questions about a ticket

[Bad324]

I really don't think that's possible.

all a plate tells them is who the bike is registered to. For them to assume that the person riding it is the registered owner is overly presumptive.

Say you're 16 and your parents own your bike. neither of them have endorsements, but that doesn't mean you can't.

My wife has an endorsement, but let's say she didn't - I could have my bike registered in her name, and that's not probable cause for them to pull me over.

That said, they can easily find a reason to pull over just about anyone. "you didn't signal 500 feet from that intersection."

I would think they can easily use the registration to get the name and then search that then. Well I figure their systems would be that capable

[Cheech]

First off, my instructors at the State class at ODOT, one of which is a Columbus cop for his day job, were very clear on the "this is not an endorsement" deal. I'm not doubting your guy said differently, but it is what it is.

That being said, go to the BMV, get your endorsement, then take that AND THE CLASS CARD (they won't take it at the BMV, you might need that to copy to your insurance to get a discount, hint hint) and plead not guilty. If you're going to mayor's court, they will (or should) ask if anyone wants their case remanded to Franklin County Municipal. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DO THIS. Once you're in FCMC, plead not guilty, get your real court date, go in EARLY and talk to the prosecutor and explain what's up. I'm willing to bet either the cop doesn't show, or the prosecutor or judge will give you a severely reduced charge or toss the entire thing.

There are 2 reasons why you want FCMC instead of the bullshit kangaroo mayor's court:

1: The cop doesn't have to show in Mayor's court. There's one badge there, and he speaks for the entire department. In real court, your accuser is there front and center.

2. Mayor's courts, IMHO, are borderline illegal. A mayor is not a judge, and there's an inherent conflict of interest with someone who is in charge of the town and its budgets also levying penalties and fines.

My only dealing with FCMC, I had a statie pull me over for a headlight out and decided that I wasn't wearing my seatbelt because I took it off immediately after I was pulled over and stopped to get my shit out. Upon telling him that, he wavered a little but still wrote the ticket. I showed up for court and he didn't.

[redkow97]

I would think they can easily use the registration to get the name and then search that then. Well I figure their systems would be that capable

I'm sure it's capable of determining whether or not the registered owner has a an endorsement, but per my example, it's not necessarily the registered owner riding the bike.

I'm by no means an expert on probable cause, but Cops can't pull someone over because they "could be" breaking the law - they have to cite some sort of behavior that shows you're breaking the law, or at least sheds some reasonable suspicion (like weaving suggests a driver has been drinking). But a cop can't just run your plate and say, "the registered owner of this vehicle is under 21 - we just want to check that you haven't been drinking."

that's what the OP is claiming here. The cop knew the registered owner wasn't supposed to be carrying passengers, so he pulled him over? There's no illegal act if it's you or me on the bike.

[flounder]

Tell them you just installed Dyna-Beads in your tires and you had to put a passenger on there to and test ride it to see if they would balance your tires since they tell you not to do it on a balancing machine.....

GLWS.

[Scruit]

I'm by no means an expert on probable cause, but Cops can't pull someone over because they "could be" breaking the law - they have to cite some sort of behavior that shows you're breaking the law, or at least sheds some reasonable suspicion (like weaving suggests a driver has been drinking).

Probable Cause is the standard for a search. Reasonable Suspicion is the standard for being pulled over. I believe it's reasonable to assume that the registered owner is the rider, especially if the gender matches. If the registered owner of the bike only has a learner's permit then it's further reasonable to suspect that a law is being broken if there is a passenger.

Reasonable Suspicion is a VERY low standard.

[redkow97]

^ that seems like a can of worms though.

"i saw smoke coming out of the car, so I pulled over this group of gentlemen to verify that it wasn't marijuana smoke."

[Likwid]

^ that seems like a can of worms though.

"i saw smoke coming out of the car, so I pulled over this group of gentlemen to verify that it wasn't marijuana smoke."

Are you arguing that's not probably cause? Probably cause has a pretty loose definition... granted you could fight probably cause in court, but when it's "Yah I had a dead body in the trunk, bu the officer didn't have the right to search" your argument becomes difficult.

[redkow97]

Are you arguing that's not probably cause? Probably cause has a pretty loose definition... granted you could fight probably cause in court, but when it's "Yah I had a dead body in the trunk, bu the officer didn't have the right to search" your argument becomes difficult.

actually, if Scruit is correct, I was arguing that that's not "reasonable suspicion."

As for the argument "becoming difficult," does it? that's exactly how evidence gets suppressed. Evidence is obtained through incorrect means, and is thus not allowed to be used against the defendant(s).

[Cheech]

Just looked up the mayor's courts, it looks like if you got popped in BG you're going to the Wood County Muni court, BG doesn't do mayor's court. Same advice applies. For some reason I thought you were in Westerville, my bad there.

[04DayTri]

If he had another reason for pulling me over he didnt say it, but the first thing he asked when i got off the bike was what my name is. So im guessing if i wasnt the owner and had a license i would have been free to go.

[Restlesswildman]

Just pay the ticket and take your lumps! The certificate from class is not an endorsement! It is possible for the Police Officer to look up your information while running your plate. The plate will return all the information on the registered owner. If the person operating the vehicle does not match the description, the Police Officer has resonable suspicion that something is not as it should be. Thus giving him cause to pull you over and ask questions. When he/she does this they are on a fishing expedition and YOU need to be the nicest person that you can be with out bribing them.

How do I know this? I have a good friend that is with one of the local PD's and is high up in the food chain. He and I have had very good talks on subjects like this. He proved this by having an on duty officer run a plate for the scout group we took to police station. It just happened to be my plate.

So when he ran your plate he knew that you were not a LEGAL operator for passengers. BTW did you happen to have your certificate from class on you? I would have pulled out my license, certificate, registration and insurance card and handed them all to him and said..." I was going to go 1st thing Monday morning! My girlfriend was all excited that I passed the class and we were just headed to the Diary Queen to celebrate."

Good luck fighting it! Let us know what the out come is!!

[chevysoldier]

When any of my plates gets run, on their screen in big red letters pops up "WANTED PERSON" When they click it it informs them I have a license to carry a concealed handgun. Just thought it was cool how their system informs the officer.

[FZRMatt]

I really don't think that's possible.

all a plate tells them is who the bike is registered to. For them to assume that the person riding it is the registered owner is overly presumptive.

Say you're 16 and your parents own your bike. neither of them have endorsements, but that doesn't mean you can't.

My wife has an endorsement, but let's say she didn't - I could have my bike registered in her name, and that's not probable cause for them to pull me over.

That said, they can easily find a reason to pull over just about anyone. "you didn't signal 500 feet from that intersection."

Actually, the plate gives us vehicle information, owner information (including physical description), license status...etc...If the information comes up and doesn't say "motorcycle endorsement", and the rider matches the general physical description, that is P.C. for an investigatory stop. He asked the rider's name because he wanted to verify that he was indeed the owner. However, it should not be no-ops as someone else stated (unless you don't have a license for a car), it should instead be a ticket for riding outside of permit restrictions. Huge difference!

FYI, it's 100 Ft, not 500 Ft

[chevysoldier]

Okay Matt. I will assume the OP was wearing a helmet. How much of a physical description are you going to get? Height and weight? Is that really enough for PC?

Edit: I am not trying to mess with you, I am curious.

[Strictly Street]

The cop suggested trying to fight it but insisted he had to still write me a ticket.

I'm thinking the cop was trying to tell you he wouldn't show if you took it to court.

Thats my two cents, take it for what it's worth.

[Cheech]

Just pay the ticket and take your lumps! The certificate from class is not an endorsement! It is possible for the Police Officer to look up your information while running your plate. The plate will return all the information on the registered owner. If the person operating the vehicle does not match the description, the Police Officer has resonable suspicion that something is not as it should be. Thus giving him cause to pull you over and ask questions. When he/she does this they are on a fishing expedition and YOU need to be the nicest person that you can be with out bribing them.

How do I know this? I have a good friend that is with one of the local PD's and is high up in the food chain. He and I have had very good talks on subjects like this. He proved this by having an on duty officer run a plate for the scout group we took to police station. It just happened to be my plate.

So when he ran your plate he knew that you were not a LEGAL operator for passengers. BTW did you happen to have your certificate from class on you? I would have pulled out my license, certificate, registration and insurance card and handed them all to him and said..." I was going to go 1st thing Monday morning! My girlfriend was all excited that I passed the class and we were just headed to the Diary Queen to celebrate."

Good luck fighting it! Let us know what the out come is!!

So you're saying that even though there are extenuating circumstances that show the kid intended to get his endorsement and not just re-upping his temps every year while willfully riding outside of the permit you would just roll over and pay the fine AND take the insurance hit? Fuck that. Sure, the kid was a bit of an idiot for not reading the card, but that doesn't mean there's not wiggle room here.

[Cheech]

I'm thinking the cop was trying to tell you he wouldn't show if you took it to court.

Thats my two cents, take it for what it's worth.

a big fat this.

[John]

Just pay the ticket and take your lumps

worst advice EVER.

[redkow97]

J I would have pulled out my license, certificate, registration and insurance card and handed them all to him and said..." I was going to go 1st thing Monday morning! My girlfriend was all excited that I passed the class and we were just headed to the Diary Queen to celebrate."

Actually, admitting that you KNEW you were wrong is the exact opposite of what you want to do.

Ignorance of the law isn't a valid defense, but admitting that you knew you were breaking the law just builds the case against you. It's an admission of guilt.

I think you're more likely to catch a break for stupidity than admitting you thought you could get away with something. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but you never want to help an officer build their case against you. If you're tagged for speeding, you can claim you didn't know how fast you were going (not admitting guilt), or you can say, "I'm sorry if I was speeding," but don't throw out a number and acknowledge the degree of your guilt. Maybe the cop didn't clock you, and is waiting for you to say 85 when he was only estimating 75.

Edited June 22, 2010 by redkow97

[chipolte_cowboy]

I had a similar situation happen about three years ago. The charges were dismissed when I showed paper work, but the court costs were still $98 (I was on the hook for a $250 fine and a license suspension). According to my lawyer, they will dismiss many traffic cases given you agree to pay "court costs". Guess it depends on which costs more

[FZRMatt]

Okay Matt. I will assume the OP was wearing a helmet. How much of a physical description are you going to get? Height and weight? Is that really enough for PC?

Edit: I am not trying to mess with you, I am curious.

Sorry that it has taken me so long to respond, I am on vacation. The physical description gives gender, height, weight, eye and hair color, and age. Between those, and the knowledge that most people riding a bike tend to ride their own, you can make a case for an investigatory stop. Have you ever had an officer pull along side of you, look at you, and then either drive on or pull in behind you and conduct a traffic stop? If you have, then you have experienced first hand them checking your physical description. I would guess that 95% of the time the officer is correct in making the stop. If they are incorrect, then the traffic stop should end immediately. However, most riders/drivers usually commit some other infraction which also gives them P.C. for a stop.

I hope this is helpful.

[TSB67]

Didn't read all five pages, but get your license before you go to court. I have seen this before and the judge dismissed the case. When I had a case "dismissed," there were no costs.

[Restlesswildman]

So you're saying that even though there are extenuating circumstances that show the kid intended to get his endorsement and not just re-upping his temps every year while willfully riding outside of the permit you would just roll over and pay the fine AND take the insurance hit? Fuck that. Sure, the kid was a bit of an idiot for not reading the card, but that doesn't mean there's not wiggle room here.

I was taught to own up when you fu$ked up...that being said wiggle room only works if you know the system or pay someone that knows the system. Would I roll over and take the hit? Depends if I had liability insurance or full coverage and how many points I had at the time.

Personally I would call the DA and ask a few questions and then call an attorney for a free consultation. By the way I avoided jail once for doing 100 MPH in a 45 and it only cost me 2 points and $500. That was 20 yrs ago and I sweated it the whole time I was at the court house. 300 miles from home, police escort to the county court house, car in someone else's name and no insurance! Luckily for me the Judge was at lunch and didn't want me to wait or deal with me. It hurt writing that check, but it was less painful than getting the car impounded and a jail cell.

I was in a shit%y mood the other night when I posted....Sorry.

So test the waters and see what the possibilities are and go from there. Worse case is you need to spend $500 on an attorney to get out of it.

[jbot]

flee to mexico. it's your only chance.

[Strictly Street]

flee to mexico. it's your only chance.

:lol: