kiggy74 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) That is the dumbest post I've ever read.... you obviously have no clue about gun lawsFuck you very much, and just because we don't agree doesn't make me dumb or ignorant. I'm not reading this, however the best way to promote your cause is to speak with people who are on the fence about the issue and educate them. The original posters plan to act like dicks and get a bunch of goofballs to open carry in McDonalds puts the cause back several steps. That McDonalds doesn't want guns in there so what go to another establishment.Exactly.I would argue to I am preventing criminal acts against me by open carrying. Is someone going to try and steal my wallet or attack me if they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am armed? No most criminals want an easy unarmed target like well you.Again, openly carrying a gun is not a shield. You're telling me that someone can't walk up behind you and take that gun? By carrying it openly you are making yourself a target to some criminals that think they are a bigger bad ass than you.By the way, none of your arguments make open carry a better option than concealed carry.And I'm not an easy unarmed target, but if I'm carrying you won't know it.I don't carry open either. But I'm not against it. If you dress nice and.don't looked like the scary Guy with a gun you are helping and not hurting. But if you open carry and you are wearing a wife beater with tattoos from your neck to your wrist you are probably hurting the cause more than helping. Open carry is about turning back the misconceptions that anyone with a gun is up to no good. Its about reintroducing the normalcy of having a firearm in public. We are winning the fight.So only clean people can open carry? So how's that going to work, and who decides who's clean? Where does it end, should only white people be allowed to open carry? Open carry such as is described by the OP ignores the fact that people that don't have guns and don't like guns also have a right to not want them on their establishments. You are a target just because you have something of value on your person, so you would advise against wearing a watch or jewelry?Any self-defense expert will tell you that by openly displaying items of value you are making yourself a target. Now think of the criminal that has a need for a weapon and thinks you look like an easy target. If you are truly interested in preventing a crime then you will take simple steps to prevent the crime from occuring in the first place.Nice theory without any proof but yeah I bet it could happen. Let's see if I can speculate about things as well. Criminals will stay away from someone open carrying to avoid the chance of failure. Criminals pick victims based on chance of success most people who appear to have the means or desire to fight back are avoided.Again, nice theory without any supporting evidence. You can be charged with inducing panic behaving in a lawful manor. You could induce panic showing up all thugged out walking while black in some rich lily white neighborhood but you're not getting charge with it.Then show me the proof that open carry prevents crime. You can't, because there isn't any. Just assumptions that if you are walking around with a gun on your hip people aren't going to F with you. You are making assumptions based on your perception of common sense. Criminals aren't common, and they rarely make any sense. Just because you're wearing again doesn't mean they will be afraid to try to take you out. Who is going to shoot these people if there are no firearms permitted? A trained L.E.O. that knows the law or someone else carrying that thinks they should be the only one. You appear to be living in some fantasy world imagining situations that could happen when there is plenty of antidotal evidence to prove otherwise.The fantasy land is you guys thinking if you're openly displaying a gun on your belt in public that you are immune to violent crimes committed against you. I'm saying that such assumptions are false, and you should consider whether or not you are making yourself an opportunity. What makes you think that the criminals that might want your openly displayed gun don't have guns already? I don't want to take the chance of getting shot just because someone wants to steal my gun. When the gun is concealed, I don't have to worry about.I got lots of gun, I carried CONCEALED all the time. I believe that people should be allowed to own and carry guns. But the only time anyone should see my personal protection weapon is if I feel that my life or the life of someone else is being threatened and there is no opportunity to flee the scene. Edited February 23, 2012 by kiggy74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiomike Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 All these back and forth issues aside, I like carryin and nobody knowing I am. I like that advantage and will take all I can get when shtf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 You are trying to twist my words into a racist comment? Apparently we have a communication issue.If you open carry wearing a button up shirt tucked into a pair dress slacks nobody would second guess you wearing a gun. I don't give a fuck if you are purple, if you dress nice people won't feel threatened and open carry becomes more of a normalcy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiggy74 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 You are trying to twist my words into a racist comment? Apparently we have a communication issue.If you open carry wearing a button up shirt tucked into a pair dress slacks nobody would second guess you wearing a gun. I don't give a fuck if you are purple, if you dress nice people won't feel threatened and open carry becomes more of a normalcy.No, not at all, not trying to suggest you are racist, apologies if it seemed that way.My point was that everyone has their own definition of "normal", meaning there is no definition. And if laws allow for open carry for anyone then they have to allow open carry for dirty people too, or those with wife beaters and tattoos. There is no dress-code for criminals, just stereotypes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 At Kiggy: Just gonna chime in for a second at work so I can't really reply to this one. So if I were to open carry and wearing a wife beater keep in mind that I'm black. I would be minding my own business and still perceived as a threat because I have a gun out in plain sight. How does this make sense to Joe blow wearing a decent outfit and causing a ruckus? While I myself have by no means conveyed that I'm a threat. Its easy to pull the race card but make sure to have a valid example. Given I have no idea what color you are. My two cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 No, not at all, not trying to suggest you are racist, apologies if it seemed that way.My point was that everyone has their own definition of "normal", meaning there is no definition. And if laws allow for open carry for anyone then they have to allow open carry for dirty people too, or those with wife beaters and tattoos. There is no dress-code for criminals, just stereotypes.No worries. Im looking at the situation as open carrying to make a statement. Or trying to reintroduce guns as a norm to society. Like a door to door salesman. You are going to get better results in a shirt and tie than the wife beater.Take the sheepdog and the wolf concept. A sheep looks at a sheepdog and sees the same characteristics as the wolf, but the sheep know not to be afraid of the sheepdog. Look and act like the sheepdog, not the wolf, and the sheep won't be afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Again, openly carrying a gun is not a shield. You're telling me that someone can't walk up behind you and take that gun? By carrying it openly you are making yourself a target to some criminals that think they are a bigger bad ass than you.By the way, none of your arguments make open carry a better option than concealed carry.And I'm not an easy unarmed target, but if I'm carrying you won't know it.Open carry such as is described by the OP ignores the fact that people that don't have guns and don't like guns also have a right to not want them on their establishments.Would you like to try and get my gun from me while I am open carrying? Lets meet at a range or somewhere I will unloaded my firearm, you can confirm its unloaded and lets see if you get it out if its holster. I have $100 that says you don't and you wind up with a headache/broken nose, and then the gun drawn on you. I have trained for someone attempting to touch my gun. If someone does try to get my gun it is considered a threat and lethal force is permitted from the law enforcement I have talked to. Secondly I usually have a backup. Thirdly I usually open carry in a retention holster Blackhawk serpa or thumb break. Fourthly I am very aware of my surroundings.FYI I am serious let's meet up and see if you get my firearm(unloaded) from me! I am no bad ass, if a criminal wants to attack me because I am carrying a firearm, I guess we will find out who is a bigger bad ass. Although I don't think it has anything to do with being a bad ass. You are a more desirable target if you are concealed carrying, because they don't know if you can defend yourself. I have no problem if you choose to conceal carry or open carry, I do have a problem with you saying I am abusing the law by abiding by the law!If the property owner posts a no concealed firearms sign then they don't want concealed firearms. If they didn't want un concealed firearms the sign would read NO GUNS ALLOWED! The property own has every right to post if they wish just as I have every right to carry in a manner that is not restricted at their establishment. I also have the right not to do business with them. None of my arguments make sense? Lets Break the topic down.Is it legal to Open Carry in Ohio?Is it faster to draw from open carry or concealed? Is it my right?Does Open carrying make it clear to the bad guys that I am prepared to defend myself? Edited February 23, 2012 by crb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 No worries. Im looking at the situation as open carrying to make a statement. Or trying to reintroduce guns as a norm to society. Like a door to door salesman. You are going to get better results in a shirt and tie than the wife beater.Take the sheepdog and the wolf concept. A sheep looks at a sheepdog and sees the same characteristics as the wolf, but the sheep know not to be afraid of the sheepdog. Look and act like the sheepdog, not the wolf, and the sheep won't be afraid.He is obviously a wolf if he someone open carrying makes him nervous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 This is awesome, I started a thread that is now 9 pages long with a bunch of pissed off people. I am giving myself rep for this one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'm not pissed. In just trying to explain how I feel open carry is an effective way to advance the cause when done properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightbulb Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'm not pissed. In just trying to explain how I feel open carry is an effective way to advance the cause when done properly.Do you open carry yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'm not pissed. In just trying to explain how I feel open carry is an effective way to advance the cause when done properly.I didn't say everyone in the thread was pissed, and I certainly don't mind that they are. It shows passion and belief in their opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 The only time I open carry in public is when I go to and from the range and even then its rare. If I'm hunting I might depending on where I'm coming from and going next. I believe there is a time and place for everything. I always have my gun on me but its normally in an owb holster on my hip under a sweatshirt or button up. Its more comfortable for me that way. My open carry holster sticks out so far it catches on stuff and is awkward to me. I'm not against it at all of its done right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytriple Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thats the second time that a open carry holster has been mentioned in this thread. Can someone post a link to one of these as I am confused as to what they are ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conn-e-rot Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conn-e-rot Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Edited February 23, 2012 by conn-e-rot No that's not me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytriple Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Well that doesn't look very secure? whats to stop a angry soccer mom at mcdonalds from coming up and taking your gun away from you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conn-e-rot Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 For the record that is not me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiggy74 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 At Kiggy: Just gonna chime in for a second at work so I can't really reply to this one.So if I were to open carry and wearing a wife beater keep in mind that I'm black. I would be minding my own business and still perceived as a threat because I have a gun out in plain sight. How does this make sense to Joe blow wearing a decent outfit and causing a ruckus? While I myself have by no means conveyed that I'm a threat. Its easy to pull the race card but make sure to have a valid example. Given I have no idea what color you are. My two centsYou are reiterating my exact point in response to this post.... I don't carry open either. But I'm not against it. If you dress nice and.don't looked like the scary Guy with a gun you are helping and not hurting. But if you open carry and you are wearing a wife beater with tattoos from your neck to your wrist you are probably hurting the cause more than helping. Open carry is about turning back the misconceptions that anyone with a gun is up to no good. Its about reintroducing the normalcy of having a firearm in public. We are winning the fight.My point is in total agreement with you if you take a sec to read it again. There is no definition of what a threatening people look like, nor is there a dress code. Nor should anyone be mis-perceived as a threat just because of the way they choose to dress, their race, or the fact that they like tattoos. Good luck if you try to use these criteria to assess whether or not the person walking by you with a gun on their belt is a threat or not. All of the 9/11 terrorists were well-dressed, professional looking people with box cutters on them, and were all screened by airport security, and look how that turned out. The fact is that in the current state of society, any non-LEO who walks around openly armed is perceived as a threat. The gun movement has to be sensitive to this as well. Shoving it down people's throats with Starbucks sit-ins or by showing up armed at McDonald's as was described by the OP isn't doing anyone any favors IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conn-e-rot Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 personally I think the neck holsters are a bit ridiculous but I do know a guy that uses one and he loves it but he wears it in the winter under a pull over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Thats the second time that a open carry holster has been mentioned in this thread. Can someone post a link to one of these as I am confused as to what they are ?? Its gonna be hard to CC with this holster. I used to open carry around my yard with one. I need to pick another one up.I am not angry just passionate! Edited February 23, 2012 by crb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thats the second time that a open carry holster has been mentioned in this thread. Can someone post a link to one of these as I am confused as to what they are ??Mine is a serpa that doesn't conceal well for me. I don't think I get the funnies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conn-e-rot Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 You are reiterating my exact point in response to this post.... My point is in total agreement with you if you take a sec to read it again. There is no definition of what a threatening people look like, nor is there a dress code. Nor should anyone be mis-perceived as a threat just because of the way they choose to dress, their race, or the fact that they like tattoos. Good luck if you try to use these criteria to assess whether or not the person walking by you with a gun on their belt is a threat or not. All of the 9/11 terrorists were well-dressed, professional looking people with box cutters on them, and were all screened by airport security, and look how that turned out. The fact is that in the current state of society, any non-LEO who walks around openly armed is perceived as a threat. The gun movement has to be sensitive to this as well. Shoving it down people's throats with Starbucks sit-ins or by showing up armed at McDonald's as was described by the OP isn't doing anyone any favors IMO.The problem is not enough people open carry so it is odd for some people to see someone open carrying that is why we need more people to open carry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytriple Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 no pic crb. Like stated above the only time I open carry is around the house. Sometimes at the range, but I do not have a retention holster as of yet. That would be the only way I would feel comfortable with open carry. I would like to pick up a serpa from black hawk but have yet to come across a left hand model in a shop or show. And am to lazy to order it online. My JIT slide holster is very tight and would work but I am to paranoid to use it thinking someone would try to grab my gun if shtf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightbulb Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's clear that the big supporters of open carry here are just running their mouth. If they actually did what they said they'd be all over the news like those morons in Beavercreek in the video linked above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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