rl
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Posts posted by rl
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Its a possibility that there was a damaged valve guide and it cause the valve to hang enough to hit the piston. how was everything else on the head? was the valvetrain ok? how about the shortblock? (besides obvious damage)Originally posted by The TSi U Fear:Though to have just one make contact is nearly impossible..or highly unlikely rather.
How is his timing belt/tensioner assembly?
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If it looks like a chipmunk was eating the face of the valve, it could be detonation..
[ 14 May 2002, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: rl ]
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Less than the El Camino.Originally posted by kenny:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by NIXONcrx:
what will i be left with power wise once ive done the zc swap with turbo?
TurboRex dynoed 180fwhp.</font>
I think it was like 186 (like 176 torque), this was with a DANGEROUSLY lean (15:1...no kidding) air fuel ratio... I would wager to say he is pretty close to the 200fwhp mark now with a hair more boost and his fuel problem figured out.thats a dead stock motor with a turbo (pulleys and exhaust of course)
[ 13 May 2002, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: rl ]
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The controller greddy gives you, which basically uses the MAP sensor to up the voltage to the injectors, and slighty retards the timing, it comes with the kit for 95+ civics.Originally posted by slow4now:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by rl:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by slow4now:
The ZDYNE one wire conversion comes with fuel and ignition maps already optimized so there is no tuning required. What Greddy fuel control box are you speaking of? Thanks.
And I'm sorry but there is no cookie cutter optimization, it can come close, but the best way is to get it on a dyno with a wideband and play with it.</font>
Sorry, I missed this reply before. I didn't realize you were talking about turboing a B16A. If you do just a B16A swap CORRECTLY there is no tuning needed. If you turbo a B16A properly, there is not much tuning needed, but extra tuning never hurts and would definitely help in most cases. The blue box Greddy gives you in the 92-95 kit doesn't allow for any adjustment, so I don't know what tuning you are going to do with it. Also, it does not retard the timing. You have to do that yourself by mechanically retarding the distributor. The blue box stops the MAP sensor from seeing boost, and therefore prevents the CEL from coming on. It also acts as a boost dependent fuel regulator to richen the air/fuel mixture under boost.</font>yes, it acts as a electric FMU, similar to what vortech uses on the returnless style fuel systems for 99+ mustangs.tuning? timing and a AFPR, for starters, possibly lose the blue box in favor of a SAFC.
ohh, and he is using those cams because ported vtec heads flow very, very well (for a honduh engine hehe) and the lighter cams, and valvetrain allow him to rev his -probably built- shortblock to the freaking moon.
[ 13 May 2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: rl ]
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lol, yes! back to the original subject...did you decide on doing the zc+turbo swap yet?
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Correction:What I meant to say was the it keeps the cam on the higher Vtec cam PROFILE, not cam as originally stated.[/QB]</font>couldnt you do that with a VAFC?Originally posted by slow4now:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by slow4now:
I think when you say Vtec Killer cam you may be talking about the roller kit. It basically keep the engine on the High Vtec cam thourghout the entire RPM range, therefore the lift is no longer variable.
and what do you mean 'so lift is no longer a variable'?
more lift at low rpm =/= more power
[ 13 May 2002, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: rl ]
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Firs off, I understand how a cam works, and how an internal combustion engine works, I have a LOT of expeirnce racing/building and tuning all kinds of ford 302 combos, the principles are the same. (I built the short block in my car, did all the port work on the heads, I've done super charger installs, turbos, and probably 20+ head swaps, cam swaps etc) My point was the car probably isn't going to run as well as it can with one cam retarded say 1* and the other advanced 1*, The best thing to do would be to get custom ground/turbo grind cams.Originally posted by slow4now:You are correct about dialing out overlap about cams (whether you intended to be right or not). Overlap is when both the exhaust and intake valves are open, when the pistons are near TDC (top dead center) on the exhaust stroke.So, moving the intake and exhaust events away from each other will decrease the amount of overlap. However it is important to expel all of the charge air that was burned so the engine can get an uncontaminated charge of air.(Ashes do not burn,and that is basically what is left after the combustion cycle). If the intake valves are open at the same time as the exhaust valves, the incoming intake air can help push out the exhaust gases, and not the engine will have fresh air to mix with the fuel and hopefully a more powerful explosion will occur.This is why some overlap with a turbo motor is good. Of course all of this must also be timed with the postion of the poston and crank, but hopefully explained myself well enough without going that far with it
.The compression of a motor made of a B18B block,B18B pistons, a stock 3 layer Honda headgasket a B16A head and stock B18A piston to deck height would be roughly 9.55:1 cr. A stock LS B18B motor has a CR of 9.20:1. Yes their are thicker headgaskets available, (Greddy and Cometic both make them) and they are made in variable thickness. A head gasket 2mm thick (0.07874 inches) will lower compression on a stock B18B to 8.62:1 (.58 points).
I think when you say Vtec Killer cam you may be talking about the roller kit. It basically keep the engine on the High Vtec cam thourghout the entire RPM range, therefore the lift is no longer variable.
I'm trying not to take your last comment offensively (as I'm not sure you meant it to be a negative comment directed to me.). However, (don't be offended as this goes for everyone and I don't mean to direct it to you) but if you DO something WRONG your experience doesn't mean anything. I would rather have someone build me a motor that has only done a dozen or so CORRECTLY than someone that has been building motors for 20+ years and has done them INCORRECTLY. Later.
I have yet to assemble a OHC Honda short block, and I'm not sure I would want to as the main clearances have to be MUCH tighter than with the engines I am used to dealing with (90% of the oil pressure in a 302 is built on the cam bearings vs. The majority of the pressure in a OHC engine being built on the mains) generally, I just do head swaps/engine swaps and installs.
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You can dial out overlap with cam gears. I don't know anything about "vtec killer cams". There are cams that are turbo specific that generally have slightly higher lift with roughly stock duration on the intake cam and shorter duration on the exhaust. The only way to kill vtec that I know of is to either disable it (disconnect the vtec solenoid) or get a roller cam system.Originally posted by slow4now:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by rl:
How can you 'dial out' valve overlap? you need new cams (hence vtec killer cams, which make vtec turbo cars run like raped apes BTW) and you really don't want any.
what are the flow numbers (cfm) on a vtec head vs a non-vtec?
and the b18b with the vtec head is using vtec killer cams I would assume? also, wouldnt it have a pretty healthy compresion ratio?
Even if you kept the compression ratio the same on the B18B LS somehow (thicker headgasket, lower CR pistons, or milled the non-vtec head to raise compression on the stock LS motor), the LS-Vtec will still produce more power.Even when using stock Vtec cams,and that goes for NA or Turbo applications. As far as I know (but don't quote me on this!) a B16A head on a LS block only raises the compression by two tenths(.2) of a point.
As far as head flow numbers go, I honestly don't know what they are off hand, but you could e-mail portflow and I'm sure they would be glad to give you the numbers accompanied by some charts. Later.</font>
How would you dial it out with cam gears? advance one and retard the other? that seems as though it would fuck up the intake side...The reason I asked about compression was you wouldn't want much more than stock (what do those have, like 9.5:1?) for a turbo app..
Do they even make thicker head gaskets? if so that would only lower it like .05 of a point.
I do agree that it would make more power, but its also a lot more money. Especialy if you are going to do pistons, because you might as well do rods, and sleeve the block
vtec killer cams are simply high lift nonvtec cams (you disconnect the solenoid) I believe its the same as the roller cam kit.
I'm relatively new to the OHC Honda engine stuff, my roots lay in ford v8's
until I realized the money to be made in Honda's, not to mention they are very easy to work on, so all of my experience is from DOING -
Vtec heads flow MUCH better than non-vtec heads,this is a benefit with or without turbo. With turbo a little overlap can be good just not too much,and overlap can always be dialed out. IF ( just for arguments sake) you had a turbo B18B (non vtec Integra LS) and then put a Vtec head on it from say a B16A2, you would make more power. Period. To get a non-vtec head to flow close/same as a Vtec head it requires over a grand in head work. But to each his own I guess.</font>How can you 'dial out' valve overlap? you need new cams (hence vtec killer cams, which make vtec turbo cars run like raped apes BTW) and you really don't want any.Originally posted by slow4now:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TrboRex:
Here is my motto. FUCK VTEC. I think they invented it for ricers to brag about or something. If you are staying naturally aspirated, its alright but definetely not for turbo man. Do what you want though.
what are the flow numbers (cfm) on a vtec head vs a non-vtec?
and the b18b with the vtec head is using vtec killer cams I would assume? also, wouldnt it have a pretty healthy compresion ratio?
[ 12 May 2002, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: rl ]
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lol! get out the torches and big hammers for the h22!Originally posted by More Tools Than Columbus Racing:[QBSeriously, especially with forced induction, it makes sense to go with more cubes. Sure the B16 has proven itself to the performance aftermarket, as well as the racing world, but its an expensive engine once you start getting serious with the mods. I would recommend a turbo H22. Plenty of torque and LOTS AND LOTS of top end (in the honda world, anyways
)Go ZC and be happy.
Buy Kennys car and be even happier
[/QB]vtec cams have to much valve overlap to work as well as they could with turbos...they are made to run NA..hence why vtec sucks with turbos.
hehe, buy kenny's car.
[ 12 May 2002, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: rl ]
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The controller greddy gives you, which basically uses the MAP sensor to up the voltage to the injectors, and slighty retards the timing, it comes with the kit for 95+ civics.Originally posted by slow4now:The ZDYNE one wire conversion comes with fuel and ignition maps already optimized so there is no tuning required. What Greddy fuel control box are you speaking of? Thanks.
And I'm sorry but there is no cookie cutter optimization, it can come close, but the best way is to get it on a dyno with a wideband and play with it.
[ 12 May 2002, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: rl ]
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don't let them rip you off...you just need a new speedo cable.Originally posted by Pony Pimpstress:i'm not sure if it is the same solution... but with my stang i had a problem similar to that but my speedometer shakes horribly. i took it to the shop and they fixed the loose wires that were causing the lights to come on. they told me that i'd have to replace the whole unit up top (all the tacts) for the needle to stop shaking... it may be just because your car is a bit older it is time to change the unit. good luck, hope that helped a tiny bit.
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when you put a turbo on a b16 there is some tuning involved to maximize the combo. Its not going to run as well as it can with greddys fuel control box.Originally posted by slow4now:What ECU method was used on these swaps? If done right their is no tuning involved with just a bone stock B16A.
there are a few guys in cinci going 13.0's with b16's and a 50 shot of nitrous in civic hatchbacks...its all in tuning.
Like I told you last night, either one is going to perform better with a turbo vs a roots blower.
[ 12 May 2002, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: rl ]
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powerstroke turbos are wrong for a single on a 5.0, I belive SOME of the cummins turbos MIGHT work.
check out the junkyard turbo forum on www.mustangcentral.net some of these guys are very inteligent when it comes to doing turbo setups on 302's.
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I personaly am NOT a fan of b16 swaps, I'm sorry, but i have yet to see one run impresive numbers, I have done 2 b16a turbo's now, and brians car just flat out runs better. The money you have in a b16 is not worth the slight hp advantage you MIGHT have if you can tune it. If you want to do a b series, do a b18c turbo'd.
[ 12 May 2002, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: rl ]
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The swap is a pretty straight forward deal...any Honda engine swap is, unless you start trying to cram h22's in civics.
Rob
Trying to find a smooth, discrete way of saying that I do engine swaps for money
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heh...get a mouth gaurd for when you drop the clutch....you will understand after you barcode the pavement
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I assumed d0oe's, but you might be right.Originally posted by blupastu TSi:did he say what castings was used? I've seen 351w heads (C90E castings) flow greater than 250cfm at 0.600 with 2.02 valves.
Regardless, I doubt it is piston/valve interference.... most likely timing or plug wire in incorrect place.
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nice uneducated guess. *cough*AFR, EDELBROK, TFS, WORLD, FMS, HOLLEY*cough*Originally posted by GMBMotorSports:you cannot put 2.02 valves on a 5.0 motor without haveing the pistons cut and the block bored out cause if you look at any 5.0 head the valves are never bigger than like a 1.94
you can run 2.02 valve heads on stock 5.0 blocks, it is a common thing, SOMETIMES you have to flycut the pistons, but most of the time you don't have to (the 2.02 valves are accutlay going to hinder the flow of those heads however...you cant unshroud the valves enough in a d0oe head to utilize a 2.02 intake vavle)
It is ALWAYS a good idea to check the piston to valve clearence (clay)
however, I do not think that this is his problem...
[ 30 April 2002, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: rl ]
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none of them, save your money for a turbo kit.
talk to trborx...
[ 29 April 2002, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: rl ]
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make sure you are using the 302 HO firing order, the NON ho's are different
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Double and triple check the firing order, I don't care if you are POSITIVE that its correct....CHECK IT AGAIN.
How did you set the lash on the rockers? could they be holding the valves open? (did you torque them to 20ft/lbs slowly on the base circle with less then a full turn of the wrench?)
Have you timed it with a timing light? try to.
What kind of vacuum is it pulling?
Did you have the cam out as well, or did you not touch the short block?
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Its a brand new greddy turbo kit.Originally posted by BlackBird:I've heard of the problem on SCs under boost, does it do it when you rev it in N, or just in gear? Common solutions seem to be changing:
plugs
injectors
blower (if you're unlucky), snout(if you's lucky)
Come drive Jesses XR7, see if its the same behavior.
Whaere did you get the turbo, have anyone check it out?
I told him its prolly plugs...
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I need to hook his AF gage up for him acctualy...Originally posted by Renner:I'm thinking test the throttle position sensor first. Do you have any sort of air/fuel gauge on the car? What does it do when you try and accelerate, go too rich or too lean?
the TPS seonsor is kinda crushed (the connector) but it worked fine for weeks...maybe I'll swap throttle bodies and see if that fixes it.
4G63 Valve Breakage??????
in Tech and Tips
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wait a minute..the shortblock was fine? it didnt hurt the pistons at all? if thats the case it wasnt PV contact...where there any peices of the valve in the cylinder/ if not I would bet it was detonation 'eating' away at the valve
[ 15 May 2002, 12:58 AM: Message edited by: rl ]