ReconRat Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 No offense, but it's easy to Monday morning quarterback this situation and talk about what could have or should have been done. I don't blame anyone for being scared and fleeing, especially not when they're suffering the effects of tear gas and still hearing a loud movie soundtrack that also contains gun fire. The whole scene had to be dark, chaotic, and very confusing.He was between them and the movie screen. A lot of them said all they saw was a dark indistinguishable silhouette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Sad to hear this not really sure how I'd react to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Sad to hear this not really sure how I'd react to that.Really kind of makes you think doesn't it. My first reaction would probably to hit tge ground and get low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 PARIS -- The Paris premiere of the new Batman movie "The Dark Knight Rises" was canceled Friday after a gunman killed at least a dozen people at a Colorado opening of the same film.The event at a movie theater on the French capital's famed Champs-Elysees Avenue was supposed to include director Christopher Nolan and stars like Christian Bale, Anne Hathaway, Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine.But on Friday afternoon, workers were pulling down the red carpet display. Some could be seen carrying away a large mask that had adorned the facade of the theater.Warner Bros. said in a statement that it was also canceling all media interviews in the city. The studio said it was "deeply saddened" by the shooting.Shocking, the French surrender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysix Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 From Yahoo"Holmes, a graduate student at a nearby college with a clean arrest record, entered the movie auditorium wearing a ballistics helmet, bullet-proof vest, bullet-proof leggings, gas mask and gloves. He detonated multiple smoke bombs, and then began firing at viewers in the sold-out auditorium, police said today." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snot Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 So sad. But this is another reason i don't go to the movies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wht_scorpion Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 play dead then shoot him in the face or head shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 So sad. But this is another reason i don't go to the moviesLast time I was in a theatre was 2004 maybe. Way over priced and the crowd noise ruins it for me. I'm an on demand guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Really kind of makes you think doesn't it. My first reaction would probably to hit tge ground and get low.Ok, well duh just saying I'm gonna do the best to get out of there and whomever I'm there with. I agree with Kawi on the if I'm confronted leaving to react. I don't feel comfortable during in a situation like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 In Ohio, caught in an enumerated no-carry zone (police statton, courthouse, govt building, school, daycare, nursing home, church and so on) is a felony. Getting caught in a private business that has posted that they don't allow guns is a criminal trespass (M4, equivalent to a second traffic ticket in one year).Contrary to what some people have said, if you are discovered with a gun in a private CPZ they don't have to ask to you leave, nor give you an opportunity to leaver. The signage IS them telling you to leave. You entering or remaining after seeing the sign is the legal equivalent of refusing to leave when asked in person. You are guilty of the trespass at that point and can be charged.Having said that, I cannot recall any cases where someone has been charged with violating a private CPZ.If you are in possession of a gun illegally and you use it in valid self-defense then you can (and likely will) be charged with the possession. Illegal possession of the gun does NOT invalidate an otherwise legitimate self-defense claim. If you are in an enumerated CPZ then expect to be charged. if you are in a private CPZ then expect to be "trespassed" (notified officially that you cannot come back - same thing that they do to shoplifters)Even if you are a hero and save the day, if your possession is a felony (enumerated CPZ, prior felon, stolen gun etc) then you should still plan on being charged. If they don't charge you then that sends out the message that felony-level illegal possession of a gun is OK as long as you are a hero, therefore emboldening others to carry illegally under the theory that "nobody will ever know about it unless the time comes to be a hero"...Don't forget these are the actions one one person. There are ~150 million legal gun owners out there that didn't do anything wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I'll post the unpopular statistics...I'm not anti-gun politically, I'm all for the constitution, but I'm jus sayin' "arm everyone" might not be the right direction based on these stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) I'd like to see a socioeconomic break down of who is committing all these murders, and who the victims are. My guess is that there would be a strong statistical argument to deport the poor rather than getting rid of guns.I'm not saying I support that conclusion, but that is the kind of foolishness that comes from reacting to statistics rather than addressing the underlying cause. At some point we need to stop bailing buckets of water from the boat and focus on patching the hole. Edited July 20, 2012 by redkow97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) I'll post the unpopular statistics...I'm not anti-gun politically, I'm all for the constitution, but I'm jus sayin' "arm everyone" might not be the right direction based on these stats.And, just for fun let's look at how many defensive gun uses there were in the same time period. Most don't even generate a statistic (such as scaring someone off with a gun), but for the sake of argument the known statistics (Gary Kleck is a researcher who studied this) was in the millions. Even if his numbers are completely optimistic, many many more people use guns to protect themselves than ever die by them. Overwhelmingly so, even if the number is bloated (and I think it's not).Also, consider that the overwhelming majority of murders in the US are gang & drug related, and the victims too. Factor those out, and our murder rates are right there with most industrialized western Europe.But, all of that is semantics because we have a right to bear arms - most of those countries do not, and we're about individual freedoms not collective ones. I still have the right to defend myself from being a victim, even if there are 1,000,000 murders a year in the US. Likewise, if I'm one of the dozens killed in Spain by a gun, or a knife, or fists, what's really important is I'm just as dead but never lived under the freedom of having the tools to do something about it.That's America, and it beats the fuck out of Europe.Oh, and for bonus points how many guns were used by Timothy McVeigh to kill 162 people? How many were used during 9/11? How many at the Bath School massacre in Michigan in 1927?Guns ain't the problem. They never were. Edited July 20, 2012 by swingset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerpaw Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 17 people in Finland??? What did the sole survivor do??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Stats like that make for impressive headlines but don't account for the prevalence of the instrument or the size of the population.Did you know that in one year alone there were ~35,000 people killed in road accidents in the US? In Sweden there were 270. Think about that. But not too hard.- There are an estimated 275 million guns in the US. Last year I have stats for there were 8k deaths from guns. That means one death for every 33k guns.- There are an estimated 250 million cars in the US. Last year I have stats for there were 35k people killed by cars. That means one death for every 7k cars.That's right, after accounting for population, availability of the device etc, cars kill ~5x more people than guns.If the anti-gun folks REALLY want to save lives they should try to ban cars.Incidentally, did you also know that in Togo there were 15k deaths per 100k cars. That's equivalent to 15% of licensed drivers dying every year. Note to self, stay off the road in Togo. Safest country to drive in is Malta. ~4 deaths per 100k cars per year. US is ~15, UK is ~7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Each one of those guns were held by a person. When I saw the poster my first thought was "neat paint job on the pistol" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Another note. The homicide rate per 100k people in the US is 4.7, and Europe is 3.5. Given that the US has a gun death rate that is 100x higher than the Europe average, why is the homicide rate not 100x higher?Could it be that (*GASP*) pretty much the same number of people are murdered, just with other weapons?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrown57 Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Each one of those guns were held by a person. When I saw the poster my first thought was "neat paint job on the pistol"Me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 i always hear this, and it kind of makes sense, but i always wonder if its ever been verified, or if its just conjecture.are there people out there who have been verified as saying the specifically chose to shoot up a spot because of their sign prohibiting CCW? any links or anything?ok i think i found a few good facts that goes with this.60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed. source: Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms, James Wright and Peter Rossi, Aldine, 1986 A survey of felons revealed the following:• 74% of felons agreed that, "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime." • 57% of felons polled agreed, "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police." The Armed Criminal in America: A Survey of Incarcerated Felons, U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics Federal Firearms Offenders study, 1997: National Institute of Justice, Research Report, July 1985, Department of Justice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I ran across this little beauty today while searching for an answer for john today also. And since we all are concerned about national debt and fiscal resposibility we all should buy more and carry more Because guns are used an estimated 2.5 million times per year to prevent crimes, the cost savings in personal losses, police work, and court and prison expenses vastly outweighs the cost of criminal gun violence and gun accidents. The net savings, under a worst-case scenario, is about $3.5 billion a year. Suing Gun Manufacturers: Hazardous to Our Health, Sterling Burnett, National Center for Policy Analysis, 1999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Another note. The homicide rate per 100k people in the US is 4.7, and Europe is 3.5. Given that the US has a gun death rate that is 100x higher than the Europe average, why is the homicide rate not 100x higher?Could it be that (*GASP*) pretty much the same number of people are murdered, just with other weapons??gosh, don't go thinking about underlying reasons for statistics or sensational marketing/propaganda for more than 32.6 seconds. someone will shit a brick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 What will I do with all my bricks now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 What will I do with all my bricks now?Make a brick house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-bus Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 In Ohio, caught in an enumerated no-carry zone (police statton, courthouse, govt building, school, daycare, nursing home, church and so on) is a felony. Getting caught in a private business that has posted that they don't allow guns is a criminal trespass (M4, equivalent to a second traffic ticket in one year).Contrary to what some people have said, if you are discovered with a gun in a private CPZ they don't have to ask to you leave, nor give you an opportunity to leaver. The signage IS them telling you to leave. You entering or remaining after seeing the sign is the legal equivalent of refusing to leave when asked in person. You are guilty of the trespass at that point and can be charged.Having said that, I cannot recall any cases where someone has been charged with violating a private CPZ.If you are in possession of a gun illegally and you use it in valid self-defense then you can (and likely will) be charged with the possession. Illegal possession of the gun does NOT invalidate an otherwise legitimate self-defense claim. If you are in an enumerated CPZ then expect to be charged. if you are in a private CPZ then expect to be "trespassed" (notified officially that you cannot come back - same thing that they do to shoplifters)Even if you are a hero and save the day, if your possession is a felony (enumerated CPZ, prior felon, stolen gun etc) then you should still plan on being charged. If they don't charge you then that sends out the message that felony-level illegal possession of a gun is OK as long as you are a hero, therefore emboldening others to carry illegally under the theory that "nobody will ever know about it unless the time comes to be a hero"...Don't forget these are the actions one one person. There are ~150 million legal gun owners out there that didn't do anything wrong.Nursing Home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 ok i think i found a few good facts that goes with this.60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed. source: Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms, James Wright and Peter Rossi, Aldine, 1986 A survey of felons revealed the following:• 74% of felons agreed that, "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime." • 57% of felons polled agreed, "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police." The Armed Criminal in America: A Survey of Incarcerated Felons, U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics Federal Firearms Offenders study, 1997: National Institute of Justice, Research Report, July 1985, Department of Justice Hmm. Seems like what I've been saying about open carrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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