Let's get practical about this whole mess

[Scruit]

Why go out of your way to appease those that fail to grasp any intellectual concept of this argument? Just because some uppity bitch in Washington thinks we should turn in our guns doesn't mean she's owed any apology' date=' compromise or explanation. She can go to hell, along with anybody else that believes she's right.

[/quote']

If enough people believe she's right, she will win.

Regarding your other post... you're perfectly alright with a law-abiding citizen being fined for not breaking the law?

If you leave your car running unattended then you ARE breaking the law.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.661

You'll never find common ground with me

Apparently.

[Scruit]

I'm not out to solve that problem

That's your problem. The people who ARE out to solve it are going to solve it with bans unless we meet them halfway.

What is safe storage? Under so much lock and key that it's inaccessible when I need it? Fuck that.

Do you read my posts? I advocate quick-access safes when not in a holster on your person. I can get to either loaded pistol or semi-auto rifle within 10 seconds from any room in my house.

I shouldn't have to forego my individual rights because of the actions of someone else who takes from me, and then does harm.

All gun owners have a moral duty to not allow their guns to wind up in the wrong hands. How you achieve that may be up to your own personal judgement and sense of responsibility... But that doesn't help when you see the stats on how many stolen gun wind up being used in crimes. How is storing your weapons, loaded, in a quick-access safe (when not on your person) a violation of your rights?

No it won't.

Care to explain why you think that?

what's important is that the person who uses them for harm is punished, not me.

Personal responsibility is a two-way street. You can't just say; "Bad guy took the gun I had propped up next to my TV while I went on vacation and shot up a school with it, therefore not my fault."

[Scruit]

Out of curiosity, if during this [THREAD], someone broke in and stole this firearm, is that your fault?

The rifle had no bolt and was monitored at all times. It was safe.

[swingset]

That's your problem. The people who ARE out to solve it are going to solve it with bans unless we meet them halfway.

Bullshit. We've been passing half-way "reasonable restrictions" since 1934, and what's been the answer? Ever more attempts to take it all and incrementalism enabled by people who think just like you.

Do you read my posts? I advocate quick-access safes when not in a holster on your person. I can get to either loaded pistol or semi-auto rifle within 10 seconds from any room in my house.

And those are not sturdy enough to stop any determined thief (I know, I own them) and still a personal choice that should not be mandated by law.

All gun owners have a moral duty to not allow their guns to wind up in the wrong hands.

Bullshit. You're making guns more "evil" than a set of car keys. The thief has a moral responsiblity not to take other people's belongings and harm with them. Thieves use cars to injure, even to kill, and commit felonies every day. Do you suggest locking up keys in a quick-access safe? No? Because you're thinking just like Magz. And, it's bullshit. They steal knives too, need a knife safe now too do we?

How you achieve that may be up to your own personal judgement and sense of responsibility... But that doesn't help when you see the stats on how many stolen gun wind up being used in crimes. How is storing your weapons, loaded, in a quick-access safe (when not on your person) a violation of your rights?

I don't care how many are stolen, that's the criminals fault. 100%. Not one iota of responsbility belongs to me once they break into my abode and start stealing...whether it was in a safe or gift wrapped on the kitchen counter with some cookies for their long trip back to crime land.

Lots of cars are stolen and used for crime, but I still consider it a violation of my individual liberties to store my personal belongings in a manner that YOU would dictate to stop the unlawful from gaining access to them. It transfers the culpability of crime to me, and that's wrong and absurd. How many times do you need to hear that before it cracks your skull? You're making ME to be the villain in a one-way crime, dude, and it's bullshit.

Care to explain why you think that?

I already did. You won't stop determined thieves, or even slow them down. War on drugs didn't stop drugs, and making me lock guns up won't stop gun thieves, it'll just change how they operate and hinder me and others.

Personal responsibility is a two-way street. You can't just say; "Bad guy took the gun I had propped up next to my TV while I went on vacation and shot up a school with it, therefore not my fault."

Yes, I can say that with complete honesty. If a thief steals my car while I have it idling in the driveway and mows down a toddler with it, it's not my responsibility. I did nothing wrong, showed no malice or negligence, and the thief did every criminal act. Same with if someone steals my kitchen knives out of my drawer that's not bolted and locked, and stabs a pregnant nun.

Thieves bear 100% of the responsibiliy, and guns are not "special evil objects", Magz.

I reject your mindset, your methods, your philosophy and your goofy morality. It's bent, and wrong, and very liberal.

[Scruit]

Yes, I can say that with complete honesty. If a thief steals my car while I have it idling in the driveway and mows down a toddler with it, it's not my responsibility. I did nothing wrong, showed no malice or negligence, and the thief did every criminal act.

The thief did every criminal act, except for 4511.661, which is on you...

That's the difference between you hand me, and why we won't see eye to eye. I'm more cognizant of how my actions could affect others.

[Scruit]

Do you suggest locking up keys in a quick-access safe? No?

Yes. And I do. Help keep them organized and helps prevent a thief stealing my cars. I use this one: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/GE-AccessPoint-001795-TouchPoint-Cabinet/dp/B000GTQU5E]Amazon.com: GE AccessPoint 001795 TouchPoint 30-Key Cabinet' date=' Clay: Home Improvement[/ame']

Works very well. You should try it. Primary purpose is to mitigate loss in the event of a break-in (thief doesn't have piles of keys to access everything.

You're making guns more "evil" than a set of car keys.

I'm acknowledging the indisputable fact that guns are more deadly than a set of car keys.

[jbot]

i really didn't mean for this thread to go the way of a good ol' fashioned scruit gang bang, but hey, i tried.

[Scruit]

i really didn't mean for this thread to go the way of a good ol' fashioned scruit gang bang, but hey, i tried.

Gotta do something to get my post count up.

[Uncle Punk]

That's your problem. The people who ARE out to solve it are going to solve it with bans unless we meet them halfway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

Enough compromise already, we have twenty thousand other laws that don't stop criminals. None of them are needed to keep me from committing a crime, and some deprive me of opportunity, some of them would make me a criminal for possessing something that would never cause harm to anyone. The slippery slope is already here and compromising from the last set of compromising is a loser’s mentality.

That's the difference between you hand me, and why we won't see eye to eye. I'm more cognizant of how my actions could affect others.

Someone commits a crime by stealing something from me and I'm complicit? Let's play that out to the gun/bullet manufactures and make them complicit as well. The crime couldn't happen if the tool was never built. I know others have gone down this path and it's a stupid deflection of responsibility away from where it belongs.

[OsuMj]

The rifle had no bolt and was monitored at all times. It was safe.

So, you wouldn't take responsibility if a CRIMINAL (say wearing a mask so you couldn't identify them in the video) committed a CRIME and stole your gun? doesn't make sense to me.

Your point about safe storage is legit. We should all advocate safe storage (what that means is obviously going to vary from person to person). I disagree with making victims of a crime responsible for the criminal action. Where would it stop? Are we responsible for stabbings when they steal kitchen knives? Drunk driving if they steal car keys?

[max power]

i really didn't mean for this thread to go the way of a good ol' fashioned scruit gang bang, but hey, i tried.

He brings it on himself, every time.

[Scruit]

He brings it on himself, every time.

Don't think I didn't notice you skulk off into your corner when I destroyed your argument on 922r compliance, bub.

[max power]

Don't think I didn't notice you skulk off into your corner when I destroyed your argument on 922r compliance, bub.

you didn't destroy shit, Magz jr., I just refuse to argue with retards on the internets. Incessantly stupid people like yourself who don't know when to shut the fuck up are what is ruining this site.

Why don't you take your paranoid ass over to one of the many OMFGtheworldisouttogetme surveilence sites and you can discuss how to "test" your sons paranoia level with othe like minded nutballs.

Btw, my scary black rifle is completely legal, fuck you very much.

[Scruit]

you didn't destroy shit, Magz jr., I just refuse to argue with retards on the internets. Incessantly stupid people like yourself who don't know when to shut the fuck up are what is ruining this site.

And if this is how you talk to people who are pro gun then it is people like you who are going to get us completely banned. My scary black rifles are legal and I'd like to keep it that way. If that means helping find a real solution that preserves the 2a intact then so be it. Trench warfare is not a wnning strategy.

(If you refuse to argue, then what are you doing right now? Arguing in your spare time? )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Edited January 3, 2013 by Scruit

[madcat6183]

you didn't destroy shit, Magz jr., I just refuse to argue with retards on the internets. Incessantly stupid people like yourself who don't know when to shut the fuck up are what is ruining this site.

Why don't you take your paranoid ass over to one of the many OMFGtheworldisouttogetme surveilence sites and you can discuss how to "test" your sons paranoia level with othe like minded nutballs.

Btw, my scary black rifle is completely legal, fuck you very much.

Wow, jaw dropped. That's all.

[Uncle Punk]

And if this is how you talk to people who are pro gun then it is people like you who are going to get us completely banned.

WHAT?

You can't possibly expect the rest of us to consider you pro gun; I find it comical that you are under such a delusional impression that it makes me sad for you. You are the agnostic fence sitter without any real convictions either way and think you can talk out of both sides of your mouth trying to pacify the two sides when in reality both of them hate you.

[TSB67]

My belated new year's resolution is not to argue on the internet. We should all have a beer and argue in person. Shit gets out of control on here.

[max power]

(If you refuse to argue, then what are you doing right now? Arguing in your spare time? )

Not at all. Just providing you the service of pointing out how stupid you look to the masses here. To argue with you your opinion would have to matter to me. It doesn't.

It just pisses me off that screwballs like yourself are running the asylum while so many good members never log on anymore because this place has turned into a bunch of douchebag trolls arguing incessantly about shit they have no control over.

I'd have to say that I know of just as many good people that never log onto this site anymore as people that do. Look at our mods list. Most of those guys and girls never log on and the ones that do rarely comment on anything because no one wants to swim in this fucking retarded shark tank.

[shittygsxr]

100 years or compromising has gotten us into this mess. It's time for trench warfare the sooner this happens the sooner we can start over. I hope they pass legislation banning guns with a mandatory turn in. It's time for this sleeping giant to wake its ass up

[AWW$HEEET]

100 years or compromising has gotten us into this mess. It's time for trench warfare the sooner this happens the sooner we can start over. I hope they pass legislation banning guns with a mandatory turn in. It's time for this sleeping giant to wake its ass up

That would honestly be the best case scenario. The only sort of thing that would prompt people into action.

[Pokey]

None of the laws you are advocating would have saved any of those children.

Truest statement made yet. Laws are made to be broken, and there are many who do just that. There has always been and will always be those that "choose" not to obey important laws and set rules, and yes the rest of us suffer for that. So I think it has been proven time and time again, that more legislation doesn't fix anything. I still like my idea of having commandos taking out the scum in this country, when the bad guys actually have something to "FEAR" they will start to get the big picture.

[madcat6183]

We need to instill fear in the baddies. We've seen what happens when we leave our security in the hands of those in charge. Train' date=' carry and don't become complacent. The world is ugly. The world is also beautiful. Just do what you must to protect those that you love. Refuse to be victimized by anybody.

We have to do this for ourselves. Nobody else will do it for us.[/quote']

[Coyote]

[swingset]

Common sense like that is dangerous. It should be kept in a locked safe, to keep it away from kids and scary people.

[chevysoldier]

Scruit is Magz Jr. bwahahah