cOoTeR

rented the lc9 at the range, put about 3 rounds through before deciding that I hated it. The trigger pull is ridiculously long. Maybe my fingers are too long, but it actually felt like I was straining my trigger finger. Anyone (todd maybe?) know if the keltec equivalent have a really long trigger pull too?

I only own 1 kel-tech its a p3AT .380. It has a long and stiff trigger pull. I think it is because of its size and lack of a safety.

So can we look forward to part 3 anytime soon?

Probably not, I think everyone realized either people know how to turn or they won't listen.

A couple stories to think about. I worked at a prison when I lived in Ohio. Before I got there the guy working the outside of the fence responded to an alarm going off on the fence. When he got there he saw a person dressed in blue (what the inmates wore) on the fence as if they had just climbed out. Hey ordered them to stop and get on the ground. The person jumped down he yelled at them to stop and lay down. The person turned and ran he told them stop or I will shoot as loud as he could. The person kept running. He fired to shots and missed but the person dropped to the ground. When all the dust settled the person turned out to be a 13yr old special needs kid that had wandered away from his assisted living facility. The kid was lost and saw the prison lights and thought it was his assisted living home, he was trying to climb in. The officer followed policy to a t but had he hit the kid he would have to live with shooting a 13yr old special needs kid.

A guy I work with now was getting ready for work (3rd shift) and went out to start his jeep so it would warm up. When he came back there was a young incoherent girl laying in the back in her underwear. He called the police. Turned out she was also a special needs kid that had wandered out of her house and got lost. She was cold so she broke into the first place she could warm up.

The reason I bring this up is there are multiple stories of people that are drunk, schizophrenic, elderly, or "special" that don't mean any harm yet wander into peoples locked houses somehow. Without giving a warning or properly identifying the person as a threat if you shoot you will have to spend the rest of your life knowing you killed someone that probably wasn't going to hurt you.

i dont care to "scare" an intruder....if someone breaks into my place, they better be prepared to get shot. why anybody would leave their sd/hd weapon unloaded is beyond me....my shotgun is within arms reach of my bed, and its loaded with one in the chamber ready to go at all times (safety on, though)

sure racking a round sounds scary to an intruder....but id rather stop the intruder all together.

Have you ever killed anything before? Even if you are a stone cold killer billy badass and have no issues with killing a person there's a lot that goes along with it. Not to mention the mess. I'm assuming you don't have children moving around your house too much so a chambered firearm is not an issue. There is no real disadvantage of having an unchambered shotgun that's ready to be racked it only takes a split second. But believe it or not there are people with an aversion towards violence that aren't as eager to bust a cap in someone. For people like that a nice warning is good. Like my wife she is very opposed to shooting someone unless its a last resort.

What happens if you wake up because you hear someone in your house grab your gun then the next thing you know they are coming into your bed room. You fire a shot dropping the person only to find out it was your family member coming back to bed after getting a late night snack. Had you racked a round you would have scared the shit out of them and probably gotten a response along the lines of WTF are you doing.

I currently keep my 870 ready to go chambered and safety off. That sits on my wifes side of the bed furthest from the door and beside her taurus judge also loaded. Then in the drawer of my night stand is my p2000. If something happens I go check it out and the wife grabs the 870. If the bedroom door opens and the person hasn't identified themselves as a friendly my wifes going to shoot for center mass. The judge is there incase somehow the bad guy(s) get close enough to get a hold of the 870 barrel. Now we are soon to have to adjust our plans due to my son learning how to get mobile.

It just boils down to matter of opinion but the kill em all approach could set you up for a rough time in court if they can portray it as you intended to kill the person. This thread would be bad for you if the wrong attorney found it after you shot someone.

Lol' date=' I'm good with the .38[/quote']

Just wait that gun will eventually transfer its evil to you and make you go on a shooting spree. :sarcasm:

After you shoot it for awhile and start enjoying it you may become addicted to firearms.

Sorry to hear.

If it really is a judge I bet he carries a gun while on the stand.

I bought a pair of those at a gun show about a year ago. There's one in my car and my wifes has a "S" type caribeaner (sp) on hers. So she either clips it to her keys when she gets out of her car or carries it in her purse. Ours are braided right up against the handle part.

You watch too many cowboy movies.

Have you ever heard a shotgun rack a round when you don't expect it? Anyone creeping around your house that sticks around after that is either deaf or means business. Now I'm not saying you should keep an shotgun laying around hoping to scare people with the sound just pointing out it is a great deterrent. If you've been around shotguns enough you can hear the difference between when a round is chambered and when the foregrip is worked on an empty shotgun.

what if they're deaf or just a bit hard of hearing? could be trouble.

Then maybe they shouldn't be breaking into your house or otherwise endangering you.

It appears these people were held hostage in their home by their firearms. Then some how the guns made the man take the rap for it. Becareful guns are scary and you can't trust them.

http://m.abc6onyourside.com/news/BREAKING_NEWS:__Standoff_in_Delaware_County_Ends_Peacefully

Anyone experienced with firearms will know a .22 by the sound, but how many bad guys do you know who are going to ask "is that a .22?" before they run, or take a round?

Never pull a gun on anyone unless you intend to shoot them. The whole "this will scare him off" theory is a good way to get shot when the bad guy didn't tell you he had a gun too.

But the sound of a shotgun racking a round when you don't expect it will scare the crap outta most people. Most will run after hearing that, if not you'll know you have to be ready to use it.

A CFZ is what the bad guys and crazy people want to target. The options are as follows: Don't ever go into a CFZ "which is impossible in some cases", go to the CFZ and don't carry a weapon, or go to a CFZ and carry a weapon. There are potential and obvious repercussions for any of these choices, and I "believe" that only on duty law enforcement can carry in those zones as well. The repercussions are felonies, jail time, loss of license, mass shootings, murders, injuries and utter chaos. Doing the right thing and the lawful thing isn't always the right decision, but once again, there are repercussions.

It depends on the branch of law enforcement on when and where they can carry. Some basically just have to follow the CHL laws while off duty while others can carry just about anywhere any time.

i believe we're on the same side here, but...

if i were carrying in church and shot a dude, i'd first have to prove that i had permission from the preist/pastor to do so, otherwise i'm in violation of at least one of Ohio's laws. Assuming the dude i just offed was a "bad guy", and meant to do harm, i probably wouldn't get charged, but still...

same bad guy w/knife, same me but this time with a knife, and we're out on the public sidewalk in front of the church, i DO NOT need to explain why i didn't kung-fu-judo-chop-mace-taze him into submission.

it seems you've alluded to being some sort of LEO (fed, local, don't know, doesn't matter), so if you are, and as part of your duties have to use force, then yes, you have to explain it. different standards.

on the other hand, as a civilian resident of Ohio, i don't have to explain anything as long as what i did passes the "imminent grave bodily injury or death" test. Part of Ohio's "Castle Doctrine" assortment of gun laws. No duty to retreat, no duty to use less-lethal means.

By your thinking, Bruce Lee (assuming he were alive and a resident of Ohio) would never be able to use a gun in defense of self/other, since we all know he could take on 10-15 armed dudes with his bare hands/feet and whoop 'em all.

Again, not <really> arguing with you, but trying to clarify a civilian's rights under Ohio's laws.

I you kill someone be ready to explain why that was the best option. You will talk to an investigator and possibly even a prosecutor. Even if you shoot and miss then the guy gives up your going to need to answer for it. I do know that the standards for LEOs are much more strict than civilian standards but just having a CHL doesn't mean you can go wyatt earp on some bad guys w/o explaining why. Then there's also civil court where the persons family comes in and paints the bad guy like an angel who'd never hurt anyone. Their attorney is going to point out all the specialized knowledge and tools you have. You will need to explain all your choices. I'm not saying you will be wrong I'm just pointing out that you will have to prove that you were right. It's similar to if someone breaks into your barn and gets severely injured falling on some equipment. In todays world you'd be taken to court and have to explain why your dangerous equipment was there and that it was not there as a trap.

If the time comes do it to it but never shoot to kill shoot to stop.

no, no, and no.

you're either justified in using lethal force or you are not justified in using lethal force.

I didn't say you wouldn't be justified just that your going to have to explain more. Ability is a big part of justifying any type of force used. What one person would be justified in doing another wouldn't. If you've ever used a type of force on someone and had to explain it you would understand. If you were carrying in that church and shot the guy with the knife you would be explaining why you chose to shoot him to a prosecuting attorney. If you had the ability to safely disarm him with a lesser form of force ie taser or specialized martial arts training you'd better be able to articulate why deadly force was the only option you felt you had.

So how does the new bike feel?

A gun is not your only choice for self defense, so if you must enter a cpz you can still be protected and legal.

But the more you know the more you are liable for. If you need to protect yourself with deadly force and you know lesser effective forms you will be asked why you used deadly force instead of the lesser forms of force you know of.

I'm talking cpz's in general, not just churches. Good luck asking permission to carry in a school or daycare.

I love you too.

Or you can become above it and not limited by the gun laws.

my main reason is I started shooting when I was about 7 (dad believed it was better to teach my brother and I vs us being curious and getting hurt) and i would sit in my room and dry fire my shot guns. (I was 7 give me a break!!) The next rabbit season i went to fire my gun and it would not fire, gun smith told me that i had fractured the pin from dry firing. After that I never dry fired a gun again.

On another note when my brother was in Police Acc. they dry fired all the time for training purposes, instructor swore up and down it would never hurt the weapon. I guess I would just rather be safe.

All the people in my class that dropped rounds low and towards the weak hand (anticipating the shot) were instructed to practice dry firing.

Sooo, you carry and no one knows, until there is a need to draw your weapon, then you have a problem.

The way we were taught once you fire your weapon, legal or not, the legal entanglement begins. If its a all legit its still a nightmare dealing with all the repercussions, and yes if you stop stuff from happening you are all good, but why carry in a place you know is an unlawful place to do so. The way I understand it not only do you lose your weapon, you lose your ccw forever, and will probably be doing some jail time.

This falls under the "I'd rather be judged by 12 than be carried by 6" clause.

Shit nevermind on the double post. Carry on.

Not sure how legit this is but it seems interesting.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/01/journal-news-hires-armed-security-guards-153103.html

I wonder if the dry firing rule is a result of firearm safety because very few guns can go off without the trigger being pulled. My guess is it was started to prevent negligent discharges based on "I thought it was empty".

I think its a gangland issue he's a blood I bet it was a crip church.