2013 Assault Weapons Ban Summary

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

I thought only the top 1% could purchase days of the month.

fixed lol

[twowheelsnake]

fixed lol

Lol sorry man, I couldn't resist

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

Lol sorry man, I couldn't resist

I would have done the same thing lol.

[2fat2fly]

The right to bear arms was a very important concept for the poeple that determined what it means to be an American:

• "Whereas civil-rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."-- Tench Coxe, in Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution
  
• "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
  -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188
  
• If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual State. In a single State, if the persons entrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.
  -- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28
  
• "That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... "
  -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
  
• "[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
  --James Madison, The Federalist Papers, No. 46
  
• "To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws."
  --John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of the United States 475 (1787-1788)
  
• "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive."
  --Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).
  
• "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
  --Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.
  
• "Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it."
  --Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.
  
• "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
  -- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356
  
• "No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
  -- Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950]
  
• "The right of the people to keep and bear ... arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country ..."
  -- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789
  
• "What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
  -- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment, I Annals of Congress at 750, August 17, 1789
  
• " ... to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
  -- George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380
  
• " ... but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights ..."
  -- Alexander Hamilton speaking of standing armies in Federalist 29
  
• "Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
  -- Patrick Henry, 3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d ed. Philadelphia, 1836
  
• "The great object is, that every man be armed ... Every one who is able may have a gun."
  -- Patrick Henry, Elliot, p.3:386
  
• "O sir, we should have fine times, indeed, if, to punish tyrants, it were only sufficient to assemble the people! Your arms, wherewith you could defend yourselves, are gone ..."
  -- Patrick Henry, Elliot p. 3:50-53, in Virginia Ratifying Convention demanding a guarantee of the right to bear arms
  
• "The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them."
  -- Zacharia Johnson, delegate to Virginia Ratifying Convention, Elliot, 3:645-6
  
• "Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms ... The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard, against the tyranny which now appears remote in America but which historically has proven to be always possible."
  -- Hubert H. Humphrey, Senator, Vice President, 22 October 1959
  
• "The militia is the natural defense of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpation of power by rulers. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of the republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally ... enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
  -- Joseph Story, Supreme Court Justice, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, p. 3:746-7, 1833
  
• " ... most attractive to Americans, the possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave, it being the ultimate means by which freedom was to be preserved."
  -- James Burgh, 18th century English Libertarian writer, Shalhope, The Ideological Origins of the Second Amendment, p.604
  

Do you mind if I borrow this?

[Tpoppa]

^^ it's public information.

There are many more quotes from founding fathers regarding the right to bear arms. Those are all that would fit in the 10,000 character limit of an OR post.

[2fat2fly]

^^ it's public information.

There are many more quotes from founding fathers regarding the right to bear arms. Those are all that would fit in the 10,000 character limit of an OR post.

Thanks. I know it is, but you did the work to find it and post it. I don't like to step on toes....

[2fat2fly]

^^ it's public information.

There are many more quotes from founding fathers regarding the right to bear arms. Those are all that would fit in the 10,000 character limit of an OR post.

I used it in a letter to Senator Portman. It was a long one and I'm not sure I'll get a response, but we'll see.

[Tpoppa]

Here's one from fucking Gandhi for all the liberals. This is in response to the British imposing Gun Control on the Indian people.

The arms act of 1877 was the first gun control law in India. On the face it looked reasonable, but in practice getting an arms license was a tedious process for an Indian. This law made it mandatory for any Indian wishing to own a gun to obtain a license for it. An unlicensed gun was punishable with a fine and imprisonment up to 3 years. Thus in one blow the British restricted the ownership of guns during the days of the Raj.

The act of 1877 brought in a system where the issue of discretion was introduced and an application for a gun license could be rejected by the government for any reason.

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."

-- Mahatma Gandhi

Edited December 28, 2012 by Tpoppa

[2fat2fly]

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/336529/regulating-militia-kevin-d-williamson#

[ScubaCinci]

A NJ police station was shot up today with 3 officers being shot.

As a follow-up to this, apparently the shooter grabbed a cop's gun and did the shooting. Time to ban police from carrying guns.

"A violent struggle occurred while the suspect was being processed," Deputy Chief David Harkins said. The man was able to grab a gun and then opened fire.

[swingset]

As a follow-up to this, apparently the shooter grabbed a cop's gun and did the shooting. Time to ban police from carrying guns.

Clearly, only the police can be trusted with guns. Them and the military.

No, scratch that. With muskets.

[Scruit]

Question: As the bill bans rifles and handguns that can accept a magazine greater than 10 rounds (which means my P226 with 15 round mags) can I do this:

1) Obtain (or convert via spring shortening/pinning) me some 10 round mags.

2) Have a gunsmith weld or rivet a block of metal inside the magwell in a location that means factory mags simply will not insert any more

3) Have the gunsmith convert the 10 round mags (by drilling a hole or slot that lines up with the block so it acts as a key) so that they are now the only mags that will fit the pistol

I will then have a handgun that is not capable of accepting 11+ round magazines, because no other magazines work in it.

Would that get around the "capable of accepting magazines that store greater than 10 rounds" rule and keep my P226 off the NFA list?

Edited December 29, 2012 by Scruit

[C-bus]

Drinking early tonight edit...

[Scruit]

I am a law abiding citizen who thinks Scruit is AWESOME.

May your cold, dead hands develop immediate rigor mortis, so as to further deny the gun grabbers your arms.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Scruit

[C-bus]

May your cold, dead hands develop immediate rigor mortis, so as to further deny the gun grabbers your arms.

Damn quoter..... To the stockades I go.

[jagr]

I got your back Cbus.

[scottb]

<<

A NJ police station was shot up today with 3 officers being shot.>>

With this new information, the bill will be revised. The ten round limit will be reduced to two rounds. This way only 2 people would have been shot, not three.

[CephasGT]

"False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; ...The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm those only who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Can it be supposed that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, the most important of the code, will respect the less important and arbitrary ones, which can be violated with ease and impunity, and which, if strictly obeyed, would put an end to personal liberty -- so dear to men, ...and subject innocent persons to all the vexations that the guilty alone ought to suffer? Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. They ought to be designated as laws not preventive but fearful of crimes, produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree."

--CESARE BECCARIA, On Crime and Punishment, p.145 (1819) originally published in 1764

[chevysoldier]

These are the general numbers I have seen as far as gun ownership is concerned:

The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in the United States is 270,000,000

The rate of private gun ownership in the United States is 88.82 firearms per 100 people

The defence (sic) forces of the United States are reported to have 3,054,553 firearms

Police in the United States are reported to have 897,400 firearms

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

That means the government, military and police, have a rough total of 3,951,953 firearms, still 266,048,047 less the the general public has. Sure the government has bigger and better guns, but an all out war would leave the country a desolate wasteland. About 68:1 in favor of the general public.

According to the US census, in July 2011 the population was 311,591,917. Wiki cites active military personnel is 1,456,862 and Reserve personnel is 857,261 for a total of 2,314,123. Bureau of Labor Statistics says there are 794,300 police and detectives in the US. Population not including military or police, 308,483,494. Number of military and police, 3,108,423. About 99:1 in favor of the general public.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/protective-service/police-and-detectives.htm

According to a 2005 Gallup pole, 30% of Americans own a gun. Personally I believe it to be higher due to many not wanting the government to know. But that means 93,477,575 of American's own a gun. Now remember there are only 3,108,423 police and military in the US which means there are 90,369,152 more people that own a gun than the number of police and military.That's 3007% more if I did the math correctly.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/20098/gun-ownership-use-america.aspx

Just some food for thought.

[CephasGT]

And the numbers become even more dramatic when you figure in that only a small percentage of police and military would be willing to turn their weapons towards their own people. Most of us (police, military) are going to be shooting the same direction as anybody else, if it came to that.

[C-bus]

Unfortunately, tyranny happens slowly and methodically. If Hitler woke up one morning and said "go kill all the Jews", they would have defended themselves. First they restricts with "common sense" restrictions, then bans, then registration, then confiscation..... At what point do the oath keepers decide to "activate"? If confiscation happened tomorrow, there would be blood in the streets. Our current reality is the former, however. Slow.... Methodical.... Until we wake up one day in socialist/communist Amerika. Call me tin-foilhat paranoid. I assure you that I am not.

[ReconRat]

*snicker*

US News magazine; on line poll asking:

Should the Assault Weapons Ban Be Reinstated?

1. 0.57% Yes
   
2. 99.43% No
   

Go Vote

[Tpoppa]

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” – Thomas Jefferson

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington

"One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms." - Constitutional scholar and Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story

[shadyone]

Should the Assault Weapons Ban Be Reinstated?

1.65% Yes

98.35% No

After I voted