UC Davis Pepper Spray - What Really Happened

[Cheech]

What is the definition of "peaceful" though? What's the "line"?

I'm not familiar with what happened at that protest but am aware of the case you cited.

Does the crowd saying "Fuck the police", "we'll let you leave if...", "don't shoot students (your children)", etc when the police are surrounded and are out numbered make it justifiable? It would only take one person to throw a punch and it would turn into a very dangerous riot. Not to mention they all got numerous warnings and the police were armed with riot batons and spray. Would you rather be sprayed or see the business end of a baton? The totality of the circumstances makes me believe the option of using OC spray was a better option than going hands on with force and escalating it all.

Had the protest not surrounded the LEOs and not used threatening words, I would agree with you they should have left without using OC spray. If of course what I have seen on video matches the testimony from the LE and their chain of command, the protesters and the school. I'm not privy to that information.

I think the point here is that there wasn't any physical provocation. I'm seeing a lot of "well, what if the crowd did this physical act or that physical act." They didn't, they just sat there. There was no threat of physical violence, no getting in cops faces, just a bunch of people sitting down in silent protest to the unconstitutional arrest and detainment of their fellow students. Don't make this out to be something that it's not by throwing in a bunch of hypothetical situations and basing your arguments on that instead of what actually took place.

[jblosser]

The officers were there to lawfully remove people who had illegally "taken up residence".

Some of the "residents" refused the lawful order to leave and were subsequently attested.

The protestors seen in the video evidently dont agree with either the eviction of the trespassers and/or the lawfulness of that order.

"Fuck the police", "we'll let you go if..." is NOT a peaceful protest. That (imho) is an implied threat to the officers' well-being.

Force continuum:

Edited December 16, 2011 by jblosser
clarity

[chevysoldier]

I think the point here is that there wasn't any physical provocation. I'm seeing a lot of "well, what if the crowd did this physical act or that physical act." They didn't, they just sat there. There was no threat of physical violence, no getting in cops faces, just a bunch of people sitting down in silent protest to the unconstitutional arrest and detainment of their fellow students. Don't make this out to be something that it's not by throwing in a bunch of hypothetical situations and basing your arguments on that instead of what actually took place.

lol, really? They didn't just sit there. They purposely blocked the escape route for the police. That in and of itself is aggression.

You go grab some of your buddies , find a couple of cops in public that you outnumber and surround them. Let me know how that works out for you and how long you spend behind bars. I mean you have the right to be there right? Oh but never mind you are keeping them against their will....

Now go let a group of people to surround you chanting "fuck you", "we'll let you leave if..." and see what you think.

This is EXACTLY why instances like this are judged from the perspective of a reasonable OFFICER and not a PERSON.

Edited December 16, 2011 by chevysoldier

[jbot]

i'm trying to decide if this is akin to civil disobedience or bordering on full retard temper tantrum.

on one hand, i really like that there was/is some large group energizing change to the "system" or at least trying. on the other hand, some of these demands are redonkulous and clearly formulated from the depths of some childish non-realistic view of how the world works and how it should work FOR THEM.

[jblosser]

Current U.C. Davis tuition:

In-state resident, a hair over $15k/year

Non-resident, $38k/year (more than Harvard, fwiw).

Sooooo, the taxpayers of (broke) Kalifornia are already subsidizing the hippies to the tune of $23k/year for each of the ungrateful little shits.

What were they complaining about again?

[John]

lol, really? They didn't just sit there. They purposely blocked the escape route for the police. That in and of itself is aggression.

You go grab some of your buddies , find a couple of cops in public that you outnumber and surround them. Let me know how that works out for you and how long you spend behind bars. I mean you have the right to be there right? Oh but never mind you are keeping them against their will....

Now go let a group of people to surround you chanting "fuck you", "we'll let you leave if..." and see what you think.

This is EXACTLY why instances like this are judged from the perspective of a reasonable OFFICER and not a PERSON.

lol keeping them against their will. that is total BS. the cops could have EASILY left at any time. there is no fucking way that a group of unarmed kids sitting on the ground, can keep a group of trained and armed police officers captive. its just not happening and you and i both know it.

the "oh we felt like were were being held captive" is just the BS justification they give for what they did.

sorta like when a cop knows he has no PC to search a car so he says "oh sure smells like weed in here" and does it anyway. its just BS you give to justify your shitty actions.

the other part you posted earlier about cops are forced to make split second decisions. you're absolutely correct about that. however that doesnt seem to relate to this. its not like this was a split second decision in the midst of a fight or something. the dude casually sauntered up and did it like it aint no thing.