End of GM 3.8l motor

[scottie.harris]

Jporter you drive alot of cars... you test drive alot or work for a dealer?

[Steve Butters]

Yea the GS is sweet as hell, but as far as the turbo 4cyl goes forced induction is harder on a motor. Still might be fast, but if i were wanting power id go get the new lacrosse super its suppose to be the "new grand national" to a sense, think they said 0-60 was like 5.6 or so...

If i were gonna get forced induction, id get the supercharged V6 GS over the new 4cyl turbo. just my preference.

proof that the 2.0T is less reliable than the 2.0 NA? that little baby turbo is not going to be hard on the motor any more than a NA car. the issue will come into the type of driving the car will see, the type of maintenance done, the cooling method used for the turbo, etc... if forced induction was harder on motors, it would not be used.

turbo diesel trucks will last forever, literally...if forced induction was so hard on them, they would not make it to a million miles like they do...or how about subarus, theyre all turbo if im not mistaken, all the new ecoboost and ecotech and ecoblahblah whatever other brands call it

you must know something that all the other car manufacturers are missing out on

[jporter12]

Jporter you drive alot of cars... you test drive alot or work for a dealer?

I repair them for a living. I don't run them all out, or anything, but occasionally we get some in from a local dealer (higher end cars) and they pretty much expect them to be tested out, and they have said to do so, as long as we don't abuse them! The G6 I referref to is my mother in laws, was in for brakes today.

[Steve Butters]

That was a bit different though, seeing how it was built! When you factor in how "driveable" it is, and fuel economy, the EFI would win. EFI is more efficient, more efficiency=more power output, up to a certain point.

i totally agree...just busting your balls a little bit...EFI>carb in every way possible...thats why all the ballers who run old school engines do EFI conversions

[Steve Butters]

judd - let me know when you get a new 5.0 stang in so i can come test it out

[scottie.harris]

A turbo forces air from the exhaust back into the motor, a supercharger uses the crank shaft to turn the compressor. Forcing air into something leads to faster wear. You are correct that how you drive, maintain, and cool is a factor, but as far is it being the same wear as an n/a ive always heard different. not saying your wrong, its just thats what ive always heard and the theory that forcing air into something wears it down faster made sense to me.

[jporter12]

proof that the 2.0T is less reliable than the 2.0 NA? that little baby turbo is not going to be hard on the motor any more than a NA car. the issue will come into the type of driving the car will see, the type of maintenance done, the cooling method used for the turbo, etc... if forced induction was harder on motors, it would not be used.

turbo diesel trucks will last forever, literally...if forced induction was so hard on them, they would not make it to a million miles like they do...or how about subarus, theyre all turbo if im not mistaken, all the new ecoboost and ecotech and ecoblahblah whatever other brands call it

you must know something that all the other car manufacturers are missing out on

Not that many Subarus are turbo'd, just FYI.

I agree with you about diesels though. Most all of them these days are tubo'd, and run hundreds of thousands of miles.

Where turbocharging becomes less reliable is when people go cranking up the boost, without making modifications to match, from just adding fuel (properly tuning) to better pistons and other reciprocating assy parts. I have noticed that diesels seem to tolerate really high boost levels better, maybe because they turn lower rpms, or they're already "over built" anyway?

[scottie.harris]

i totally agree about diesels, they're damn long lasting and built motors. They outlast most trucks, they so should make a diesel ranger, colorado, and dakota. People would buy the crap out of them.

[jporter12]

i totally agree...just busting your balls a little bit...EFI>carb in every way possible...thats why all the ballers who run old school engines do EFI conversions

Actually, when getting the max power out of a N/A small block for example, more power is often mafe with a carb, from some of the stuff I've seen.

judd - let me know when you get a new 5.0 stang in so i can come test it out

That's a maybe!

A turbo forces air from the exhaust back into the motor, a supercharger uses the crank shaft to turn the compressor. Forcing air into something leads to faster wear. You are correct that how you drive, maintain, and cool is a factor, but as far is it being the same wear as an n/a ive always heard different. not saying your wrong, its just thats what ive always heard and the theory that forcing air into something wears it down faster made sense to me.

Forced induction, at lower boost levels, such as in a stock application, is just as relaible as N/A. When done right, forced induction is pretty much the same as increasing displacement. Again I say, the problems arise when people increse boost levels too much, which raises cylinder pressures, and breaks piston ring lands. We have a WRX STI at the shop that's a victim of this, along with the turbo having come apart.

Side note: I was surprised to find out that the Syclone (turbo 4.3) engines use cast pistons. I've had to replace one. Actually, I think many stock forced induction engines have cast pistons.

[scottie.harris]

Well it sounds right, most the people that i talked to werent talking about stock turbos. I have a friend with an RX8 who wants more power, but said he refuses to turbo it for this reason.

[jporter12]

i totally agree about diesels, they're damn long lasting and built motors. They outlast most trucks, they so should make a diesel ranger, colorado, and dakota.

They did, S-10 and Ranger.

People would buy the crap out of them.

They didn't.

I'm pretty sure that the EPA regs are a big reason we don't see many small diesels.

[jporter12]

Well it sounds right, most the people that i talked to werent talking about stock turbos. I have a friend with an RX8 who wants more power, but said he refuses to turbo it for this reason.

Rotary's are awesome! They just don't last long. Mazda had a big problem with the first couple years of RX-8's!

The last coupe years of RX-7's that were turbo'd were nice! Very smooth, high revving...

[scottie.harris]

They did? Never hear about that, i knew mercedes and volkswagen made small diesels.

Yea i told him to get an RX7, but he uses his RX8 as a daily driver and put an ugly pburg steelers emblem on the back window. He likes it though so guess thats what matters.

[jporter12]

They did? Never hear about that, i knew mercedes and volkswagen made small diesels.

Oh yeah, there was some "interesting" stuff happening with diesel in the early to mid 80's! GM took a couple gas engines and modified them to turn them into diesels. The Olds 350 diesels, and they did it with a v-6 as well. They were not very good, really. Ok, they were junk, bad idea!

GM's small truck diesel was an Isuzu engine, the Ford was a Perkins/Mazda, then later a Mitsubishi.

Yea i told him to get an RX7, but he uses his RX8 as a daily driver and put an ugly pburg steelers emblem on the back window. He likes it though so guess thats what matters.

Yup, to each their own.

[jporter12]

The VW TDI, at least from the late 90's on is awesome! Not overly powerful, but the fuel mileage and reliability is great!

[RSVDon]

A turbo forces air from the exhaust back into the motor, a supercharger uses the crank shaft to turn the compressor. Forcing air into something leads to faster wear. You are correct that how you drive, maintain, and cool is a factor, but as far is it being the same wear as an n/a ive always heard different. not saying your wrong, its just thats what ive always heard and the theory that forcing air into something wears it down faster made sense to me.

Um. No.

Factory forced induction applications are designed with requirements for the added stresses applied by forced induction. Using any kind of compressor will raise the compression ratio depending on how much air you are forcing in. This is why you see factory FI cars with lower compression ratios. This is to relieve the cylinder pressures and still see a nice big burn from that upped density of air.

The entire rotating assembly and cylinder block are designed with extra ribbing and larger/strengthened parts to account for these increased pressures. Usually these engines use forged crank/rods/pistons and other heavy duty parts.

I could go on forever. But the point is with a factory forced induction car, given proper maintenance, you should see it last the same as an N/A engine.

The only time where you get extra wear is when you take an N/A engine not designed for the added stress of turbo/supercharging and throw a bunch of air into it. (Rotaries excluded, that's a whole different ballgame)

[DTM Brian]

A turbo forces air from the exhaust back into the motor, a supercharger uses the crank shaft to turn the compressor. Forcing air into something leads to faster wear. You are correct that how you drive, maintain, and cool is a factor, but as far is it being the same wear as an n/a ive always heard different. not saying your wrong, its just thats what ive always heard and the theory that forcing air into something wears it down faster made sense to me.

:nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono:

Scottie you have ALOT to learn about turbocharging and supercharging. My brain hurts now after reading this post and I think I will get a gun and blow my head off now..

Just sayin.....

Wikipedia and Google should be your new favorites so you can do your research on the topic being discussed here.

Oh and as far as my expertise in the area. I have been tuning both turbocharged and supercharged cars for the last 10 years. 4 of those years included 100+ 3800's with power levels anywhere from 150 whp to over 1000 whp.

Once again....

Just sayin..

[Hutch]

Scottie you ever think of putting turbo on the katana and maybe some Nas I bet it would do 140+ through the straight coshocton roads.......maybe lol....

[jporter12]

4 of those years included 100+ 3800's with power levels anywhere from 150 whp to over 1000 whp.

I think one of our customers ended up with one of the cars that you had tuned, a Lesabre T-type with the L67 swap. That thing ran well! This was back before I knew who DTM was. We had done a L67 swap for the same customer in another T-type and left it "stock", then he bought this one that was already done. They were both fun cars!

[RSVDon]

My brain hurts now after reading this post and I think I will get a gun and blow my head off now...

[DTM Brian]

I think one of our customers ended up with one of the cars that you had tuned, a Lesabre T-type with the L67 swap. That thing ran well! This was back before I knew who DTM was. We had done a L67 swap for the same customer in another T-type and left it "stock", then he bought this one that was already done. They were both fun cars!

Yup I know the guy.

That was several years ago.

[ohdaho]

i totally agree about diesels, they're damn long lasting and built motors. They outlast most trucks, they so should make a diesel ranger, colorado, and dakota. People would buy the crap out of them.

Hahaha... business management isnt your forte huh?

[RSVDon]

Wanna' diesel? Buy it from the Europeans. A diesel is useless w/out a turbo charger shuffled into the mix. Not really sure why the big 3 just can't get their heads around that?

Way too stringent US emissions regulations regarding NOx coupled with the fact that diesel currently costs more $$$ (even though it takes less effort to refine)

[scottie.harris]

hutch if i tried to turbo my katana, it would probably blow up.I have seen a 600cc bike turbo'd but i dont think the katana is a contender.

[jporter12]

I'm not disparaging the GM 3.8(fwd). It's a fine engine. I just don't understand the love for it and the hate for the VQ. The VQ will wipe the pavement with the GM 3.8.

Are you sure you're not yerrow Pauly?

I'm not hating on the VQ' date=' just not making out with it. I'm not all that fond of many of the newer American engines, either. I have a Ford Duratec partially apart (in a Mazda 6) that I'm not liking on much, either. Unfortunately, in this day and age, I doubt we see engine designs that run for several decades any more, since technology is advancing much faster.

Way too stringent US emissions regulations regarding NOx coupled with the fact that diesel currently costs more $$$ (even though it takes less effort to refine)

^^^This. Along with particulate emissions restrictions. The euro's have diesels down pat (as Pauly was saying) such as VW, and Benz. Even BMW is getting further into the diesel game. Look at the Audi LeMans Prototype cars!

hutch if i tried to turbo my katana, it would probably blow up.I have seen a 600cc bike turbo'd but i dont think the katana is a contender.

The boy's starting to learn!