vw151

Yeah me too. I feel a lot of people have chastised me for putting this information on the web but defective pads or not defective pads I've certainly learned a lot about what COULD cause a failure. Since it's out that there have been a few failures in the past with the same compound I am really curious what was determined in those cases and what one could look for on their backing plate to determine if they might be effected by the same problem or if in fact all of these failures were user error. All kidding aside I'm not saying that isn't possible. I noticed the 2251-C44 42/5 marking but I don't know if it is of any real significance.

be nice guys. I think he's really trying his best to help. He's obviously not gonna get on the forum and jump on the CL pads are junk bandwagon.

So you are suggesting the pad material cracked along the back plate? I would buy that for a dollar, however it's still a pretty big problem. What were the problems that were found with Jenson and Brian's pads? Did their pads look like this as well?

Mathias, I apologize for my slowness. I have dropped the pads in the mail today at lunch. I never made it to Dayton Saturday and had a very busy day at work yesterday. They said you should receive them tomorrow. 0310 0480 0001 0557 7533 I look forward to hearing what the people in France have to say

It seems there are a lot of opportunities to demo these things. I've never had enough interest to demo one instead of any of the actual bikes though. Mid OH vintage days they will probably have them again this year.

Wow, those look pretty bad. Brian, I wish I would have paid more attention to which pad was paired together when I pulled them out. I didn't really look at the markings on the back to differentiate the pads until I got home. So all I have is the markings, don't know which pads where on which rotor.

I did the best I could to capture what they looked like but the far left one looked kinda bad. The 2 in the middle seemed pretty decent to me. The only one in person that seemed pretty out of the ordinary to me was the far left. It was also the other pad that was marked 42/5 on the back . I am not sure what those number are for but it's the only thing that differentiated the pads.

Just wanted to share some more details. I plan to. Most of the people I ride on the track with regularly are running the same pads or the SBK pads. So what was the recommendation for folks that have the C44 pads? Mathias more or less told me that the C44 pads and C55 pads should be identical in terms of reliability. He gave me the same song and dance I heard on the wera forum about keeping the pistons/pucks clean, dragging pads can cause this problem, and don't use brake cleaner use soap and water. He also admitted to having this problem with these pads in 2007 but didn't say how many cases. He was very nice but basically told me very little. Having said that I have taken more pictures of the pads and noticed a few things. The pad that failded had this inscribed on the back plate. 2251-C44 42/5 here is a picture for referance. I noticed that the only other pad I had that had the same inscription looked a little ate up. I also had 2 pads that had the inscription 2251-C44 09/5 They seemed to be in better shape. anyway, here are all of the pictures I took today. I thought about only posting the good one's but I figured what the hell you can all judge as well as I can. So enjoy. I think you can see in the pictures the pad that is crumbling more than the others. It is the one that is marked 42/5 but is not missing it's friction material. Of course the one missing it's friction material entirely is the other 42/5 brake pad. I won't tell anyone what to do, but in my humble opinion. If your brake pads say 2251-C44 42/5 I would replace them. I'm just a lowly track day rider who can provide no discounts or refunds but my opinion is that. I've got to admit. My work bench looks pretty sweet albeit nerdy as well.

Brian, I sincerely appreciate your apology. I may be a picture whore and I might even like reading everyone's response to stuff like this but at the end of the day I'm just trying to look out for my fellow rider. I'm glad you came around. I was sincerely frightened by my situation and genuinely pissed off. I just wanted to share because this sort of thing isn't something I'd wish on my enemy.

When you say "this shit" do you mean "Brian" ??? Just wondering..... he's really the only one who has really gone out of his way on all of the forums to make it my fault and tell me I'm wrong for sharing. Most everyone else has pretty much just had constructive criticism in my eyes even if it was served with a side of bad attitude. I'm trying to keep an open mind but admittedly Brian's posts pissed me off a little. I wonder why Brian didn't call Drew out for saying the name in his thread? Maybe to maintain some level of secrecy. I guess I just don't get it either. Is more information not better than less information.

lol, I expect it from you guys.

Are you talking about this post? It seems drew sort spilled the beans in the end but there was no say about whether it was C44s or SBK pads and Brian also seems to actually fully admit a batch issue. http://www.ohio-riders.com/showthread.php?t=14233

How come you don't have me quoted saying that. I spoke with Mathias. He is giving me a new set of pads, sending the old Pads to France to be looked at. I just typed a big assed response to someone on the wera forum. I'll just post it here too cause it says what I want to say and more. starts with a quote from the wera guy. If you'd like to read the identical thread over there see this link http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=248353 It seems it was most popular there. My main reason for posting was awareness and gather insight. I won't lie and tell you I wasn't pissed off when it happened, but then again wouldn't you be? Although I suspected the problem was due to a defective pad I certainly was not ruling out the possibility that some negligence on my part was not to blame. There is obviously no good way for me to prove one way or the other but I have gathered a lot of good advice from people and it is there for everyone to see. Before this happened I was not aware that it ever happened. Some of you might scoff at me for not knowing all of these things but I have only been playing track rider for about 2 years, you can't just start out knowing everything. I wondered myself whether it was me or defective pads. I'm leaning towards defective pads but the pictures and video and dialog is there. You are all welcome to be the judge, I really don't care what you think as long as you are aware of the facts. You know at the very least, I'll know to inspect my brake pads more closely to see if they are delaminating no matter what the brand. Might seem like common sense to some but not all of us have the years of hard knocks to look back on. I have no intention of driving Carbone Lorraine out of business or smearing their name and I don't really believe that little old me and my youtube video really has the clout to do that anyway. I have heard very good things about their products and I am a realistic person who realizes that these things happen from time to time. In fact, prior to the failure I was very impressed with the feel and stopping power they added compared to the stock pads. However, if they do in fact have a defective product on the market then people deserve to know about it at the very least. It doesn't seem that their pads are all junk but it does seem that there may have been a bad batch of the C44 race pads about 2 years back that could still be being sold through some distributors. Probably even more likely to be sold to someone like me running a 2003 GSX-R750 which is a few generations old and probably doesn't generate the demand of the newer bikes. I have spoken to Mathias on the phone. He is giving me a new set of the latest pads and I am giving him mine to get evaluated. He is going to send them back to France to be looked at. I am happy with that. I am not sure what else I could want from him. I didn't get injured or die and if I had I'm not the type to sue but I think it's a serious issue none the less. BTW, you are all right, Mathias is very pleasant to deal with and seems like an all around good and knowledgeable guy, he resonated some of the same advice I have heard on the board tonight about cleaning pistons, not running the pads too long, and so on and so forth. However he did not confirm there was a defective pad on the market but did admit to having this issue back in 2007 at least once. I didn't press him on the issue any further than that. Further, I have heard of more than 1 instance of this exact pad failing. I have received a few PMs on several boards from people that did not want to raise a stink explaining they had the same thing happen. Lizard1 also had a post awhile back where he had the same thing happen but didn't name the pad. He actually had the failure at very high speed on Mid-OH's back straight. It has since came out that he was running the exact same pad as me. Surely, Lizard1, the ex AMA rider and long time STT instructor had properly maintained brakes on his super sport prepped GSX-R1000 when he was running this pad. I'm just saying. This is one of the reasons I don't understand why he of all people is not supporting me in making people aware. It just seems that multiple failures of a very specific type of pad suggests there was a defect. Even if it was just a limited run or batch. Do you want to let your friends run this risk? Lastly. I posted a cut down version of this video in my Barber Report thread because it was part of the "bad day" I had on Sunday. My bike had a few problems that day. I felt that once I had an edited video of the brake pad failure it deserved it's own thread. I only posted it on all the forums that I'm a member on because I wanted everyone to see it. Sorry to those of you who are on multiple boards as well it's just something you'll have to deal with reading the same thing over and over. It seems to be most popular here on the wera board though.

Thanks for the applause, obviously I am feeling the same way. This is dangerous. BTW, I was just counting it up. I bought those pads last summer. I ran 1 day at Putnam in July I group 1 day at Barber in October I group 1.5 days at CMP in November (it rained Sunday so I went home early) A Group 2 days at barber in March A group day 2 at Barber in the 3rd session is when the pad failed.

It was fate that I ran that camera angle that session. I had been trying out new angels and though a shot that included the brake lever would be cool. In retrospect I may have adjusted it a little differently but oh well. Funny thing was, point the camera at the brake lever and the brakes fail. Go figure.

Lolz..... I'm a picture whore what can I say.

Brian, I'm not putting fear into people's heads. A brake pad delaminating is scary all by itself. If the pad was worn out then that is fine. I'll take your advice and look for this in the future. As I've stated I'm relatively green. I am also hearing that this is a result of a bad batch and that this happened to you and others. Which is it. I'm curious about other people's experience. Has anyone else had this happen, with or with out Carbone Lorraine pads. I tend to agree with the people that are saying that this is unacceptable but am also very interested in learning how to do everything I can to prevent this. Frankly the whole thing scared the shit out of me. As I've said on the other forums. I'll Call Mathias but I don't see the harm in sharing this with everyone I know. It's dangerous.

but 4 monitor + 1 projector = 5 total screens > 4 monitor > 3 monitor > 2 monitor just sayin......

I haven't yet. I have been told Mathias at spiegler, who is the US distributor needs to see them. I'll get them to him. I've just been really busy since I got back from Barber.

what you see is what I saw when I took the brakes apart. No friction material at all on the back plate. It seemed to have completely separated. supposedly this is from a bad batch. Just thought I'd let people know.

A few weeks ago I had a brake pad failure at Barber. I just wanted to share it with the rest of you so you can take the necessary precautions. What you are seeing is a brake pad failure where it seems the friction material separated from the back plate all at once causing a gap in the brakes which caused a sudden loss of brake pressure. The brake pressure came back as I got into the pits because the back plate made contact with the rotor. Luckily I didn't damage the rotor because it happened right before pit entrance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB-GJlRCA34

Here are some more. I swear I'm gonna get the video edited soon.

Still learning to use quicktime pro and adobe premier to edit these videos rather than windows movie maker as I was using before. Just learned to make pictures. Anyone much of an expert in the video editing dept? I have a few questions that are pretty basic.

5x10 would be very nice. Starting to get a little big to pull with a car though, especially if you put a storage box full of crap up near the tongue. what size wheels?