Moto-Brian

The tires on the Ninja are just as capable as the tires on a CBR. Now, you are saying the Ninja has shit tires and the CBR has good tires. The Ninja is capable of a higher corner speed. Limited by the tires if you say, the light weight and cornerspeed capacity will at worse, equal the CBR. The Keyhole example I think you are using is a good example. The Ninja doesn't have to let off and settle into the turn and use throttle modulation to adjust line and needle through the series of turns. At the top of the keyhole, the Nonja's corner speed is amazing. It again isn't having to use throttle modulation to maintain the line and speed. The 600 is heavier. I've ridden everything from RC8R to Ninja 250s to Super Dukes on OEM tires around Mid-Ohio. Even a 600... I can tell you that it takes a little mind wrapping to get the idea that you can carry more corner speed on the 250. Reason being, off a liter bike through those series of turns and you aren't carrying as much corner speed at the smaller bikes. Why do you think a 600 can run a faster lap than a liter bike at tighter tracks? Same brand of tires, same rider... Tires are tires. Bikes are bikes. The OEM stuff on both bikes have limits. But, the Ninja weighs a ton less. It has a lot less mass being tossed around. We are talking tight turn stuff. Dog legs and such, not so much. The little bikes weigh less, can carry higher corner speed. You don't let off as soon, you hammer the throttle sooner w/o upsetting the chassis, you can drive through the turn at apex at a higher rate of speed. On race tires or OEM tires. Can I run a faster lap on the 600 vs the 250? Sure. But we are talking corner speed. Where the Ninja shines is in the tight technical stuff that is marginally, similar no matter what bike you ride. Where the bike suffers is drive out, straightline speed and overall average MPH on a bigger course. Think of it this way. Would you go faster around the go kart track on a YSR with those old stock tires or a CBR 600 on current OEM sticky tires? Your answer should be the YSR...

Almost all the same gayness will be at Nelson as I think a majority of the group is also going to be at Nelson. I think in all seriousness, he should race vs track day with a sardine group of riders all wanting to set the fastest lap time of the group...

Dude, you don't get it. The gear you were in at 10 mph doesn't allow for slipping. There is not enough power under the load you are giving the bike. The motor at 10 mph in 5th gear is at such a low rpm that you could literally grab and twist the throttle to the stop and it will most likely bog so badly and damn near stall that it will not slip. You don't "slip" the rear and fall. You can spin the rear, grab traction and get spit off. That happens. You crashed WAY early according to the pic. That tells me you panic and grab brakes and lost it. No offense, but you telling me how to take a turn is somewhat funny... 25 mph turn on your bike in 3rd vs 2nd is minimal. The thing you are not understanding about your bike is the revs and getting the most out of that motor. The rpms need to be higher to get the power to the ground on a 250. Their redline is SUPER high and they run like sewing machines. At 25 mph and "traction" as you call it is going to be the same in both gears. How you handle the bike dictates how you apply that power and thus, the "traction" as you call it. You ham fist it in 2nd gear and do it wrong, you can spin the rear. You do it smooth, you can apply load and have good traction coming out on exit. If you shift up to 3rd, you can get the same traction, just will have to apply throttle and less brake and carry a higher corner speed. See what I mean? I can obtain the same level of traction and even possibly more at a higher gear. But, not in 5th. You lug the motor, you fail to apply efficient power to the rear wheel. Doesn't matter what you did, traction was traction. You couldn't have lost it on the rear with those elements... Either way, you don't understand how it is supposed to work. You need a class. You need to make time for a class or you are going to be a statistic. You arguing on "traction" is a sign that you need to get educated and understand how these things work. They are not cars, trucks, snowmobiles, etc. The gyroscopic effect of a motorcycle make it nothing like you already know. I'm not being mean to you, but I am getting a bit tired of reading the ill-educated responses. GET EDUCATED! Saturday. If you love your family, take a class and do something with them at a later date. Again, tough to have fun with the family while in a coma or on life support.

Honestly, the 250 can corner exceptionally well. In fact, that turn, no bike is going to have a real advantage. It's not a turn where you are going to be able to rail so much faster on a 600 that is heavier, will be at a higher terminal velocity in approach and needing much more braking to get slowed, etc. The idea is that lighter bikes like the 250 will actually be able to carry higher corner speed in that type of turn than even a 600 RR as you mention. Take a Moto GP 125. Even skinnier tires than the 250 Ninja has. will rail through a corner as fast or in most cases, faster than a 600 in almost any given turn. Light, high corner speed. The dirtbike deal is silly in of itself. Same ability rider will go faster on the Ninja vs the knobby bike if taking the corner the same way on each. I can show you a guy that can rail a scooter through a turn faster than a guy on a liter bike. Ability can make some people look terrible... Point is that what you guys are arguing is moot. Ninja is a great handling bike. The tires are perfectly fine at a set speed. Will they fail at certain corner speeds? Sure. But that bike can corner like on rails and a lot higher corner speed through something like that turn than a CBR 600 would. And certainly faster than a KLR that is as heavy as a tank.

This is a possibility also, but I would think he would have mentioned the bike stalled. It would have made a chug and quit. The picture helps a ton. One, he crashed on the right side. He said he slid. I do not know how you lean left at 10 mph in a turn that can handle more in 5th gear lugging the motor and you slide on the right side. I just am baffled at the right side deal at 10 mph! He didn't highside (don't think you can at 10 mph), he didn't crash hard from the pics so, what did happen???

I'm not going to rehash here, but at 10 mph and now you saying you were in 5th gear, you lost the front from too much brake. You were unsure and most likely tucked the front. You DO NOT spin up and lose the rear at 10mph lugged in 5th. Again, take a freakin course, man. You shouldn't have been anywhere near 5th gear on a Kaw 250 doing 10mph. And trust me, to get the rear to spin even on gravel at 10 mph in 5th is near impossible without slipping the shit out of the clutch. I don't think I could even get a dirt bike to do that in loose dirt. You lost the front.

We raced the last night event there. It was VERY sketchy. The fog that came in, the erie feeling when running in the very back area of the track, the fact that the reflective tape got pulled up in certain turns, etc. All were crazy and the track was pretty much the same as it is now. I think my fast time on the 750 in the dark was a high 1:15 or 1:16 low... That was when we had someone like Vesrah or Velocity come up behind with the lights. I think Tray pulled :12s!!

You're right. And, on those double shock rear ends and 35 hp bikes, we still pulled faster lap times than you do. BOOM!!

Mad- You need to sell that piece of shit entry to Putnam and come to Nelson instead. It's going to be packed, cold and a ton of cluster going on. Plus, the savings would be more to not do Putnam and do Nelson anyways...

And, as far as getting more spectators is concerned, yes... The race orgs can do a better job. BUT, more people running around is more of a risk that they are going to have to use that insurance. Using that insurance can get to a point where if they use it more often than not, they can risk losing it all together. Lose insurance? We lose a place to race. Again, not the focus. What the orgs NEEEEEED to focus on is attracting more racers. More racers makes them more money and allows them to stick around and allows us a place to race. MS is doing that every year that I have seen. And, I have been UBER critical of them for a while. Last year showed me that the few times I have been racing with them even back to when Bob was around, they are better than ever before and have addressed almost every issue I have had. That's getting better. That's doing things in the interest of attracting more racers. That's the overall goal. How about worrying less about the stupid $10 gate fee and worry more about your race program and what you can do to make YOU better. Or, take that energy and try and get more racers to come to MS. I don't ever see any posts from you actually promoting MS to anyone and suggesting them they should come out and race. Instead, I see a lot of this type of stuff. Take that focus and make it positive.

Dude, you are so off base that it is funny. I don't mean to make you sound like you don't know what you are talking about, but EVERY Amateur sporting event related to racing is a pay event. You CANNOT compare racing to ball sports. But, if you want to, there are fees to play in every system around the US. My kid plays to pay in everything he does. Tell me why he has to pay hundreds of bucks to play a single sport? Same reasons... AMA Pro Racing BARELY pulls a paying crowd? WHAT???? SERIOUS??? 10k to 30k plus of fans attend every AMA Pro Road Race event on the circuit. AMA Pro Racing SX? Have you looked at any stadium that is filled lately since say, 1970? Really??? Barely isn't the word I would use. THEN... THEN to compare to the NFL... Here's the bottom line. The sport is expensive. If Johnny wants to play a baseball game in localville, USA and there are what, 2-3 people per player that shows to watch, you have maybe 70-100 people watching in a public park with the ability to come and go and watch from anywhere. Same with playing Midget League football or soccer at a field in a park. High school is a pay to watch event. Fenced in, students still pay, parents, etc. What, maybe a couple of thousand people attend? Do you bitch because you have to pay to get in? Players do not, but again, each of those kids have had to pay to play that sport. They don't get to keep their helmets, they don't get to keep anything. In some cases, not even their jerseys. You as a parent could be considered the player as you are paying to have them play and THEN you have to pay to get into the field to watch your son play. Every game... Road racing isn't a sport that is played in a field behind a City Water Station. It isn't a sport ran in a public park. The INSURANCE for one race alone is more than what it costs to run even a top tier High school baseball team for a whole season. You can avoid the gate fees by pulling your car along side the road out front and watch from the fence. That saves $10. First and foremost, these organizations DO NOT - repeat - DO NOT cater nor wish to really attract spectators. Reason being is the insurance. But, that $10 helps with a shit load of things on both paying the track and paying the insurance. Honestly, wait til the day that some doucher takes his KX85 that he brings to stroll around the pits to watch and flips it in the infield doing wheelies and breaks his neck. You think the $10 per person might come into play? As for paying to play, we as the "show" as some think it is becomes rather silly to think of that way. We are not the show. Now, you figure out how to get say, 10k people to watch us race at Nelsons and you will probably get the race org to drop our gate fees. BUT, even the AMA Pro Racing requires their guys to pay to enter. How? Race license. You pay to race with them. That fee also gets you in every event with that hard card. THEN, you pay to have a SET NUMBER of crew members. It's expensive. THEN, you are REQUIRED to have pit shirts with the set sponsors on them. That's a cost to get in and race also. THEN, you need to pay entry fees. All of this is because of a few different things on AMA's side. You can argue that if there are 30k attending Mid-Ohio for example, AMA should have enough that they don't or shouldn't have to charge Josh Hayes to race that event. They should WANT him to race and pay HIM to race. But, he races for money. In any business, guess what? You pay to make money. No different. Gate fees make sense. The guys that bitch about paying to get in? They haven't been doing it long and do not understand the behind the scenes things and certainly don't know about what goes on in other sports. Then to make it an argument that it isn't a good business model to attract new spectators and yet, that's not the intention, is another sign of being out of touch. Now, to look at it another way, those spectators are paying $10. For the amount of racing they get to watch and the length of time that sport takes in a day, they are getting more bang for the buck than anything else that costs a lot more. Don't go comparing road racing at a club level to NFL football. That's stupid. Comparing it to High School is better, but again, as exampled above, the rules are the same. The sports are polar opposites, but the end results are the same. Pay to play, pay to get in. I'm done as this is typical of new racers that feel they are the show and shouldn't have to pay to get in. I've been on that side also when I started. I couldn't figure it out. But, I played a LOT of baseball and of all the people, my dad explained that it was actually the proper way to do things. Then, Sean explained it to me when I asked and as the 18 years have come and gone, I have learned a lot about the behind the scenes stuff. You just look really bad to be on here bitching about it as it looks like MS is trying to make a buck off you in a wrong way. Like they are being greedy. That's completely off base and nowhere near what they are trying to do. If you knew the costs and knew what the risks were for this business model, you wouldn't be complaining...

Dude, a small 1"x1" white Avery label isn't less gay than vinyl numbers from Lowe's that are probably at least 1" tall? With your three digit number, it's gonna look like ass on there. A small white decal is WAY better than that!

CCS rule. We used white Avery labels and wrote our numbers on them for the AMA RRGC race in 2010. Simple. On the bike? Use painter's tape and then use colored duct tape and make a #...

Best idea, but still need tape. Keeps the shattered plastic from scattering on the track if you go down...

And MX is how much cheaper than road racing?

BUT YOU WERE STILL PAYING THE FEES!!!! Look, guys... NESBA... Look at their cuts and what they've ended up having to do. They are also non-profit. They also do not have a race series. Mid-Ohio is as mentioned above. As for the private events, again, it is the track holding those events and they make it via your track day or private event fees. MS rents the track. The contract typically is that Nelson will get a set fee and that is usually through the gate. Then, the entry fees are to the organization. MS is a profit making organization and needs to make money to keep doing this for all of us. Their fees are legit and actually competitive and really, pretty cheap. Sign up for the race and the track day on Saturday is REALLY cheap. This gate fee thing is seriously overkill to talk about. If it were $20 a day? Sure. But, $10/day is really more than fair... in truth, it is $20 if you arrive for the start of the race day if it were WERA. That may have changed, but that is what it used to be and then $10 at noon or halfway through the day and $10 for spectators...

Mid-Ohio does it's own track events and has that built in to the track day fee. Again, this is completely normal - especially any race weekends... If someone doesn't have $20 capable of being in their pockets and it sets them back because they cannot use their CC, I think racing isn't a good idea...

Guys, it will be great. Any day at the track is better than any day not. Just be safe. THINK and DO NOT push to make a pass or try and make a move that could be iffy. Just wait and pounce later. One thing I will say, if it is that packed, it is going to be tough. BUT, realize one thing. Ride for YOU. DON'T try and keep up with buddies, DON'T try and push to a set lap time, etc. ALWAYS think that if it feels too packed or too sketchy, pull in and wait for a gap. It's really easy to do and the result is a time to take a breather and then get a little clear time before it starts again. Anyways, BE SAFE! And, you fags going to Moto Series, make sure you come back with everything intact. We need you at the Moto Series as this year is going to be epic and we need to have some fun!!

I don't get it. It's the same damn thing. Typically, the track gets that or a portion. Logistically, it's easier to make it seperate. It's that way everywhere man. No matter who you race with. An age old debate.

Oh, and if the bars bent and you straightened them out, they are compromised and should be replaced. Now, if they turned on the fork tube and simply turned inward and did not bend, they are fine. The OEM bars are a cast material and when they bend, they tend to get small fractures. Small fractures can lead to failure. Although I myself have even ridden a bike with bent bars, it is something you should replace if that is the case... Good excuse to get clip-ons...

Riding the clutch??? Dude, you really need some class stuff pronto. The 2 days excuse is fine. You'll have a LOT more days off when you are laying in a bed with your sustained injuries from poor information and lack of ability. Not trying to be a hard ass, but you are showing that you have close to zero experience and from the sounds of it, very little knowledge on how a bike even operates. Thus, it is only a matter of time that you will get hurt and be out for at least 2 days recovering. Take the days off. Everyone gets vacation days. It's the law. You do too and can make the MSF stuff... If you are going to "try" things after "watching" others and have such little grasp as to how these things work, you are destined to get in trouble... The problem is that with motorcycles, the capacity of getting seriously hurt is so great that the likelihood is very high...

Trust me, I understand the ease of leaning a bike. But, if you crashed and slide at 10mph and not sure how it occurred, you need to get a course like the MSF for sure. Just as a side note, guys that weigh way less than you can lean a bike that weighs 800 lbs. It's how you understand the basics that allows you to ride a bike and ride it well. Don't take that as a jab at you or anything. But, you crashing a bike at 10 mph while changing the throttle input and braking is a sign to me that you are a first time rider and not confident. Those things can equal serious injury or death in certain scenarios. I'd put the bike away until you can get some instruction. Then, take the class and try it all again. The last thing I want to see is someone getting killed from doing something wrong...

With a classroom organization? Anywhere between $130 and $200 for a day. You get around 7 sessions and about 20 minutes each session... WAY cheap when you figure out what you will learn and what experience you will receive.

Dude, no offense, but how do you slide in a crash at 10mph? You had to have jabbed the brakes in a panic. This is another sign to get to an MSF course and at least consider a track day after... You can actually corner at a lean at 10mph???

The thing is, how does the gate person know you are coming back? They can give you a two day arm band, I guess, but again, it would be $20. Trust me, $10/day is typical and the norm. Pretty cheap considering it costs that much for a 2 hour movie now...