Bad324 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 so what are we saying here? that there shouldn't be a penalty because there are many other ways you can kill someone driving? im not clear.I'm saying that how do you penalize someone for texting/calling while driving if I'm simply changing the song on my Iphone that is plugged into my stereo?Or on the flip side, how do you NOT penalize someone say using Facebook while driving if all the cop has to do is look at your recent calls or texts. Hell that even spawns the fact that you can delete either of those logs before the cop gets out of his car. So this goes back to guilty until proven innocent because if he says welll i saw you texting and you deleted the evidence so im taking you in and we will subpoena the phone records from the company. You then get detained and go through all the motions until the phone records show there was no call or text and you weren't lying, you were just changing the song on your iphone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 yeah, i drive fine when im drunk... just because some dumbass drank too much and ran over a kid, why shouldnt i be able to tie one on and drive around?See and thats the problem with this type of debate, you can pretty much do this sort of thing with anything to make it suit your side of the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 duh I'm an idiot, I used an actualy emergency. I'm selfish, I shouldn't have to pull over to answer my phone and disrupt my travels as I'm also impatient. Like chevy said, its akin to me not being able to have my CHL because some other licensed idiot shot themselves in the foot. Don't take away my liberties because everyone else is blubbering fucking idiotAnd that, sir, is EXACTLY the problem. You may be joking, but most aren't. Most truly are that way. God forbid they take a couple minutes out of their day to look out for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yes - it needs to be like DUI. It impairs the average person's driving to the same extent.Strang that you would argue that you can drive just fine while talking on the phone... Two retorts...1) How does the police office tell who is ok to drive while on the phone and who is not? He must observe evidence of distration? That's what we have now, and it doesn't work..Because no cop has ever pulled someone over for simply leaving a bar, and saying later that they were "weaving". Dashcam video? Yeah, that for some reason wasn't working that night, so sorry."It doesn't work" is the understatement of the fucking year. I see just as many cops on cellphones and texting while driving as I've seen other drivers. Should there be some sort of regulation? Yes, handsfree use of phones only. You can use GPS or anything else in a dock mounted to the windshield or on the dash. Enforcement of this is a completely different story, I really can't see how cops would be able to enforce this if they can't even uniformly enforce DUI's.As for the penalties? Double the fines for speeding. Each penalty is $300 bucks. No possible jail time, no completely fucked civil forfeiture laws, just a fine that will make you think twice about doing it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Because no cop has ever pulled someone over for simply leaving a bar, and saying later that they were "weaving". Dashcam video? Yeah, that for some reason wasn't working that night, so sorry."It doesn't work" is the understatement of the fucking year. I see just as many cops on cellphones and texting while driving as I've seen other drivers. Should there be some sort of regulation? Yes, handsfree use of phones only. You can use GPS or anything else in a dock mounted to the windshield or on the dash. Enforcement of this is a completely different story, I really can't see how cops would be able to enforce this if they can't even uniformly enforce DUI's.As for the penalties? Double the fines for speeding. Each penalty is $300 bucks. No possible jail time, no completely fucked civil forfeiture laws, just a fine that will make you think twice about doing it again.$300 for you or I makes us think twice. $300 for others might ruin them, and for others may be pocket change. Jail time and license suspension sucks for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Because no cop has ever pulled someone over for simply leaving a bar, and saying later that they were "weaving". Dashcam video? Yeah, that for some reason wasn't working that night, so sorry."It doesn't work" is the understatement of the fucking year. I see just as many cops on cellphones and texting while driving as I've seen other drivers. Should there be some sort of regulation? Yes, handsfree use of phones only. You can use GPS or anything else in a dock mounted to the windshield or on the dash. Enforcement of this is a completely different story, I really can't see how cops would be able to enforce this if they can't even uniformly enforce DUI's.As for the penalties? Double the fines for speeding. Each penalty is $300 bucks. No possible jail time, no completely fucked civil forfeiture laws, just a fine that will make you think twice about doing it again.damnit I can't rep you, because once again its an amazing reply!First paragraph especially, had a friend that happened to and luckily he ended up eventually winning his case and not getting a DUI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 For the sake of argument and I haven't read much in this thread....Just like no guns signs keep you from getting shot and OVI laws keep you from getting hit by a drunk driver?just wanna go ahead and make sure this extremely valid point isn't lost, especially with a bunch of gun lovers in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 just wanna go ahead and make sure this extremely valid point isn't lost, especially with a bunch of gun lovers in this thread I don't feel like retyping it.I don't see no gun signs and DUI laws anywhere near resembling each other. DUI laws aren't necessarily to protect me from drunk drivers. They're to punish those who decide to drive drunk. Police arresting drunk drivers are supposed to be protecting me from them. That's an entirely different argument. No gun signs were a legal necessity to get the concealed carry law passed. Now that it's been around and folks are realizing it hasn't caused anymore crime, they're slowly removing the restrictions (IE: public lands, parks, etc). It was a compromise to get bipartisan support for the bill. I can't knock them for that. It got the law passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I'm saying that how do you penalize someone for texting/calling while driving if I'm simply changing the song on my Iphone that is plugged into my stereo?Or on the flip side, how do you NOT penalize someone say using Facebook while driving if all the cop has to do is look at your recent calls or texts. Hell that even spawns the fact that you can delete either of those logs before the cop gets out of his car. So this goes back to guilty until proven innocent because if he says welll i saw you texting and you deleted the evidence so im taking you in and we will subpoena the phone records from the company. You then get detained and go through all the motions until the phone records show there was no call or text and you weren't lying, you were just changing the song on your iphonei understand what you're saying... it would all really depend on exactly how the law was worded... the law doesnt even exist, so its all hypothetical at this point, and im sure these kind of issues would be brought up.if the law was written to say its illegal to use a handheld cell phone (or any electronic device with a display... this covers your ipod too) in any capacity while driving, then it doesnt matter if you're texting, looking up a number, calling your gf, or posting to FB... if you're doing it while you're driving then you are in violation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) I don't feel like retyping it.ah I missed that reply but its my opinion that the parallels are much more than you would suggest. My brain is too underdeveloped however to type a rebuttal that makes any sense. I've been trying and editing and everything comes out as nonsensical garbage So I'll just stick to saying its an opinion Edited December 13, 2011 by Bad324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 i understand what you're saying... it would all really depend on exactly how the law was worded... the law doesnt even exist, so its all hypothetical at this point, and im sure these kind of issues would be brought up.if the law was written to say its illegal to use a handheld cell phone (or any electronic device with a display... this covers your ipod too) in any capacity while driving, then it doesnt matter if you're texting, looking up a number, calling your gf, or posting to FB... if you're doing it while you're driving then you are in violation.and thats why I have an issue with the suggestion that penalties should be as stiff as a DUI. Clearly we are all speculating and giving opinions which is great because in my opinion it brings tons of real world issues to light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 $300 for you or I makes us think twice. $300 for others might ruin them, and for others may be pocket change. Jail time and license suspension sucks for all.Fair point. Institute progressive fines like (OMGWTFBBQSOCIALIST!) Sweden that are based off yearly income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Fair point. Institute progressive fines like (OMGWTFBBQSOCIALIST!) Sweden that are based off yearly income.the first thing is to stop setting the speed limits artificially low as a means of revenue generation.then we can talk about changing penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 the first thing is to stop setting the speed limits artificially low as a means of revenue generation.then we can talk about changing penalties.Now we're talking about two different things. Speed limits/enforcement is a completely separate argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Fair point. Institute progressive fines like (OMGWTFBBQSOCIALIST!) Sweden that are based off yearly income.I wouldn't say tiered fines are socialist. If so, then you're saying taxing the rich more than the poor is socialism. Uh oh... circlejerk is coming full circle. Seriously though, I love how Germany does it, with fines based on income so it hurts everyone proportionally the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I wouldn't say tiered fines are socialist. If so, then you're saying taxing the rich more than the poor is socialism. Uh oh... circlejerk is coming full circle. Seriously though, I love how Germany does it, with fines based on income so it hurts everyone proportionally the same.My observations have been whenever I bring up the policies of advanced European countries, and even moreso the Nordic countries, the socalist! term gets thrown out there. I was just trying to be a little proactive and get to the derp before anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 In the UK you cannot interact with any handheld electronic device while driving. Ipod, ipad, phone, GPS or anything that requires you to devote a hand to it's use.You can't program GPS while driving. You can't update your FB status complaining about other cars driving like idiots, while driving.You CAN answer or make phone calls as long you are not interacting with a handheld device. So cars with integrated bluetooths or visor/dash/ear-mountedhandsree devices are all good. Voice dialling is ok, dialling by hand is not.So if you're worried about an emergency that can't wait until you pull over, buy a handsfree device.My only beef with that is that I think you SHOULD be able to interact with an electronic device while stopped at a red light or waiting for a train, etc. Current law requires you pull out of the traffic flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wantahertzdonut Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 We have cars that pick up phones and run them through the car's stereo. I'm sure it's just as easy to make the phone recognize where it is and disable the call/text functions while the car is in gear, unless it's hooked to a hands-free unit/bluetooth.ORHave a phone endorsement on your license. It'll be another portion of the driver's test. Many say they can talk/text while driving, but few really can. This will be their chance to prove it. It can also be revoked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphy Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security - Benjamin Franklinthis gives the cops just one more way to pull anyone they want over by simply saying "I thought they where on the phone" So while we are are it we should pass these lawsEating or drinking (soda or water) while driving - 12months or $1200changing the radio station - 3 months or $300Singing along with radio - 6months or $600Changing your clothes - 12months or $1200picking your nose - 3 months or $300setting your GPS - 6months or $600Bad drivers are going to be bad drivers, and no matter how many laws we pass they are still going to be bad drivers. Passing a law is nothing but lip service. And to the "pull over" people, think about how dangerous that is. How many videos have we seen where cars stopped by the cops get clipped. Then think of what it will be like when they try to continue on. Hell people in Ohio can't get on the highway correctly at the ramp where they should know how to get on, how crazy will it be when people will be entering the traffic from any point on the road.Better idea, make people retake the written test every 10 years, and make the test harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 this gives the cops just one more way to pull anyone they want over by simply saying "I thought they where on the phone" So while we are are it we should pass these lawsEating or drinking (soda or water) while driving - 12months or $1200changing the radio station - 3 months or $300Singing along with radio - 6months or $600Changing your clothes - 12months or $1200picking your nose - 3 months or $300setting your GPS - 6months or $600Bad drivers are going to be bad drivers, and no matter how many laws we pass they are still going to be bad drivers. Passing a law is nothing but lip service. And to the "pull over" people, think about how dangerous that is. How many videos have we seen where cars stopped by the cops get clipped. Then think of what it will be like when they try to continue on. Hell people in Ohio can't get on the highway correctly at the ramp where they should know how to get on, how crazy will it be when people will be entering the traffic from any point on the road.Better idea, make people retake the written test every 10 years, and make the test harder.So, let's let anyone who wants drive drunk, drive without licenses, etc. I mean, making everyone have a license and retake their test every ten years just gives cops a reason to randomly pull people over to check their license status. You know, because driving totally has to do with liberties, freedoms, and rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphy Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 So, let's let anyone who wants drive drunk, drive without licenses, etc. I mean, making everyone have a license and retake their test every ten years just gives cops a reason to randomly pull people over to check their license status. You know, because driving totally has to do with liberties, freedoms, and rights. people already drive drunk all the time and hell some even drive drunk without a license, that card is not magical. And as far as the retesting, the point of that is:It will help remind people what the laws areKeep people more current on what laws have changedmaybe get idiots off the road because they fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Eating or drinking (soda or water) while driving - 6pt ticket, 12 month suspension, $500 in fines, 2 day driving program, impounded vehiclechanging the radio station - 6pt ticket, 12 month suspension, $500 in fines, 2 day driving program, impounded vehicleSinging along with radio - 6pt ticket, 12 month suspension, $500 in fines, 2 day driving program, impounded vehicleChanging your clothes - 6pt ticket, 12 month suspension, $500 in fines, 2 day driving program, impounded vehiclepicking your nose - 6pt ticket, 12 month suspension, $500 in fines, 2 day driving program, impounded vehiclesetting your GPS - 6pt ticket, 12 month suspension, $500 in fines, 2 day driving program, impounded vehiclefixed to fit into Ben's grand scheme of improving the countrymaking everyone have a license and retake their test every ten years just gives cops a reason to randomly pull people over to check their license statuslicense status is tied to plate...you wouldnt be "randomly" pulled over, cops are so lazy about that shit now they use scanners to check plates - if the plates are valid, nobody cares about pulling you over to check the driver status - unless given another reason to....you know, pretty much the same as it is nowlook familiar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 people already drive drunk all the time and hell some even drive drunk without a license, that card is not magical. And as far as the retesting, the point of that is:It will help remind people what the laws areKeep people more current on what laws have changedmaybe get idiots off the road because they fail.So how are those laws that you are for any better than this law banning using cellphones and driving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 license status is tied to plate...you wouldnt be "randomly" pulled over, cops are so lazy about that shit now they use scanners to check plates - if the plates are valid, nobody cares about pulling you over to check the driver status - unless given another reason to....you know, pretty much the same as it is nowlook familiar?The only vehicle in my name is my bike. Now what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 The only vehicle in my name is my bike. Now what?License status is tied to plate...you wouldnt be "randomly" pulled over, cops are so lazy about that shit now they use scanners to check plates - if the plates are valid, nobody cares about pulling you over to check the driver status - unless given another reason to....you know, pretty much the same as it is now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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