I'll take the bait... First, I'll hit on the American Civil War and how it "wasn't that long ago". The civil war broke out in 1861, 78 years after America gained independence. Its has been 148 years since the break of war, so I'd just like to make the point that we can already say the civil war took place in the beginning of America's history and is no longer at the heels of this generation. Also, lets add that the civil war was fought over slavery. Suppression of an entire race into servitude and sub-human existence. Right now we're talking about an economic "crisis". To add to what you said Jerm, about "soverign loyalty", its completely ignorant to "support" any leader's decisions just because they are in a position of power, or because you voted for them. I'll come out and say that I voted for Obama, but I don't think giving hand outs will fix the economy and I'm completely against gun control. Does that make me a hypocrite? No, it makes me an individual and someone who thinks (and someone that lives in a two party system -aka lesser of two evils). The phrase "tyrannical socialism", which the OP used, doesn't make sense. Tyranny = a single, oppressive ruler (Hitler for example) socialism = a socio-economic system So what? Should I watch my back & live in fear because socialized health care might beat me to death around the next corner? However this association of socialism and tyranny is forgiveable, because the link has been fabricated and regurgitated by the media for years. Two more points, and then I'm done: 1. America is nothing like Rome, or any other ancient civilization. Again thats the whole oppression of people and tyrannical leadership that doesn't exist here. 2. This "divide" of the democrats and republicans is way out of perspective. Lets talk political ideologies. The "American Left" and the "American Right" are still CENTER on the political spectrum. Both of our parties are Liberal! We're not talking about Facism vs Communism. Our two parties fight over which side of the driveway the garden gnome should be on, not how to run the country. Now, if you'd like to talk about how bullshit this "bailout" is, about guns, or anything else that is relevant then don't make the thread title "Civil War". Saying our economic situation will lead to civil war is like saying republicans are fiscally conservative.