Scruit Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I located an eyewitness. Talking now. Standby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblosser Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Time to call Ken Hanson!!Pretty sure Hanson wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole. Goes against everything he teaches in class... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnor Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Pretty sure Hanson wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole. Goes against everything he teaches in class... +1 Doesn't look good for the defendant IMO....could have avoided the whole situation, but decided to escalate it...Better get a "soap on a rope" commin' jussayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 So, this is what the witness I spoke to said:The pickup pulled into the parking lot, turned around and stopped facing outwards (towards William) the bike pulled in and stopped. The biker got off the bike and approached the passenger side of the truck. The pickup driver remained in the vehicle and had his hands up. The biker fired multiple shots into the passenger side of the vehicle. The pickup driver got out of the vehicle to get away from the shots. The truck was not facing in a direction where it was a threat of running over the rider.There was no "pistol whipped him but the gun went off". The biker was shooting like he meant for the driver to die. No hesitation, no nothing. The shot that struck the driver in the head came while the driver was sitting in the vehicle with his hands up. There's no doubt the charge should be attempted murder.So, that changes things. Regardless of what went on driving-wise, the driver was fleeing and the biker was pursuing. That can be no claim of self defense when you chase and corner someone and shoot them while they have their hands up and are defenseless.If the road rage portion was a mutual thing then charge them both - but the shooting is a completely different thing that was not, according to the eyewitness, any kind of self defense - it was chase-down and attempted execution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 While I was at the scene tonight there were two 10tv news vehicles. Little ones, not the live broadcast trucks. CRV or Escape sized vehicles. Smartly dressed black guy was out there with them - possibly a field reporter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 So, this is what the witness I spoke to said:So, that changes things. Regardless of what went on driving-wise, the driver was fleeing and the biker was pursuing. That can be no claim of self defense when you chase and corner someone and shoot them while they have their hands up and are defenseless.If the road rage portion was a mutual thing then charge them both - but the shooting is a completely different thing that was not, according to the eyewitness, any kind of self defense - it was chase-down and attempted execution.Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Wow.I told the witness that he was charged with Felonious Assault and the reaction I got was disbelief. Took some convincing that there was no attempted murder charge. Yet. There were many witnesses - I see this pleading out at F2 OR being tried as attempt murder. No pleading down from F2 based upon what the witnesses are going to say on the stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/10/01/delaware-road-rage-stillwagon-charged.htmlHmmm..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hue jass Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 There's always two sides - just saying, I'd like to hear what the truck driver did that made this particular person do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadTrainDriver Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Yea, you all are probably right about Ken Hansen...Just another reason i'm not a sports fan.The guy even looks like an asshole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 There's always two sides - just saying, I'd like to hear what the truck driver did that made this particular person do this.There is NOTHING the truck driver could do to justify being chased down and shot multiple times while sitting defenseless in his truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hue jass Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I just re-read what I typed and no, never said it was justified. Still vague on exactly what happened, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZ900 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) ... Edited November 13, 2012 by KZ900 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fat2fly Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 So, this is what the witness I spoke to said:So, that changes things. Regardless of what went on driving-wise, the driver was fleeing and the biker was pursuing. That can be no claim of self defense when you chase and corner someone and shoot them while they have their hands up and are defenseless.If the road rage portion was a mutual thing then charge them both - but the shooting is a completely different thing that was not, according to the eyewitness, any kind of self defense - it was chase-down and attempted execution. Kind of looks like the former defensive lineman is going to be a wide receiver soon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 What if a truck driver tried to use his vehicle to try and kill you? Would you just shine it off and leave and let him kill the next guy? What if your child was on the back of the bike with you? I am not saying I would kill him. But he is not driving away. Not sure what I would do if I got my hands on him after he tried to kill me. Hope it never happens. Would you give him a hug or just drive away?You call the police and let them deal with it. You don't chase someone down and shoot them multiple times for something, ANYTHING, they did (and are no longer doing)Even if he tried run the biker off the road, that doesn't justify pursing the fleeing truck and shooting him.Exceptions, of course, are thing like the truck driver kidnapped a family member and is holding them in the truck etc, a felony crime that he is still committing.In the eyes of the law a confrontation is over once one party leaves and creates a separation of time and/or distance. If the other party follows then that the resulting NEW confrontation is on the follower.At the most basic level the purpose of self defense laws are to keep you alive - more specifically to accept that the natural human instinct is to preserve one's own life (or the life of an innocent), and to forgive those acts carried out under this instinct that would otherwise be punished. Once the threat to your life is gone, the person runs/drives away, then THAT IS IT. Self defense laws no longer apply. You are not a cop, you have no duty to pursue and apprehend. You have no business trying to apprehend. That why we have police officers. Drop a dime and stay out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDBGoalie Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Well that information changes things. I was very wrong.They both could be charged, but the truck driver's actions sound to be moving violations. The motorcyclist is wrong for pursuing another driver out of anger instead of just continuing along his ride and ignoring it. Hell it happens to all of us just about every time we ride.The motorcyclist is way wrong for firing shots at him while moving, then following him to shoot at him more, and then dismounting to hit him more. No way that can be justified as self defense. Makes riders and CHL holders look bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Kind of looks like the former defensive lineman is going to be a wide receiver soon.Stillwagon > :sexytime: < Bubba, or whoever was willing to pay a couple cigarettes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Makes riders and CHL holders look bad.I didn't hear yet - did they confirm he had a CHL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 One of the comments on the latest link stated the truck passed several cars to chase down the bike and slam on the brakes infront of him. It also stated that at the 23 intersection the truck started backing at the motorcyclist and that's when he shot the tail gate. I'm guessing this is where he snapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 One of the comments on the latest link stated the truck passed several cars to chase down the bike and slam on the brakes infront of him. It also stated that at the 23 intersection the truck started backing at the motorcyclist and that's when he shot the tail gate. I'm guessing this is where he snapped.Interesting. In that situation the shot may have been justified when faced with the threat of a truck backing into him. Still, once the truck flees the confrontation is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDBGoalie Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I didn't hear yet - did they confirm he had a CHL?The updated article said he was a permit holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperion Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 First off, dude was driving a big metal cage. Big f**king cage, motorcycle, big f**king cage, motorcycle. OK now how exactly did he let himself get blasted? I'm no murderer but I love life too much to let something like that happen to me. I would have fed him to my tires and went on to my destination.Second off, who gives a shit if he played for OSU back in the 16th century. Does that make him royalty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/10/01/delaware-shooting-tied-to-road-rage.htmlThomas Beal, the Columbus attorney who is representing Stillwagon, said his client fired to protect himself. “The truck was backing up toward the motorcycle,” on the exit ramp, Beal said. “The shots were in self-defense.” ...Stillwagon has a permit to carry a concealed weapon. The shots on the exit ramp may have been in self defense... But the shots in the autozone parking lot were not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblosser Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I would hope any gun owner, and especially a CHL knows this but it probably bears repeating:In Ohio, you are not justified in using deadly force if you:- initiate the confrontation,- escalate the confrontation,- or prolong the confrontation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDBGoalie Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) Interesting. In that situation the shot may have been justified when faced with the threat of a truck backing into him. Still, once the truck flees the confrontation is over.Would take some serious circumstances for that. Although it sounds like the truck was driving very aggressively, I still don't think someone brake checking you is reason to kill them. Then again, I don't believe in drawing a weapon unless I'm ready to kill the threat. Even after the truck brake checked him, the rider avoided the truck, and chose to follow him for revenge. He should have popped smoke and booked it while the truck was ahead. Find something concrete to get on top of so you can't get run over. If he continues to pursue, there isn't really any other option.**Read original quote wrong. Didn't see he was back up rather than brake checking**I still think escape to cover is better than trying to get a clean shot through a cab with HPs while on a bike, while your target is actively trying to run you over. Save that for when the dumbass is forced out of the cab to pursue and you are off the bike. Edited October 2, 2012 by BDBGoalie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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