After just reading all of that my brain is twisted from all angles. Besides the morality and legality of sterilization for welfare, what about the kids themselves? If you stand up for the rights of children when it comes to abortion, why do you not stand up for the kids that would have been born had the government not sterilized their parents? In both cases, the kid would have been born and in neither case is the kid actually here breathing. What I am trying to get at is that some of the greatest success stories come from the drive to leave poverty. They make movies about this shit... Good Will Hunting, October Sky.. (two of my favorite movies) and for some real life examples October Sky was based on a true story. The main character (Homer) grew up to work at NASA.. and if the stories are true, our president didn't start life in the best financial situation Aside from that, I like this thread a lot. I like the idea of drug testing... oh yeah, one more thing that just popped into my head.. don't all these programs currently have enrolled length limitations? You can no longer be on food stamps (etc) forever, right?