Scruit Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Title 6 here: http://veterans.house.gov/hr1627Passed Congress. Obama is expected to sign it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 hey finally something right! I applaud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiomike Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 This will end up at the SCOTUS to test its constitutionality. Freedom of speech.....and I'm betting those Westboro whores will win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'm not all about limiting free speech, even if it's in bad taste...I'm not a big fan of HR347 either...more laws, less freedoms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 This will end up at the SCOTUS to test its constitutionality. Freedom of speech.....and I'm betting those Westboro whores will win.It already did. This is a rider on another bill that has been finely crafted to avoid the constitutional problems that SCOTUS highlighted with previous attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'm not all about limiting free speech, even if it's in bad taste...I'm not a big fan of HR347 either...more laws, less freedomsYeah, it's really too bad you can't go protest a dead person in front of their grieving family. Clearly this is an important right being signed away.Way to be wrong about everything in life. Failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Yeah, it's really too bad you can't go protest a dead person in front of their grieving family. Clearly this is an important right being signed away.Way to be wrong about everything in life. Failure.If I didn't stand up for the freedoms of people I disagreed with... I'd be pretty hypocritical when expecting others to stand up for my rights...whatever helps you sleep at night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beegreenstrings Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Finally! THis is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Fulltext here: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr1627/text/easSection 601 is where you want to go...Only applies to funerals of military service members (present, past), establishes a time limit before and after the funeral and a geographic perimeter, damages of up to $50k and one year in jail if violated.This still won't stop douchenozzles from acting like douchenozzles, and I think there may be legal challenges to this though they may be hard to surmount given the specificity of this legislation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 You guys are funny...You JUST got done arguing that laws mean jack shit, and you're sitting here applauding new laws... OH TEH IRONIES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 If I didn't stand up for the freedoms of people I disagreed with... I'd be pretty hypocritical when expecting others to stand up for my rights...whatever helps you sleep at nightWhat helps me sleep at night is knowing there is still a shred of common sense left in this nation, held by people who are nothing like you. The Founding Fathers didn't write the constitution and address the right to protest and speak freely for the purpose of insulting the grieving at their most weak. That's not a freedom. And, for a guy who argued today about a civilized society, you sure don't seem to understand the word "civility" or have an inkling what it takes to achieve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 If I didn't stand up for the freedoms of people I disagreed with... I'd be pretty hypocritical when expecting others to stand up for my rights...whatever helps you sleep at nightVery very true.....however the single worst abuse of the 1st amendment in my opinion, is to disrupt, disrespect and cause commotion at a funeral. Especially at a funeral for men/women that died while helping save our rights. The line can and must be drawn somewhere, and this is where it needs to start. Would the founding fathers approve? I like to base some of my feelings and opinions while pondering that, and I bet were they still alive, they would be enraged at the sad state of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 You guys are funny...You JUST got done arguing that laws mean jack shit, and you're sitting here applauding new laws... OH TEH IRONIES!This should never have to be a law to begin with, the actions of some are so morally wrong it disgusts me. But it is their right to do so......then somebody there should have the right to kick some protester ass and not be prosecuted for it. How would you feel if that was your family members funeral being protested? You will say you respect their right to do so, but put in that situation I am betting you would feel otherwise. And if you didnt......that worries me. Morally right and morally wrong, typically that is not hard for most to understand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Sticks and stones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 It's a question of Honor.Of which many people have none at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 It's a question of Honor.Of which many people have none at all...Exactly!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snot Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I do not agree with protesting at funerals. But this is how it starts. Take away a right to make most people happy, then later find out more rights are taken and based off this. Next will be religion. Just my.02.I would rather them find another way to fight the protesting. Disrupting the peace or a nuance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVTPilot Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 This is only going to fuel the fire of the Westboro Bastards Cult. Wait for the ACLU to hop on board and find a way to litigate over this, ultimately wasting even more taxpayer money to defend the constitutional rights of these self righteous fucks. I see a point of Mags not wanting to supress one's rights, as in a manner of speaking it compromises his as well. Yet the means by which these cretins exdercise their rights is not in the spirit of the Amendment, and were they to have attempted anything like this in the times of our Founding Fathers, they would be met at least with the buttstock of a musket, if not the business end. Why these Westboro fucktards can't find their inner Heaven's Gate and save anyone else the trouble is frustrating, but alas their time has to come eventually. Hell, my hate for them belies my own ideals of humanity and such, making me just as bad to a degree. Anyway, it is a truly unfortunate state of events that a law must be passed to enforce common decency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Lets get this straight right now, I don't support their actions, at all...HOWEVER, if we're sticking to the constitution I HAVE to respect their right to do it...periodI don't support guns, personally, but i do support the 2nd amendment, and your right to carry them...If we're going to go back and try to decode what the founding fathers "meant" when they wrote these documents I'm sure "bear arms" meant muzzle loading rifles and flintlock pistols in an organized militia, not everyone having personal fully automatic weapons capable of wiping out a large group of people...but hey, feel free read the constitution literally when it suits you, and in context when that suits you better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 This is good news call it what you want we can choose what we deem acceptable for freedom of speech. I like the law and what it does to help those families at burial. Honestly if they were to protest at a funeral you were at and knew the one being buried wouldn't you want something to protect to sovereignty of the funeral service? I know that I would even if it means anther law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Lets get this straight right now, I don't support their actions, at all...HOWEVER, if we're sticking to the constitution I HAVE to respect their right to do it...periodI don't support guns, personally, but i do support the 2nd amendment, and your right to carry them...If we're going to go back and try to decode what the founding fathers "meant" when they wrote these documents I'm sure "bear arms" meant muzzle loading rifles and flintlock pistols in an organized militia, not everyone having personal fully automatic weapons capable of wiping out a large group of people...but hey, feel free read the constitution literally when it suits you, and in context when that suits you better...Unfortunately for you, who has probably never cracked the spine of a good history book, we know a lot about what the Founding Fathers intended. Not only did they argue these issues in the Federalist Papers, the arguments leading up to the ratification, but also in numerous speeches and letters to each other about these very things.The 2nd, for instance, was not about retaining a standing army with muskets. It was about the personal security and right of the individual as well. That's why it says "the right of the people" and not "the right of the militia". But, their letters and opinions (even taken from their individual states constitutions themselves) backs this up.And, just the same with the 1st amendment. Largely, it was meant to protect the right of peaceful protestation at the hands of the people and the press to address grievances, and to protect religious practices. It most assuredly was never even dreamed to protect mocking the dead in front of grieving families of the soldiers. If you honestly have read a word from Paine or Adams, and come away thinking they would have dreamed it could come to this, you're even dumber than I thought (and that's nearly impossible). Edited August 2, 2012 by swingset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Punk Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Stupid fucking law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Stupid fucking law.How so? What possible negative social outcomes will result? What freedoms will be infringed if you're not able to protest at a dead soldier's funeral? You can still protest whatever action he was engaged in, can you not? Just not at his funeral. Seems completely fair and reasonable, frankly.How could this harm freedom? It's too specific to snowball or "slippery slope", it's just about protesting military funerals.The law is from an alien perspective stupid, on that I agree, but it's in response to a wrong so egregious and sickening that I can't imagine that a society would have tolerated it to begin with or have no recourse other than "Well, let them mock the dead people's family".If you want a sane solution, protesting in view of families of dead soldiers should exclude you from any police protection, arrests for anyone assaulting you, or civil suits resulting from these actions. Let's see who wants to protest then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I agree that it's a stupid fucking law.......on the grounds that's it's absolutely ridiculous laws need to be put in place because human decency doesn't exist anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-bus Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Human decency exists' date=' but we'll go to jail if we punch their lights out. If Big Brother would step aside while we handled our business.. we wouldn't need to legislate this type of "morality". It would sort itself. Dear Government, Save me from myself.[/quote']QFTClose your eyes and imagine protests at a soldier's funeral in.... let's say....1943. Back when an ass-beating was socially acceptable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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