Disclaimer Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 AWD motorcycles are about to get realVia hellforleathermagazine: http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2011/02/awd-motorcycles-are-about-to-get-real/For years the maker of custom all-wheel drive conversions, Christini is launching its own brand of production bikes. Two models will be assembled in the company’s Philadelphia facility for sale as 2012 models and it’s kinda hard to not be overwhelmed by awesome reading the spec sheets. In addition to a $6,895 four-stroke 450, there’ll be an $8,995 two-stroke 300 too. Affordable prices, AWD, high-end components and American assembly? Win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 So how exactly is the bike suppose to work with AWD? Whats the production model look like and the AWD setup?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 That pic is the AWD model. Did you read the article? Besides' date=' that's only 2WD. It'll never beat my Subaru![/quote']Yea I read the short article I was just expecting a drive chain of some sort attached to the front wheel. Need a breakdown As to how it works exactly thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I prefer the hydraulic setup over the mechanical ones, but that's because I'm lazy when it comes to wanting to maintain the system.http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/2010/04/01/how-two-wheel-drive-motorcycles-work-using-hydraulics-to-drive-the-front-wheel-of-a-motorcycle/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Yeah, either chain/shaft or hydraulics. Yamaha 2-Trac AWD system has been in development for way too long. KTM has a prototype. And Subaru wants to offer motorcycles and AWD motorcycles. What's the world coming to...On the other hand, Germany had it back in WW2...(ok, that's cheating... it was a driven side car wheel in the back...) Edited February 24, 2011 by ReconRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponyjr Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Those prices are very reasonable, those have always been ver cool bikes. Glad to see that they stuck in there long enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Pretty old technology and the technology was even tried at racing. Heavy and the handling is very awkward from what has been mentioned.Try scrubbing a jump with that thing, by the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 ...tests on an R1 1000cc supersport road bike have shown an incredible speed differential on wet tarmac - tests at the tight Swedish Karlskoga roadracing circuit showed the 2-trac-fitted R1 to offer a whopping five second per lap advantage over a standard machine when the circuit was wet.http://www.gizmag.com/go/3180/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beegreenstrings Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 As a engineering guy; does anyone have a schematic on this... I want to see how they are going to make this work?Are they going to run shaft drive inside the frame to the neck then down to the wheel beside the forks?Would you really want a AWD bike? Again its a bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Pretty old technology and the technology was even tried at racing. Heavy and the handling is very awkward from what has been mentioned.Try scrubbing a jump with that thing, by the way...They placed second in endurocross this year, guess that means something.As a engineering guy; does anyone have a schematic on this... I want to see how they are going to make this work?Are they going to run shaft drive inside the frame to the neck then down to the wheel beside the forks?Would you really want a AWD bike? Again its a bike.http://www.christini.com/awd-technology.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 What I want to know is how are they taking an $8,000 crf450, adding FWD, and then selling it for $6995?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 so no burnouts on this thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 They placed second in endurocross this year, guess that means something.http://www.christini.com/awd-technology.phpEndurocross is night and day vs MX/SX. Point is that the SX bikes need to be VERY agile while in endurocross, the ability to get through really tough obstacles makes this work. Better at times, I guess...Again, same with the R1. In the wet, sure. Traction and such makes sense. But, in the dry when handling reigns supreme, it isn't going to run as well... Two wheels turning is going to create issues with the gyroscopic effect that motorcycles deal with.Trust me, if it were something that had a premium advantage, do you not think the Big 4 would have these in use by now? It's not new tech and it is still similar if not the exact same as it has been for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 What I want to know is how are they taking an $8,000 crf450, adding FWD, and then selling it for $6995??They are not taking 2011s from Honda and rebuilding them. They are left over units from when Honda was retailing them at $4500. They would have been getting them at dealer cost, as well I assume. So, the increase is pretty big. The best bet is to buy a conversion kit vs a whole bike...That way, you can utilize your current platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadyone Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Endurocross is night and day vs MX/SX. Point is that the SX bikes need to be VERY agile while in endurocross, the ability to get through really tough obstacles makes this work. Better at times, I guess...Again, same with the R1. In the wet, sure. Traction and such makes sense. But, in the dry when handling reigns supreme, it isn't going to run as well... Two wheels turning is going to create issues with the gyroscopic effect that motorcycles deal with.Trust me, if it were something that had a premium advantage, do you not think the Big 4 would have these in use by now? It's not new tech and it is still similar if not the exact same as it has been for years.I may be wrong or seeing your point differently but my motorcycle turns both wheels just one is powered. but i dont see how the gyroscopic effect change with powering the front...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Endurocross is night and day vs MX/SX. Point is that the SX bikes need to be VERY agile while in endurocross, the ability to get through really tough obstacles makes this work. Better at times, I guess...Who said this was for motocross? It clearly isn't.It's meant for woods and enduro challenges. It also has an off switch so you can choose when it's helping you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I may be wrong or seeing your point differently but my motorcycle turns both wheels just one is powered. but i dont see how the gyroscopic effect change with powering the front...?From what I've read, it's actually the torque steer of the power train that takes some getting used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Who said this was for motocross? It clearly isn't.It's meant for woods and enduro challenges. It also has an off switch so you can choose when it's helping you.I understand what you meant, but I was also using MX/SX as an example of why these aren't going to be good choices.In sloppy conditions and in challenging terrain, yes. This bike will work well. But even at the National Enduro level, it is going to be tough to compete against the rwd bikes for agility and weight. That front whether on or off is heavy and it is loading the front. That changes the way it handles for sure and in aggressive switchbacks and similar, it is going to handle much differently.As for GNCC, well... I would say it doesn't stand up very well as GNCC is getting to the point that they are training by riding MX it is getting that fast. This bike isn't going to stack up well against that type of environment... Edited February 24, 2011 by Desmo-Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I may be wrong or seeing your point differently but my motorcycle turns both wheels just one is powered. but i dont see how the gyroscopic effect change with powering the front...?The idea is that the front wheel is driving when engaged. This BS that you can switch it off is fine, but the idea of buying this type of bike is for 2 wd. That means the front wheel is turning and causing motion that conflicts with the gyroscopic effect that occurs on a regular motorcycle - wants to stand up all the time...As mentioned, the handling will take some getting used to, but all in all, it will certainly have advantages in some cases depending on conditions, etc., but when you compare it to a lighter, more agile version of the same class of bike to compete against, light and agile will win more times than not.Same on the R1. I can promise you that if the front is driving, it is going to cause a change in the way that bike handles. I also know that if you add weight up front, good luck getting that thing turned in a chicane, etc. It just doesn't make enough good sense to change over. Again... This would be on every bike if it made perfect sense. It's been around long enough that the companies would have adopted it if it was better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 It only adds 15lbs and how can you argue the agility point? You don't finish 2nd in endurocross if the bike isn't agile.You make valid points as to where the bike won't be better than a regular bike, but again those places aren't where this thing is meant to perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 And to counterpoint the gyroscope comment:An offroad bike is usually vertical when it's going fast. Not exactly a lotta long sweepers in offroad racing. So yes, the bike will have a different feel in some situations, but it's not like the fwd is going to completely change how the bike rides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 It only adds 15lbs and how can you argue the agility point? You don't finish 2nd in endurocross if the bike isn't agile.You make valid points as to where the bike won't be better than a regular bike, but again those places aren't where this thing is meant to perform.Enduro cross has obstacles that are not speed sensitive. You went from GNCC, Enduros, etc to just Endurocross. EC is completely different than National Enduros. Again, 15lbs is a lot on the front. Don't think so? Hold 15 lbs on your hand and extend your arm out parallel to the ground for 30 minutes...Now, take a National Enduro and add 15 lbs to a bike you have to steer left and right a ton through trees. That 15 lbs is a shit load.Your idea of 15 lbs not being much would mean that guys should ditch 2 strokes for 4 strokes as even though the 4 strokes are 15 lbs heavier, they are more powerful... That's not the case. Now, 4 strokes are getting lighter and thus, become a choice vs 2 strokes.Point is that until you race and remove or add 15 lbs, you are never going to understand why 15 lbs is a lot. Especially on the front. Centralized would be different. This isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 And to counterpoint the gyroscope comment:An offroad bike is usually vertical when it's going fast. Not exactly a lotta long sweepers in offroad racing. So yes, the bike will have a different feel in some situations, but it's not like the fwd is going to completely change how the bike rides.Off road racing of all the 2 wheel sports is more back and forth with switchbacks than anything else. In a National Enduro, if you think they are always vertical, you haven't been at any to actually see how often they are turning the bikes. The gyroscopic effect makes the bike WANT to be up and down straight. You essentially are forcing the bike at speed to turn left and right by leaning it side to side.And, if you don't think front wheels driving is going to change the handling, ever driven an all wheel drive car vs a rear wheel and vs a front wheel drive car? All drive differently.I understand you want to support this thing and I appreciate the debate, but in reality, what you've brought up are points that are simply not true. There is a handling difference, there is a change in the gyroscopic effect, there is a weight penalty, and the bike is going to get handed losses against rear wheel drive machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 You do realize that all the added weight isn't on the front of the bike, yes?And that the front wheel only gets power when it skids or the rear spins, right?YOU said the bike wasn't agile and I gave you a specific example where this bike excelled in an agility contest. Quit trying to use different examples to disprove my point. I didn't say enduros were all vertical, I said that the bikes were not going fast while TURNING therefore negating the gyroscopic effect. Yes, you will feel the extra weight when tossing the bike side to side, I never said otherwise, but you seem only capable of seeing the negatives of this bike and I really can't understand your vehement responses. Or are Christini and your precious KTM no longer friends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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