Trayvon Martin case will not go to the Grand Jury

[crb]

I dont see what pointless rants have to do with this? Im pretty sure thats what that section is for... and I have no clue wtf you mean, but im sure I got your panties in a bunch with my opinion... Sorry we all cant think alike, cuz if we did this world would be a better place.

No the world wouldn't be a better place, it would be very boring! I don't want everyone having the same opinion as me. Hell cheech and I differ in opinions or how we achieve the end result doesn't mean either of us is 100% right(correct).

[RVTPilot]

Why was Trevor Martin in the area. Why was he hiding in a hood? Why did he fight with Zimmerman? 10:30 at night in a hoodie in the dark is going to draw attention. He got a conflict and got shot. Again I say if someone is walking down my street in a hoodie at 10:30 at night I am going to grab my gun and follow him. See how he reacts and depending on his actions will determine whether I call the police. If he runs towards me to have conflict I will be prepared. If he has nothing to hide he should respect the fact that I am concerned about the neighborhood I live in. I hope he would do the same in his.

OK wait...say that again? If someone is walking down your street at 10:30 at night in a hoodie with it pulled up over their head you are going to grab your gun and follow them? As if you would be sitting in your living room and saw them through the window and they were walking by on the sidewalk? Or are you on your front porch minding your own business while they walked by minding their own business when you decided to grab your shootin' iron and follow them out on public property just to see what they are up to? Are you hoping they just keep walking? Are you waiting on them to turn and walk back towards the person stalking them who now has no more right to be out there on the street than they do and confront them about why you're following him? At what point do you decide to send rounds down the sidewalk? Just curious, see. Cuz that's doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

[jbot]

If you need to be shot you need to be shot, where on your body doesn't matter.

We can discuss this as men or you can be made to be offended. I'm not upset that you have a different opinion because you don't know what you don't know, your choices work for you even if they seem naive to most adults who use their brain. People that know self defense choose to carry because they understand disparity of force, I'm glad you choices work for you but your person philosophy lacks judgment that most aren't able to reason away.

(I hope you all are proud of me for containing my comments to a civil reply.)

You big fucking pussy. This has to be your worst post on here ever. If you can't find a way to continue the drama shut your pacifying lips by sucking my tiny yellow cock.

[magley64]

this thread has convinced me that I clearly need to be better armed, from now on i'm carrying grenades with me everywhere. pins pulled so if i get shot at least everyone involved will be dead, assured mutual destruction.

[Bad324]

OK wait...say that again? If someone is walking down your street at 10:30 at night in a hoodie with it pulled up over their head you are going to grab your gun and follow them? As if you would be sitting in your living room and saw them through the window and they were walking by on the sidewalk? Or are you on your front porch minding your own business while they walked by minding their own business when you decided to grab your shootin' iron and follow them out on public property just to see what they are up to? Are you hoping they just keep walking? Are you waiting on them to turn and walk back towards the person stalking them who now has no more right to be out there on the street than they do and confront them about why you're following him? At what point do you decide to send rounds down the sidewalk? Just curious, see. Cuz that's doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

To me I think it depends on the neighborhood. If I'm at my Dad's house in Parma I don't think I'd follow but I'd surely keep an eye out

My place here, I would indeed follow and I've done that twice in the 3 years I've lived here. Its a neighborhood where you can pretty much recognize everyone and can tell when someone out of the ordinary is lurking

[crb]

I guess I'm one dead motherfucker then

If I'm visiting family in your neighborhood, and decide to walk to the store for some candy and you confront me, and start hassling me with your gun, I'm gonna tell you to go fuck yourself. You have no rights, no authority, and no business bothering me for walking down a street. REGARDLESS of my fashion sense.

Did he confront tryvone?

Did he walk down the street/sidewalk gun drawn?

When exactly was the gun drawn?

Is it illegal to follow someone down a street/sidewalk in public?

Does a police dispatcher's instructions constitute a lawful order?

You are assuming he gunned tryvone down in cold blood, and that simply hasn't been proven yet.

[crb]

You big fucking pussy. This has to be your worst post on here ever. If you can't find a way to continue the drama shut your pacifying lips by sucking my tiny yellow cock.

Why is your cock yellow? I can understand orange if you are jacking off eating Cheetos but yellow?

[MidgetTodd]

Because hes Asian, get your stereotypes right

[crb]

Because hes Asian, get your stereotypes right

Oh! Shit if I'm gonna be a better racist I better start writing this stuff down!

[magley64]

You are assuming he gunned tryvone down in cold blood, and that simply hasn't been proven yet.

no, i'm not assuming that, that is a worst case scenario, and if that is the case he should be executed via firing squad.

I'm assuming that he shot and killed an unarmed person, which by all accounts isn't even in question, the only question is why...

the reason, motivation, excuse...etc...

[RVTPilot]

To me I think it depends on the neighborhood. If I'm at my Dad's house in Parma I don't think I'd follow but I'd surely keep an eye out

My place here, I would indeed follow and I've done that twice in the 3 years I've lived here. Its a neighborhood where you can pretty much recognize everyone and can tell when someone out of the ordinary is lurking

Brian, you and I have treaded upon a lot of the same NEO ground. Certainly, some neighborhoods are more rife with the riff raff than others. Keeping an eye out is something I always do. Getting up from the confines of your property, packing heat and following someone isn't self defense. It's inviting the opportunity to incite a violent act. If some dude is cutting through my yard back between houses? Hell yes I am arming myself and protecting my family and home. But I sure as hell won't leave them and go all Wyatt Earp down a city sidewalk. I call the cops, explain what I saw, then take necessary action should things escalate in my confines. Protecting my castle is my responsibility above all others. Protecting the neighborhood is the responsibility of the North Ridgeville PD. Want the law to protect you? Don't take it into your own hands unnecessarily. That's all I'm saying.

[crb]

no, i'm not assuming that, that is a worst case scenario, and if that is the case he should be executed via firing squad.

I'm assuming that he shot and killed an unarmed person, which by all accounts isn't even in question, the only question is why...

Are you slow? What part of self defense don't you get? That's his story and obviously he is sticking to it. Prove him wrong!

Edited April 10, 2012 by crb

[RVTPilot]

Why is your cock yellow? I can understand orange if you are jacking off eating Cheetos but yellow?

Because hes Asian, get your stereotypes right

jbot knows he's gonna get his. He knows dudes with big black cocks love little Asians. Black Todd is gunna git yellow fever with jbot.

[jagr]

I remember seeing Asian nipples for the first time. I was concerned and confused. I'd only seen pink nipples to that point.

Wait. What is this thread about?

Edited April 10, 2012 by jagr

[RVTPilot]

I remember seeing Asian nipples for the first time. I was concerned and confused. I'd only seen pink nipples to that point.

Wait. What is this threw about?

SOMEONE went to the P.I. Jarhead slut.

[jagr]

SOMEONE went to the P.I. Jarhead slut.

Actually I was in MCT or SOI at Camp Lejeune when I caught the fever. I had the fever for some time. I loved the fuck sounds and they were such givers.

Glory Days.

[Bad324]

Brian, you and I have treaded upon a lot of the same NEO ground. Certainly, some neighborhoods are more rife with the riff raff than others. Keeping an eye out is something I always do. Getting up from the confines of your property, packing heat and following someone isn't self defense. It's inviting the opportunity to incite a violent act. If some dude is cutting through my yard back between houses? Hell yes I am arming myself and protecting my family and home. But I sure as hell won't leave them and go all Wyatt Earp down a city sidewalk. I call the cops, explain what I saw, then take necessary action should things escalate in my confines. Protecting my castle is my responsibility above all others. Protecting the neighborhood is the responsibility of the North Ridgeville PD. Want the law to protect you? Don't take it into your own hands unnecessarily. That's all I'm saying.

I probably should have mentioned I kept enough distance and cover to not draw attention to myself. I can't fight for shit so I truly keep it on me to protect myself if there were an issue. If anything shady happened I'd probably be labeled a woose by some but I'd probably call the police before intervening myself unless someones life was in danger

[Exarch]

No the world wouldn't be a better place, it would be very boring! I don't want everyone having the same opinion as me. Hell cheech and I differ in opinions or how we achieve the end result doesn't mean either of us is 100% right(correct).

Not what I was getting at, but boring is better than dangerous. But what I was hinting at was if everyone thought alike(followed the laws/rules) like normal people we wouldnt have situations like this. Sure everyone does something theg arnt supposed to do, hell I speed everyday, sue me im guilty of that. But we cant just pick and choose which laws to follow, granted some are redicilous.... But laws are there for a reason, I dont know how crime started in the first place, but if we had capital punishment crime wouldnt be what it is today. You steal you lose a hand, you kill someone you get killed.

Society wants to be civilized, but see how well that works? America is too lenient on major crimes and too harsh on petty crimes, our society is so backwards. How the hell does someone get life for.being an accessorie to a crime(just for being a driver) yet the person commiting.the crime only gets 20years and the other person that actually was inside the place(also an accesorie) walks away Scott free? Cant remember which case this was, but it was pretty recent(in the past couple of years) and hell child molesters and rapists get off light too, hell they even get protected in jail/prison...

[crb]

I gotta call him and see who got the hook up, all the Keltec's I want I cant find.

Pf-9 I believe.

[magley64]

Are you slow? What part of self defense don't you get? That's his story and obviously he is sticking to it. Prove him wrong!

Yes you keep saying that, self defense, self defense, self defense... if the glove don't fit, you must acquit...

assuming you're 100% correct, and Martin came at zimmerman in a full rage with a bag of skittles... Why would he do that? was he provoked?

Where is his due process? Where is his innocent until proven guilty? Where is his trial?

if defending yourself from an unarmed attacker half your size (that you provoked in the first place) includes plugging them in the chest with your sidearm, you've got bigger issues.

that's assuming that zimmerman is as innocent as he claims, that's a "best case scenaio"

[Scruit]

Evidence says he shot him and he is now dead... that is the evidence, that is all the information that we have for sure. that is murder, now it is his responsibility to provide a defense as to WHY if there is no reason why, that is murder 2 at least.

OK, you made me do this. Grab your pre-law books.

What the hell is Murder 2? Do you get this crap from Law and Order? Or have you actually studied law?

There are many different levels of homicide given the actus reus (guilty act) of "I shot him" based upon varying degrees of mens rea (guilty mind).

It can be anything from "I plotted for weeks how to kill him and then stalked him and killed him in cold blood" all the way down to "As I was holstering my gun my belt caught the trigger and it fired a shot, ricocheting off the concrete floor and killing the guy next to me".

You need to understand the concept of standard defenses. These are necessity, self-defense, automatism, duress, insanity etc. The burden of proof for these standard/affirmative defenses is "by preponderance of the evidence". That is, is it more likely than not. For criminal charges (that are not strict liability) the prosecutor must prove both actus reus and mens rea existed, and at the same time, beyond a reasonable doubt. The affirmative defense, if successful, negates the mens rea, therefore there can be no conviction.

The foundation of the affirmative defense of Self Defense is the old Means-Motive-Opportunity-CannotEscalate-MustFlee - except for Floridians don't have the duty to flee. IF, speaking in a general sense, a younger, bigger, stronger (but unarmed) person it on top of a shorter and less physically able person and is striking him in the head, then the jury/judge/investigator must consider the following:

- Does the person on top have the means to use deadly force (which is any force likely to cause serious injury or death?

- Does the person exhibit the motivation to use deadly force? ("I'm gonna kill you", or continued assault beyond simple incapacitation or "winning the fight", etc)

- Does the person have the opportunity to use deadly force? If slamming someone's head on the ground (or, as some have suggested, Martin found and tried to take Zimmerman's holstered gun) is found to be deadly force, then by extension Martin had the opportunity to use deadly force. If the force employed by martin is not found to be deadly force then opportunity and motive are moot.

- Did the person on the bottom create or escalate the confrontation? THIS IS KEY IN THE MARTIN CASE... If Martin lost Zimmerman then went back and found him again then that is a new confrontation that Martin started and Zimmerman is in the clear. If the scuffle happened when Zimmerman first approached Martin then he has to overcome the presumption that he "started it"

- Did the person on the bottom use any opportunity to flee? IRRELEVANT IN THIS CASE but not because of the oft-cited reason. Stand Your Ground is irrelevant here because the deadly-force confrontation occurred when either party started using deadly force. IF Zimmerman is to be believed, his drew his gun only after he was on the ground. He obviously could not flee once he was on the ground and overpowered. Even without StandYourGround his duty to flee was non-existent at that point. People got hung up on SYG because they thought the deadly confrontation occurred when Zimmerman first made contact with Martin. No so-far-released evidence back that up, and all so-far-release evidence shows that Zimmerman withdrew and Martin came back to find him after the first interaction. SYG is a moot point.

(takes deep breath)

PEER REVIEW: Could I get someone who's been to law school to verify/validate the concepts I have stated above. They are a mix of my pre-law from England and my research of ORC and federal law in the US.

If your knowledge of law comes from the TV then step back and let someone with a law degree correct me if needed.

[KZ900]

...

Edited November 13, 2012 by KZ900

[Bad324]

assuming you're 100% correct, and Martin came at zimmerman in a full rage with a bag of skittles... Why would he do that? was he provoked?

someone charges at me and I draw and say you better stop in your fucking tracks or you're getting 2 to the chest. If they continue to advance then hell yes I'm shooting even if they charge me with a feather

[jagr]

I gotta call him and see who got the hook up, all the Keltec's I want I cant find.

Keltec announced an NFA length KSG.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/01/16/kel-tec-ksg-short-barreled-law-enforcement-nfa-model/

[RVTPilot]

I loved the fuck sounds and they were such givers.

Glory Days.

I just had to explain to my Mrs why I was laughing like a kid in a thread about the Martin/Zimmerman deal. +1 for you DevilDog!