Jester_ Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, what said: II've been debating the ABS on my R1, how intrusive is it on the track? Never had a bike with ABS before and figured I'd give it a go at least next season but I'd be really interested in informed feedback. Would be a good area to re-mount my ECU if the pump went away... I wouldnt get rid of it without trying it out first. I dont mind it as much as most and it has probably saved me once or twice. The lever has 0 feel and you will get some fade, but I love the linked brakes. Dragging that rear brake really settles the bike I think. The only other expert rider I can think of that uses it is Koflowitch, so everyone must be ditching it for a reason 🤷♂️. I am going to try it out and see how things go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, TimTheAzn said: And? That's not the argument here, the argument is that those aids pretty makes the rider useless lol. There is no And. The comment stands on its own and is part of the useless rider discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 52 minutes ago, Jester_ said: I wouldnt get rid of it without trying it out first. I dont mind it as much as most and it has probably saved me once or twice. The lever has 0 feel and you will get some fade, but I love the linked brakes. Dragging that rear brake really settles the bike I think. The only other expert rider I can think of that uses it is Koflowitch, so everyone must be ditching it for a reason 🤷♂️. I am going to try it out and see how things go. No feel sounds not so great but I can probably get used to relying just on feeling the deceleration over decel + brake pressure. Anyway yeah I'll leave it on for at least a few days at the track and see how I like it. Not a super difficult fix if I want it gone anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaDoc Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) it still baffles me why there is such a big discussion about this. If its "looks" "color" about a bike etc i can understand people going back and forth on it. But when it comes to rider aids, its kind of common sense at least for street riders. There is no point in considering pros and cons. If its available and affordable get it. If that small electronic thing saved you from major crash its worth it and negates " 100 pages of cons" you guys can come up with. I literally see what happens to folks who crash day in day out, believe me death would have been a better fate for some folks. Yes, tonic, knitting would be safer but if you enjoy motorcycles why not make it safer. to summarize for better comprehension motorcycling is high risk / high reward hobby / / more risky than skydiving and more fun than skydiving, akin to an endless fall and flying down from sky >>> Yes yes yes Does it make sense that any thing you can get a hold of reduces risk will be beneficial in the larger picture / starting from good helmet/ gear / better tires / brakes / all the way to electronic riding aids >> YES YES YES Street bike riders >> developing skills >> yes good idea Can you still develop skills set even with riding aids on bike>>> yes of course sharpening your skills to max day in day out while facing more risk without rider aid >> will it bring you any socio/economic/ financial/ championship gains >> NO NO NO Track day riding / track day timing/ milli sec benefit etc is an entirely different conversation and discussion. But for street riding this argument holds no sense at all. You get what ever you can to make you safer. After slowly moving up the ladder of safety net from nothing to abs tc etc I have not experienced even one moment where i thought " Boy, this road would have been so much more fun without my abs and TC " after a few years when this topic is being discussed it will sound almost like this discussion " you should put on many miles on almost worn out shinko tires to improve your skill set, that will teach you how to control slides and slips and loss of traction" ( i know this sounds absurd now >> exactly my point when we look back at discussion about abs and TC in 2025" rider aids are coming, getting better and here to stay. And i thank racing upto a level for this because the R&D, tech and money is bought into this due to that aspect a lot. I welcome all and everything that is tricking down from high level motorcycling racing world to regular street riding. Edited October 30, 2019 by NinjaDoc 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 In my mind actively avoiding rider aids because it makes someone feel like less of a rider is like not wearing a helmet because it restricts your freedom. Is everyone able to make that choice for themselves? Sure. It's just maybe not a smart or informed decision. Unless there's a specific reason for not taking an advantage that can make something safer, it's down to ego and ego isn't the best thing to base important decisions on, generally . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, what said: In my mind actively avoiding rider aids because it makes someone feel like less of a rider is like not wearing a helmet because it restricts your freedom. Is everyone able to make that choice for themselves? Sure. It's just maybe not a smart or informed decision. Unless there's a specific reason for not taking an advantage that can make something safer, it's down to ego and ego isn't the best thing to base important decisions on, generally . I could have paid cash for any motorcycle I wanted, and I did. I specifically wanted something light and maneuverable with no electronic aides. That is what seemed like the most 2 wheel fun for me. Is my Ninja 400 (non-ABS) an EGO bike 🙄 I mean I could have bought the H2 to be "safer," I just didn't want one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Tpoppa said: I could have paid cash for any motorcycle I wanted, and I did. I specifically wanted something light and maneuverable with no electronic aides. That is what seemed like the most 2 wheel fun for me. Is my Ninja 400 (non-ABS) an EGO bike 🙄 I mean I could have bought the H2 to be "safer," I just didn't want one. A ninja 400 doesn't really require any electronic rider aids (not really counting ABS here... I think looking at any sort of testing you'll find ABS outperforms non-ABS systems in stopping distance unless some sort of god is piloting the bike. Again, this is your choice/preference but not necessarily based on safety). You're not going to be spinning up the rear on corner exits or struggling to keep the front end down trying to manage drive on a 400 And yes, a ninja 400 is totally an ego bike. You bought that sucker thinking "I'm gonna go blow up those slow 1000 rider's day on this 40 horsepower mean green machine". I have the same aspirations on the grom down at deal's gap 😂 Edited October 30, 2019 by what 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTheAzn Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 59 minutes ago, Tpoppa said: I could have paid cash for any motorcycle I wanted, and I did. I specifically wanted something light and maneuverable with no electronic aides. That is what seemed like the most 2 wheel fun for me. Is my Ninja 400 (non-ABS) an EGO bike 🙄 I mean I could have bought the H2 to be "safer," I just didn't want one. Do you think the aides were holding you back? Just trying to make sense of the reasoning for specifically going no aides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, TimTheAzn said: Do you think the aides were holding you back? Just trying to make sense of the reasoning for specifically going no aides. Fair question. I'm not opposed to electronics (I said the GPS-based race tech is stupid and I stand by that). I've owned 3 bikes with ABS. I like the simplicity of riding...just me and the road. I can ride as smoothly and quickly as I want without aides. I have fun every time I toss that little 400 into a corner, which is why I ride in the first place. If I bought something with cornering ABS and TC, chances are it would probably lure me into a faster pace, which is not a current goal of mine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2talltim Posted October 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) Well knew it wouldn't be too long before we seen a dyno chart and here it is with story attached. @Tonik https://www.cycleworld.com/how-much-power-does-2020-indian-challenger-make/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+New+Content+(Feed)&utm_content=5dbaea3b08bbc500015c0fc6&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook Edited October 31, 2019 by 2talltim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted October 31, 2019 Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 Took the Riders Academy training at BMW facility in South Carolina back in June. They demonstrated stopping distances with and without ABS with their pro rider (R1250GS). Made a true believer out of me. They've come a LONG way with ABS systems. Of course this was on good pavement, and they made it clear that on less than ideal surfaces, like gravel, it can be worse than fully manual! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted November 1, 2019 Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 8 hours ago, 2talltim said: Well knew it wouldn't be too long before we seen a dyno chart and here it is with story attached. @Tonik https://www.cycleworld.com/how-much-power-does-2020-indian-challenger-make/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+New+Content+(Feed)&utm_content=5dbaea3b08bbc500015c0fc6&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook That's one torquey bastard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaDoc Posted November 1, 2019 Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, what said: That's one torquey bastard. Rocket 3 entered the chat. everyone / absolutely everyone else left 163 hp is nothing these day.... nope that’s the torque number ... ohhhh okay Edited November 1, 2019 by NinjaDoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motocat12 Posted November 1, 2019 Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, NinjaDoc said: Rocket 3 entered the chat. 163 hp is nothing these day.... nope that’s the torque number ... ohhhh okay several hp to weight ratio lists published. can't find any torque to weight tables 2010 Triumph Rocket 3 0-60 mph 3.3s My old bike beat that. currently punching 2.7s https://www.zeroto60times.com/body-style/motorcycle/fast-slow-0-60/ Edited November 1, 2019 by motocat12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaDoc Posted November 1, 2019 Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 Chat topic changed to 0-60 times from torque number rocket 3 left the group Ls2 18 entered the chat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2talltim Posted November 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) Nice to see my old big heavy girl can hang with newer, lighter modern tech. Edited November 1, 2019 by 2talltim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2talltim Posted November 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 6 hours ago, NinjaDoc said: Rocket 3 entered the chat. everyone / absolutely everyone else left 163 hp is nothing these day.... nope that’s the torque number ... ohhhh okay Not sure why but that bike has never really impressed me. Kind of car engine stuffed into a bike so to speak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted November 1, 2019 Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 Well, the only remaining questions on this Indian is center of gravity, suspension and lean angle. Tim, we expect a report in the spring when you test drive it. To recap, you now owe us this info and the results of ground clearance change based on tire size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motocat12 Posted November 1, 2019 Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 3 hours ago, 2talltim said: Nice to see my old big heavy girl can hang with newer, lighter modern tech. factoid: the H2r has the most power to weght of any production bike. h2 and h2 sx are not in the top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2talltim Posted November 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, motocat12 said: factoid: the H2r has the most power to weght of any production bike. h2 and h2 sx are not in the top 10. Factoid....H2R is a $55k motorcycle = not even in the same universe as anything else we are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted November 1, 2019 Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, 2talltim said: Factoid....H2R is a $55k motorcycle = not even in the same universe as anything else we are talking about. except a base model harley for the same price 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted November 1, 2019 Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 4 hours ago, what said: except a base model harley for the same price But, you get a BOOM!™ stereo!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaDoc Posted November 2, 2019 Report Share Posted November 2, 2019 11 hours ago, what said: except a base model harley for the same price One thing is with Harley you don’t have to waste much money on gear. Gosh darn... Forgot the merchs Bur starter kit is pretty cheap 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2talltim Posted November 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) My newest pet peeves with the whole Cruiser culture is the stereos, they think they need stupid loud pipe then have to install even stupider louder stereos to hear it over their stupid pipes. Because they think everyone wants to hear their highway to hell album on repeat...all...fucking....day. Edited November 2, 2019 by 2talltim 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer_kaw Posted November 2, 2019 Report Share Posted November 2, 2019 24 minutes ago, 2talltim said: My newest pet peeves with the whole Cruiser culture is the stereos, they think they need stupid loud pipe then have to install even stupider louder stereos to hear it over their stupid pipes. Because they think everyone wants to hear their highway to hell album on repeat...all...fucking....day. Also drives me insane with bikes coming through town or at gas stations and such but....... I gotta admit my Vaquero was rolling with a top of the line competition level pro audio setup. 10 speakers, 3 amplifiers, and a digital sound processor. However never blasted through populated areas. Think I mostly did it because I could, I was bored and it really pissed off the Harley crowd to get drowned out by the “Jap” bike when they were showing off. Back on topic. I looked at all brands before buying the Vaquero including HD. Hands down Indian impressed me the most. Very very nice. Almost bought a chieftan dark horse but really wanted a frame mounted fairing. If this woulda been out then I’d own one. Not sure how HD competes with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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