gillbot

A level 2 charger requires 240v service. Most homes do not have this available. You will need to hire an electrician or know how to do the wiring. Yes your charger was $500. Now you need a 60A breaker - $50. Now you need wiring. Let's say you are within 100' of your panel. You need 100' of 4/3 Romex - $950. Your $500 charger is already $2000 and you do not have installation or any of the odds and ends you may need yet. Add in the fact that someone buying a $50k car is probably going to have a decent size home and the box may be further away adding to the cost. This is all if your home is able to handle an additional 60A draw on it's current service. Start trying to charge your car while you are cooking dinner and the wife is doing laundry and your current goes up quickly.

Most homes have 240v, maybe not where it's convenient but it IS there. You are also using examples to prove your point rather than considering the possibilities. A friend of mine has an EV, he got an RV cord and plugs his car in to his range outlet since his kitchen is right by his garage. He needed no electrician or expensive parts. He made it work within his budget rather than arguing it simply won't work.

That estimate was on a 21mpg premium fuel car. Pick up a VW Golf at 39 mpg with regular fuel and a brand new cost of $25k and it would take even longer for the break even point.

My old chevy spark got ~40MPG+ but was $8900 brand new after deals. There are CHEAP ICE cars out there with good gas mileage if that's the primary concern.

At my residence with a simple 40A sub panel split off from my house that has 100A service, I would require at least new service to my garage. More likely I would need a home upgrade to 200A and then a garage upgrade.

 

Compared to the house I moved out of just a couple years ago that still had knob and tube wiring, screw in fuses and 60A service for the whole home and garage, the current setup is not that bad for cost to setup. Look at wiring history and pre 1950 homes had 30A service, 1950-1965 had 60A and usually could only handle one 240v line (stove or dryer may be using this). The median year for when homes were built in the US is 1974. How many of those pre 1974 homes have not been upgraded or don't have the space for a dedicated 240v 60A circuit.

Electric service upgrades are going to be needed on many homes with or without EV's.

Yes, people who choose to have unusually long commutes will have a few additional decisions to make. They can buy GM's last ICE vehicle, a 2034 model, and drive it for 10 years, thus delaying all further decisions until 23 years from now. They can choose to move closer to their place of work. Or they can upgrade their shitty house wiring.

 

Seems like there are plenty of options and so the market doesn't need to worry about those folks.

Tech is getting better, charging is getting better. I'd love to see a hybrid that can be forced into all electric mode for every day short driving but can use an ICE for charging or propulsion on long trips when charging isn't readily available.

Some people in here sound like they think people were trying to put hay in their cars fuel tanks when they first came out.

How many tried diesel and vice versa. :lolguy:

I am often mobile until 11pm or midnight. I am back up on the road by 5am. This gives me a 5-6 hr charge window. Work and back with no traffic or detours is 110 miles. Add in any errands etc. This is all if I do not run a middle of the night emergency call. To meet these demands, I would need a long range model. 2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range is $45k. $20k more than my current car. Add $6k for a Level 2 charger. It would take 147,967 miles before I broke EVEN on just the purchase price of the car and charger. Adding in the cost of electricity at $0.12/kwh it would take an additional 33,684 miles to break even. That is 181,650 miles vs. my 21mpg premium gas current vehicle.

My current travels would put me in a similar situation. The part that I disagree with is the fact that people buy dumb SUV's and trucks as opposed to a very fuel efficient small car. There are plenty of ways to be more fuel efficient with an ICE but people would rather burn gas in a truck then complain about costs.

Some of this info is correct, but I've been using my Tesla for field service for the last year (~45k miles). I've driven it from Las Vegas back to Illinois, over to Virginia, up to Wisconsin, South Dakota, etc. The charging doesn't really get in the way since I'm usually stopping to eat or use the restroom after driving for several hours. The winter driving is fairly accurate but apparently the newer cars are using a heat pump instead of resistive heat which doesn't eat into range as much. Still, I can get to anywhere I need to go, even when it's cold.

 

My home charger works great and was easy to install. #6 wire to a 60A breaker. No big deal.

 

Edit:

 

 

 

My charger was $500. YMMV.

My level 2 charger cost me nothing. 220v 30amp socket in the garage already. Tesla plugs right in with the included adapter. Electric is not for everyone but I’m baffled by all this misinformation and fear.

Same here, but I have 75A service in my garage already. Unfortunately many don't know enough about electric and electric vehicles so they aren't prepared for the caveats of an all electric vehicle. This is also my same issue with just having electric vehicles forced upon the general population. Hell, most of the general population don't know their cars need oil changes ffs.

Hi James, Been a while

 

Away lifting and working

I've been working about 80hours a week

Got a place in Dublin near Muirfield

So not to much time for cars

I sold my Camaro, drove a Challenger a while, sold that now I have a Jeep and work a lot.

gay

There’s the normal Cr welcome greeting.

Gratz.

It says "gun buy back", not "brick buy back".

I read it as a for-profit-scheme myself. Pay $50 for a high point, get $100 card. Seems simple?

Agree but I don't go around living my life around exceptions or such rare instances. None of us should. I think the saying is something to the effect that In the persuit of perfection we miss out on excellence. dumb.

I’m not taking a side, but that’s an easy statement to make when you aren’t on the receiving end of such hate.

End of day the number of actual number of cases like MN are single digit low per year if that. Out of millions of encounters. To freak out over those odds is stupid and pure media hype.

Unless you are the recipient of that “one in a million encounter”.

Am I though? Is there another way to interpret this without coming to that conclusion:

You can interpret it however you see fit, others have that same choice. You cannot decide what they interpret. You are trying to skew their interpretation by claiming to state fact, when it is mostly your opinion.

I am going to get accused of that no matter what. I tried the hit 'em with facts way, I tried the appeal to sensibility, I tried being polite and it didn't change a thing. I kinda like the feed them a counterpoint in their own aggressive tough talk rhetoric the best, not because it's effective just because its personally satisfying.

Why do you feel the need to “hit them with facts” though, let them have their opinions and state yours, then walk away. You just argue for the sake of arguing.

I'll be honest, I find this to be the greater value in conversations like this. I know I am not going to change Joe's mind, but if it is out there for someone else to read and find merit in both sides and really think about it and make their own decision then its worth it.

Personally, I think it would carry more influence if it didn’t come off as soapboxing, but that’s just my $0.02 and probably not worth a cent.

According to Joe, In every single case it was 100% your fault that happened. Do you agree?

 

Remember his argument is that in cases where interactions with LEO's go bad it was because the person was not acting appropriately and that the reason it happens more often with people of color is because they are trained to fear and hate police and therefore escalate the situation.

The difference is, I’m not here to argue against someone else’s opinion like yourself. He is entitled to his thoughts, you yours and me mine. I’m not soapboxing trying to undermine or sway anyone to my opinion.

I can see value in his thoughts as well as some in yours. Unfortunately the current climate has people either trying to further support what they believe or arguing on behalf that the other side is wrong. That is my only opinion on the matter.

I have never had an officer handcuff me, point a pistol at me, even ask me to step out of the vehicle. a couple of them have even let me go without a warning.

I have had all of those happen at one point in time, mainly in my much younger days. I am not here to marginalize the experiences of those who do fear an encounter with LEO's, but to ask that you think before you speak.

Me and my brother would go camping with my aunt, uncle and cousin growing up. My uncle has his own construction company so he always had single cab 8' bed trucks with truck caps. My aunt and uncle would sit up front. The hills and turns down in south-east Ohio and up in the Mohican area are a ton of fun in the back of a truck when you've no idea they are coming.

I've slid around in the back of a truck a time or two. My brother in law would go flying down country roads in his old Chevy and i'd lie flat on my back in the bed looking up sliding all over the place as he drove. Poor hillbilly rollercoaster!!