Tonik Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 13 minutes ago, TwiztedRabbit said: solid pace at both those tracks... any faster and (currently) your flirting with disaster... not ness. in mid corner but as you trail brake in or get on the gas out.. you are really close to edge of traction zones. it truly is keeping you from obtaining more corner speed as physically at that angle you cant go faster. Honest question why is lud on the edge but this guy isn't wrecking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tall_tracy Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 20 minutes ago, Tonik said: Honest question why is lud on the edge but this guy isn't wrecking? My guess would be body position, but I'm no track expert or even mediocre in my track knowledge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motocat12 Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tonik said: Honest question why is lud on the edge but this guy isn't wrecking? there's so much rubber on the track that he gets a different friction bracket? Depth of the turn and amount of corner left? in the pic lud appears to have a late apex. Edited October 13, 2017 by motocat12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, motocat12 said: there's so much rubber on the track that he gets a different friction bracket? He actually isn't moving, just balanced on his elbow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiztedRabbit Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 there is a myriad of reasons.. number one is tire technology... the tires they use are NOT available to us. even though you see 60ish degrees... in motoamerica bikes are lucky to reach max lean angles of 54-56 degrees (their tires are available to us) but that's just the tip of the iceberg. one is can only reach those lean angles safely when your BP is on point.. otherwise you are putting to much stress on the carcass and making the tire do the work of the suspension which is BAD... to really get into it... the combo is tires, bp, suspension and EMU/throttle control need the tires to be able to reach that lean and maintain traction.. to do so you need proper suspension.. (oem wont do it in most cases ) as if the suspension cannot properly soak up and rebound the irregularities of the track the tier ends up taking up the slack and doing things its not meant to do.. usually results in a crash. next is your BP, BP is subjective yet there still needs to be the same foundation... that is getting central mass off the top of the bike and lower than the center of gravity. this allows you to keep the bike angle lower (45-50 not 55) as the most traction is available on the side not the edge.(the idea is to always stay off the edge as much as possible to get on the gas and brakes harder I could compound this for hours) lastly is EMU/Throttle control. it is combined as 1 is under out control the other isn't ecu needs to have fueling on point. tuned properly to not always lean or rich spots that cause surging or lack of power spots that could cause you to have to adjust throttle excessively mid corner. throttle control throttle control throttle control... smooth consistent throttle will allow you to maintain smoothness all the way thru the turn. with out this you can basically pogo stick the bike as it will be minutely transitioning weigh from front to back and so on thru the turn.. ... all of this EVERY LAST BIT comes down to traction.. we do everything for traction... every last input in the bike is to maintain traction while getting around as quick as possible with the traction provided... (yes even the MA and GP guys drifting and sliding is still traction...) traction is still intact until your on your face. soo as run around and ADD answer as that was..... GP can do it because they have million dollar bikes on million dollar tires with million dollar suspension and million dollar EMU. MA , WSBK and the likes cant even do it... but they get closer as they have 100k bikes with 100k suspension ect ect.... we can get close to them because all our tech is trickle down... long story.. get that BP in check 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 Thanks man, appreciate the detail. Beyond BP I was betting part of it was tires. I could see my street tires could not lean over any more. Something for you to watch for @tall_tracy when you run out of chicken strip you are done, you can't lean past that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 Chicken strips don't necessarily mean you have more lean but you can work the tire more (brakes, gas, etc.). Probably not explaining it well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 1 hour ago, blue03636 said: Chicken strips don't necessarily mean you have more lean but you can work the tire more (brakes, gas, etc.). Probably not explaining it well. So you are not going to lean past the edge of the tire...it stays formed to the track surface? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrok Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 On 8/25/2017 at 11:10 AM, ludwb675 said: Turn 13 at Nelsons. Slower right hand turn. Feels like I'm getting my head off the bike more than this; but apparently I'm not. So how close am I to running out of lean angle? Using my handy dandy cad skills at work, i'm roughly at 52 degrees. I guess i still got a little bit further before i should start loosing grip. But i'm close enough where i feel i need to really start working on better body positioning. I can probably get my ass off the seat a bit more but need to make sure my head follows. Also need to get my torso closer to the tank with my head down by the handlebars. Try digging into that corner a bit tighter to the inside and then run it outside going onto the front straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tall_tracy Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 6 hours ago, Tonik said: Thanks man, appreciate the detail. Beyond BP I was betting part of it was tires. I could see my street tires could not lean over any more. Something for you to watch for @tall_tracy when you run out of chicken strip you are done, you can't lean past that. True, luckily my legs are sooooo long that my knee will touch before I run out of lean angle..... I'm kidding guys, so relax. I'm hoping to continue working on improving next year, and that's the whole reason for new rear sets and my own suit. It was fun and I learned a bunch from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmutt Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Tonik said: So you are not going to lean past the edge of the tire...it stays formed to the track surface? Chicken strips may exist on a guys bike that's running faster than another rider using all of their tire. It's all dependent on how much the rider is getting off the side of the bike. The tire will eventually run beyond it's edge and then down you go, but it's relative to how much you're getting "inside" of the bike in a corner. From my limited experience, the more of you that's off the seat, the less lean angle you'll need to carry similar speeds through a corner. Am I right? Edited October 14, 2017 by Helmutt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Helmutt said: Chicken strips may exist on a guys bike that's running faster than another rider using all of their tire. It's all dependent on how much the rider is getting off the side of the bike. The tire will eventually run beyond it's edge and then down you go, but it's relative to how much you're getting "inside" of the bike in a corner. From my limited experience, the more of you that's off the seat, the less lean angle you'll need to carry similar speeds through a corner. Am I right? I totally agree with that. What I cant wrap my head around is in the pic of the pro he is far more leaned over than I have ever been and I had zero chicken strip left. Why isnt he past the edge of the tire and wrecking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmutt Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 34 minutes ago, Tonik said: I totally agree with that. What I cant wrap my head around is in the pic of the pro he is far more leaned over than I have ever been and I had zero chicken strip left. Why isnt he past the edge of the tire and wrecking. The MotoGP bikes and tires are a completely different animal than what's available everyday to us lowly consumers. GP bikes are way more capable and their tire compounds/profiles are equally top notch. Not to mention, Marquez damn near drags his shoulder when he's deep in a corner - his taint is probably resting on the right side case cover in that pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motocat12 Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tonik said: I totally agree with that. What I cant wrap my head around is in the pic of the pro he is far more leaned over than I have ever been and I had zero chicken strip left. Why isnt he past the edge of the tire and wrecking. squish Edited October 14, 2017 by motocat12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiztedRabbit Posted October 15, 2017 Report Share Posted October 15, 2017 like I said.. they have far advanced tech than any of us will ever have access too.. comparing what a gp BIKE can do is like saying your accord should do what an indy car can do... on the subject of chicken strips... they are only a piece of the puzzle.. I'm more concerned with where the tire wear pattern is... you can look at a tire and see where some one is braking getting on the gas and of course leaning. I can actually see it mostly in the pic above... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiztedRabbit Posted October 15, 2017 Report Share Posted October 15, 2017 another thing is everyone is diff physically .. look at dudes that drag knee everywhere or elbows... they maybe just lankier than myself or others. there are so many people that are at a moderate pace dragging everything when others don't touch anything and would beat them by seconds... I use my knee as a quick guide.. it taps then lifted at apex as a reference of my start of aggressive cornering.. I allow it to touch then pull it in as I reach my max lean at apex then it skims the ground and off as on the gas... I couldn't get my elbow down unless I wrecked... I have long legs and Trex arms... BP again is very important. and you need to solidify the base now.. if you don't.. you are limiting your own performance and as you progress things will get more uncomfortable... getting the BP right now will allow you to tweek it as you get smoother and quicker.. remember that you don't learn one BP then that's it... it is constantly evolving.. to your pace. this will also effect your line choice and brake points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted October 15, 2017 Report Share Posted October 15, 2017 8 hours ago, Tonik said: So you are not going to lean past the edge of the tire...it stays formed to the track surface? No I'm saying that you can use other controls to reach the edge of the tire not necessarily lean. Yes leaning is a must but strips don't mean your not leaned over enough it just means your not working the tire enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiztedRabbit Posted October 15, 2017 Report Share Posted October 15, 2017 to expound on Craig.. correct.. its usage we run significantly lower tire pressures on track.. I run my rear tire at 19-25 psi hot depending on track conditions.. this allows for a larger contact and traction zone.. so the tire can go past the edgeline but this is far less than ideal.... we use BP and other controls to keep it as far off that as we can while getting around said corner as quickly as traction will allow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludwb675 Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 Mid-O appreciation day is Oct 8. Since i busted my shoulder and couldn't ride this year, i asked if i could roll over my appreciation day to next year when i'll actually be using all my certs. I got denied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhughes Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 cant sign up for monday online . anyone know its sold out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobhawkins Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, jhughes said: cant sign up for monday online . anyone know its sold out? They lock out the online stuff early sometimes. Stupid, I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludwb675 Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 On 9/28/2018 at 4:36 PM, jhughes said: cant sign up for monday online . anyone know its sold out? Pretty sure noon the day before is the cutoff for early registration. So that would be Friday at noon for a Monday track day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limitedslip7 Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 Anyone signed up for the 8th yet? Open enrollment starts today. I'm signed up and have garage #12. Got the garage for free and anyone is welcome to join me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobhawkins Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 I will be back in action October 23. Need track time. Where can I go within a 6hr (or so) one way drive? I know most orgs will be shut down by then, but maybe somebody down south?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4iguy Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, jacobhawkins said: I will be back in action October 23. Need track time. Where can I go within a 6hr (or so) one way drive? I know most orgs will be shut down by then, but maybe somebody down south?? Might be going to NC Bike the 20th/21st. Is the 23rd carved in stone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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