Setting off around a corner

[Scruit]

Been riding since 04 but only have 5k miles under my belt. Now I'm commuting daily on the bike. I'm pretty confortable with most of the riding techniques, but the one thing I need to improve is setting off around a corner.

Of course at slow speeds you steer towards the turn and above 15-20mph you counter steer, right? Well, making that left turn from the red light onto the 4-lane highway requires means you pass 15mph while still turning - so you have to transition from "Steer into the turn" to "Counter steer" while you are in the corner.

Well, rather than cornering in one smooth arc I find myself making the turn in two distinct steps - the transition from low speed cornering to higher speed cornering can be pretty ugly sometimes - not smooth at all. When turning righ I've wound up crossing into the oncoming lane once or twice.

Is this something that will come only with experience, or is there a technique that I'm missing?

[kawi kid]

I just slowly transition into my lean. Hard to explain

[serpentracer]

you haven't been riding lol

shit I did more than that my first 8 months of riding.

countersteering helps the bike steer faster. you only do it to initate the lean.

you don't do it while leaned over. unless you are having to fight some junk tires.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhRydTnSDes

Edited September 11, 2010 by serpentracer

[jporter12]

I just slowly transition into my lean. Hard to explain

Well, he did back when he rode...

Now that you mention it, I don't really know! I've not paid much attention to it! I'm guessing that I just make sure I get a pretty good lean angle going as soon as I take off. I'm going to have to go for a ride later, just to see!

[jporter12]

5K miles since 04? Really? I ride about that EACH year, and I live less than 2 miles from work, and not much further from most places that I go regularly!

[kawi kid]

[hue jass]

The movements you input to the bars are very minute. You'll find that you ride much better if you do it instinctively instead of methodically. Just ride the bike. Never stop riding the bike. No matter what.

[C-bus]

You're fixating on not crossing the lane lines. Worry more about where you are looking than your steering.

[Scruit]

5K miles since 04? Really? I ride about that EACH year, and I live less than 2 miles from work, and not much further from most places that I go regularly!

I know, I know. After I got the bike the job situation for myself and my wife changed so I wound up driving my kid to and from daycare every day until he started first grade this year. My only riding was at weekends etc.

Now my kid rides the bus to school, I commute on the bike unless it's raining. I'll be riding more more in 4 months than in the last 6 years.

I guess it's just something that comes with time and practice. Think I'll head out when it dires up and get started on that.

[Scruit]

you don't do it while leaned over. unless you are having to fight some junk tires.

...or you get halfway into the corner and realize you're not leaned over enough.

And it turns out you're not leaned over enough because you started out so slow that you had to steer into the turn rather than countersteer.

I have no problem with counter-steering once I'm moving - it's trying to adjust the lean while accelerating to maintain a smooth curve that I need to practice.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Scruit

[jschaf]

I think you're thinking & analyzing way too much. Just go with the flow & don't worry about the low speed stuff. Play around with countersteering (push right go right, push left go left) until it becomes 2nd nature to you. In a turn, after an initial check for gravel etc, keep your eyes ahead as far as you can see down the road too. (Trade in the Voluisa on a proper bike)

[tyler524]

Seems like your thinking about the turn way too much before you make it or as you are making it. It took me a little bit for it to become second nature and just look through a turn and not think about it

[hue jass]

...or you get halfway into the corner and realize you're not leaned over enough.

And it turns out you're not leaned over enough because you started out so slow that you had to steer into the turn rather than countersteer.

I have no problem with counter-steering once I'm moving - it's trying to adjust the lean while accelerating to maintain a smooth curve that I need to practice.

There is no turn on a motorcycle that doesn't start with counter steering.

[kawi kid]

I will say tyler has something good there, look thru the turn makes a world of difference

[ReconRat]

Look where you want to go, and apply what you know to get there.

You probably need practice with adjusting amount of lean at slow speeds.

From a dead stop, the lean will increase as the speed increases during the turn.

The bike will almost do this by itself in a slow speed turn.

I think you've described holding the lean while trying to increase speed.

So basically I think you haven't initiated a steadily increasing amount of lean during the turn.

Yes, that will make the bike start to fall over, but not if you smoothly accelerate.

You'll have to be pointed in the right direction, even if still in the turn.

I'm pretty sure you need some slow speed parking lot practice.

I'm also pretty sure that if you followed another bike through the turn, you could do it without thinking about it.

Because your eyes would be on the other bike, and follow through.

The transition you are describing is one of the harder things for all riders to accomplish.

I'd say every one of us learns that one over again at the start of each year.

It's similar to the "what do I do" when going up and down driveway entrances at slow speeds.

Oddly enough, I sometimes find myself lowering my head and chest in that type of turn, where I slow turn to a fast turn and take off.

It seems to shift the center of gravity in a way that makes the bike enter the quick turn easier. Not sure about that one. Maybe it just increases my concentration, and I ignore the "falling over" and just hit the gas. If I watched myself, I'd probably find out I either stopped steering to cause the bike to lean, and/or was pulling the clutch in to let the bike fall into the turn, and accelerating hard.

[ReconRat]

There is no turn on a motorcycle that doesn't start with counter steering.

And this is correct. Experiments have shown that a motorcycle will barely turn without counter steering. We just don't realize we are doing it. Apparently all turns begin with counter steering, to start or set a lean, if nothing else.

edit: Regardless, there is no substitute for the ability to be smooth on a motorcycle.

[KimR]

... just look through a turn and not think about it

I agree with this. I think about pointing my chin toward the exit point. The inputs follow. Works for me.

[NinjaNick]

never thought about it, it just happens and it happens very smoothly for me. I wouldn't be good explaining unless I saw you turn.

[Scruit]

There is no turn on a motorcycle that doesn't start with counter steering.

What if you're going 5mph?

[Scruit]

I'm definitely agreeing with the advice you not over-analyze it. I guess it's like learning to juggle. Once you have the basics it's just a case of practice and more practice until it becomes second nature. If you over-think about the minute details then you lose focus on the big picture.

[kawi kid]

It never hurts to ask questions

[C-bus]

What if you're going 5mph?

Go faster ....... but seriously, give it a little gas through the turn and lean a bit.

[ReconRat]

What if you're going 5mph?

Actual studies of motion on a motorcycle appear to give data that shows at least a tiny counter steer movement in any turn. Aggressive turns and maneuvers have aggressive counter steer.

[chevysoldier]

Like Nike says, I "Just do it". Never thought about how I do it. Just read the bike and turn and make necessary adjustments.

[kawi kid]

In he motorcycle safety class they had us counter balancing during slow turns and manuvers. Slightly hang your butt off the opposite side of the turn.