Not your usual pro/anti gun article

[smccrory]

Very interesting challenge to the status quo, including some opinions I hold.

You'll likely be offended no matter where you sit, so if you can't handle informed debate for debate's sake, hit the back button now!

http://www.cracked.com/article_20396_5-mind-blowing-facts-nobody-told-you-about-guns.html/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=fanpage&utm_campaign=new+article&wa_ibsrc=fanpage

[Tigerpaw]

It was worth a good laugh.

[Connie14]

Interesting. Freakonomics also had an interesting take on the gun control issue.

[Gixxus Christ!]

They conveniently omitted the fact that the uptick in mass shootings correlated with the shift in our mental health system from institutionalization to medication and the resulting closure of all the nut houses, or the fact that a staggering percentage of shooters are on some type of anti depressant drug....Also he calls AR 15 type trifles 'assault rifles' and that pisses me off...

[smccrory]

I'm not sure it was a convenient omission - deinstitutionalism started in the 60s and should have played out sooner.

What I enjoy about the article is that it's pretty much an equal opportunity piss-offer.

[Tigerpaw]

What I enjoy about the article is that it's pretty much an equal opportunity piss-offer.

 

It may have appeared that way on the surface, but was definitely anti-gun.

[Gixxus Christ!]

I'm not sure it was a convenient omission - deinstitutionalism started in the 60s and should have played out sooner.

What I enjoy about the article is that it's pretty much an equal opportunity piss-offer.

Why do you think deinstitutionalizing should have happened sooner? What was so bad about putting all the crazies somewhere they can be looked after?

[Gixxus Christ!]

Also you're wrong. Kennedy signed a bill increasing funding to build more mental hospitals in 63. It wasn't until 84 when Reagan cut them out of the budget that mental hospitals started closing down.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

I don't know how you read that as anything but a gun control piece,.

[smccrory]

I don't know how you read that as anything but a gun control piece,.

Easy. I just don't grasp my gun and grit my teeth as firmly.

[smccrory]

Why do you think deinstitutionalizing should have happened sooner? What was so bad about putting all the crazies somewhere they can be looked after?

That's not what I meant, sorry - too hurried of word choices using my iPhone. What I meant was that the crazies let out in the 60s should have shown an increase in violence in the 70s, not the 90s and again this decade.

As an aside, my feelings about psych wards are complex and too long to type at the moment. Suffice it to say that the street is no place for a functional paranoid, but neither is a dingy institution that has a hardon for haldol.

[Tigerpaw]

Easy.

What opinions of yours, did the article change?

 

What did you find interesting?

 

 

I thought the 2/3 of gun deaths are suicides to be interesting.

[Gixxus Christ!]

Again, they didn't start closing them down till the late 70's early 80's...and these mass shootings aren't being done by people who have been institutionalized and then released but by people who should probably be institutionalized but were instead medicated and ignored because there is more profit in it.

[smccrory]

Again, they didn't start closing them down till the late 70's early 80's...and these mass shootings aren't being done by people who have been institutionalized and then released but by people who should probably be institutionalized but were instead medicated and ignored because there is more profit in it.

Ok I see your point. To be fair, identification and care of potentially violent mental issues can be hard as hell and that's what scares me - society's lack of wherewithal to provide that kind of attention. It's so much easier to vilify black guns.

I was reminded of that again today caring for my Down's uncle who is aggressively refusing medical care meant to cure his chronic pneumonia. How many capable people hide their symptoms or refuse care only to end up in desperate, twisted head spaces without moral self-control?

[smccrory]

What opinions of yours, did the article change? What did you find interesting? I thought the 2/3 of gun deaths are suicides to be interesting.

I agree that was intriguing. I certainly wouldn't be ok with banning guns to prevent suicides, but there's a complicating reality - access to guns during self-harm or revenge impulses is a very real problem.

I think there's a better middle ground where we gun owners can be more creatively holistic about the context of guns. This whole binary pro/anti thing is tiresome and neanderthalic and will just guarantee continued polarity. Articles like these may help break up the logjam, though I won't hold my breath. People on all sides gotta open their ears up first.

Just my 2c.

[Pokey]

Lets add shitty parenting into the mix as well, many mass shooters have Mommy and Daddy issues as well.

[smccrory]

Lets add shitty parenting into the mix as well, many mass shooters have Mommy and Daddy issues as well.

 

Good point, and that's an extra biggie because they're the same people who would be the first to identify and manage potentially violent mental health issues before they're acted out.

[chevysoldier]

The real reason for crime? Lead. Leaded gasoline, leaded paint, etc.

http://m.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline

[kiggy74]

Sorry, but that article (especially consdering that it's quoting a study from Mother Jones of all places) is complete garbage.  You can't have a "discussion" about these topics if the "facts" you use to make your point are misleading, out of context, and ignore other relevant facts (i.e. the fact that the violent crime rate involving guns is on a constant decline over the last 30 years, and that cities with the most restrictive gun laws also have the highest crime rates).

 

I agree that this is a polarizing issue, and that as a result few legitimate solutions to the problem can be found in such an environment.  I also believe that the pro 2A crowd need to take the lead on increasing awareness around crime and sensible gun ownership, including making safe gun storage one the commandments to safe gun ownership.

 

But I also feel that each time a mass shooting occurs those who don't like guns stand on the graves and wave the bloody shirts of the victims to make use of an opportunity to get rid of the thing they don't like.  For example, none of the legislation passed in New York would have any impact on preventing Sandy Hook.

I also believe that each time new gun legislation is suggested that the anti-gun legislators stand on their boxes asking for "common sense" reforms and for a "compromise" to improve public safety.  The problem is that their compromises only include infringements on the right, and no enhancements.  For example, I'll give you universal background checks if you defund/disband the ATF.  Now there's a compromise.  Or I'll give you improved mental health reporting into NICS if you make all class 3 weapons fully legal and unrestricted.

 

Unfortunately when it comes to compromise, the only comprimising that's ever suggested if for law abiding gun owners to compromise a RIGHT (not a privelage) that is guaranteed by the constitution.  So yeah, consider me polarized.

Edited January 2, 2014 by kiggy74

[magley64]