Boost-n-Juice Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 ...seriously, this is my last straw. Man, where do I start. I'll try to be short and to the point. First off, I've been trying to fix this problem for about 3ys now. :curses: - The car...'86 GT converted to MAF, EEC tuner, 347, Novi 2000 blah blah blah.. I have been running the EEC tuner for over 5 years, with no problems. 3 years ago this is what I changed on the car when the problem started. Went from 302 to 347, upgraded to SN95 Alternator, from 190 to 255lph pump, Electric Fan, Custom nitrous cam (.525 lift 292 duration), Victor Jr intake and I think that's it. The problem? Sporadically the car pulls timing and dumps fuels (loads up). It's like a light switch, the car will just fall on it's face like you turned the key off. If you floor it, it will start back up and chug like an OLD carbed big block on a cold day. Heavy black smoke. Finally I broke down and took it to have a flip chip burned and the same thing occurs on the tuner software!!! this is eliminating my computer totally and it still does it. My computer with the EEC tuner runs fine in a different mustang. IF YOU UNPLUG THE EEC TUNER IT RUNS FINE! The one thing that stands out is the FUEL PUMP does NOT shut off when the car stalls. It keeps re-circulating. You can actually hear it start re-circulating the second it starts to act up. It makes a sucking sound from all the fuel flowing thru the rails. What I've tried... - Different Computer - Different MAF - Replaced most sensors, Temp Sensor, FP Relay, O2's, Control Module - Replaced COMPLETE HARNESS When we had it on the Dyno trying to tune it, we noticed that when the problem occurs the injector duty cycle goes 100% and it pulls NEG timing. You know how when you turn the ignition on and the FP comes on for a few seconds and then shuts off? Or, when your car stalls the FP shuts off? What tells the pump to shut off? Could this be my problem? I did upgarde to a 255. Any ideas? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mudbutt Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 It is a long shot, but there is a ground that is specificly for either the maf or whole computer(cant remember which) we have had issues with cars running really bad either constant or intermittent when there was an issue with this. On one of the cars the battery was relocated. The grounds were all good with no resistance. The car still didnt want to run right. Someone suggested running a dedicated wire to the back for this ground instead of grounding it up front, wouldnt you know, the car ran fine. I know this is a VERY long shot, but it is all I can think of atm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaverickGrabber1972 Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 sounds like it could be the fuel pressure regulator not holding all the time ...or the return is getting pluged up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytang Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Fuel is one issue but the timing backing out is another. A bad ground can cause the timing module to go crazy like a voltage spike. Brian did you run your negative cable back up front because I remember you having problems with your battery when you moved it to the back when we talked at Norwalk a couple years back. Remember the fuel relay has a constant hot and a running hot so the relay will use its ground and run the pump because the other hot dropped voltage to hold it open or closed. Give me a call or email me and I will make time to come over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost-n-Juice Posted October 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 I did run a seperate ground to the battery. Since then I've upgraded to a SN95 alternator and switched to a Mini starter. I nolonger have any charging or starting issues. I thought MAYBE the regulator was bad, but I can adjust the regulator and stop the flow of fuel. I had it pegged so I wouldn't go lean since I have a stock tune. Aaron give me a call. HELP! SOS! Whatever you need man, dinner, the wife, neighbors wife, whatever it's yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Do you have a vacuum gauge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1647545494 Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 yep check for vacum or boost leak, also take a look at the distribustor and make sure it isn't coming apart, when you put the cam in did you degree it or just throw it in on the stock timing marks? does the car use a knock sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattyona12 Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 you say you did replace the tfi module on the distributer? If not try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost-n-Juice Posted October 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 I didn't degree the cam because I was told not to. The TFI module was replaced, the only other electronic device in the distributor is the pick up coil. I know these EEC Tuner aren't the best thing in the world and they are VERY sensitive to pulse waives. Could the pick-up coil be omitting a frequency or pulse interrupting the Tuner? - side note, a guy I ran into on the NET had the same problem with almost the identical set up. This guy was a 20+yr certified Ford tech. Come to find out the .045" gap between contact points in the cap, where the rotor contacts cap was omitting a frequency that was interfering with the tuner. He put dielectric grease on the contact points of cap and the problem went away. I tried that, with no luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 BC could we power your tuner from a diffrent power source or do you happen to have a radio in the car if so does it whine ifnot we could hookup a radio (Rigged to see if it whines) To test clean power you could (I think) use a multimeter and look for flucations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperado Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 OK, think about what would cause the fuel pump to run all the time. Since the fuel pump runs from the ECU, and trhe nly itme that the pump would do what it's doing is whenthe ECU is in either diagnostic mode or limp mode right? Since thething runs right wiout the tuner connected, then I would assume that the rest of the motor, wiring and other factory parts are ok. This leaves the tuner, now I am totally in the dark here, I wouldn't know what a tuner was if you handed it to me unless you told me tha'ts what it was. But I am going to assume that it is some box that plugs into the diag port of the computer and the cig lighter. So we have the unit and the it's connections to the car. First thing I would try is connecting it to the diag port but not to the power and see if it causes problems. Then if the thing has a power switch, I would turn it off and connect it to power and see if the problem shows up. If there is a ground loop between the cig lighter and the ECU it could act up. If that's not bringing about the problem, find one of those jump boxes with a cig lighter style power port on it and power the unit off that so the power is independent of the car. If the problems don't come back doing this I would pull power into the car, straight from the battery and power the unit from that, again independent of the rest of the car's wiring. If the problems come back run an aditional ground for the ECU to the battery. That's really all I have, I don't know dick about tuners, EFI or any of that shit. So this is a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess). Hope it helps at least narrow the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost-n-Juice Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 It gets the power from the J3 port (diagnostic port on the back of the computer) No external power involved. If the tuner is bad, then why does it run fine in a different car? Also it does the same thing with Turner's tuning software/hardware, which doesn't incorporate my computer or Tuner. It hooks directly to the cars wire harness. someone shoot me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost-n-Juice Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I want to know what tells the fuel pump to shut off. If it's the computer, then where in the program does it monitor this? I know for a fact the computer moitors the voltage going to pump, off the fuel pump relay but it will run with out that wire connected to the computer and ast up just the same way while unconnected. Stock EEC IV program... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost-n-Juice Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 A9L CHECKSUM_BASE_ADDRESS 8192 # Set to 0 to clear Error code 15 WOT_VOLTAGE 2.71 # WOT breakpoint (TPS Voltage - 1) OL_TP_VOLTAGE 2.71 # Throttle position to force Open Loop. (TPS Voltage - 1) PART_THROTTLE_SPARK_ADDER 0 # Part Throttle spark adder (Deg BTDC) WOT_SPARK_ADDER 0 # WOT spark adder (Deg BTDC) TIP_IN_RETARD 0 # Maximum tip-in spark retard (Deg BTDC) LOW_DWELL 0.5 # Max low speed dwell (off time in ms) HIGH_DWELL 0.199997 # Max high speed dwell (off time in ms) WOT_ADVANCE_VS_RPM # WOT spark Advance vs RPM ( 16383.8, 26 ) ( 5000, 26 ) ( 3500, 22 ) ( 2600, 22.5 ) ( 2150, 21.5 ) ( 1800, 18.5 ) ( 1000, 8 ) ( 0, 8 ) ( 0, 8 ) WOT_ADVANCE_VS_ECT # WOT spark adder vs. Engine Coolant Temperature(ECT, Deg.) ( 254, -4 ) ( 246, -4 ) ( 236, -2 ) ( 200, 0 ) ( 120, 0 ) ( 86, 3 ) ( -256, 3 ) WOT_ADVANCE_VS_ACT # WOT spark adder vs. Air Charge Temperature(ACT, Deg.) ( 254, -6 ) ( 240, -6 ) ( 150, 0 ) ( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 ) PT_ADVANCE_VS_ACT # ( 254, -2 ) ( 190, -2 ) ( 160, 0 ) ( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 ) WOT_ADVANCE_VS_BP # WOT spark adder vs. Barometric Pressure ("Hg, Degrees). ( 31.875, 0 ) ( 27.75, 0 ) ( 26.5, 4 ) ( 23.5, 4 ) ( 0, 12 ) ADVANCE_RATE_VS_RPM # ( 8160, 1 ) ( 4000, 1 ) ( 3008, 1.5 ) ( 992, 2 ) ( 0, 2 ) ( 0, 2 ) MIN_LOW_SPEED_DWELL # ( 4095.94, 0.00279999 ) ( 15, 0.00279999 ) ( 14, 0.00300026 ) ( 12, 0.00399971 ) ( 10, 0.00449944 ) ( 0, 0.00449944 ) MIN_HIGH_SPEED_DWELL # ( 4095.94, 0.00300026 ) ( 15, 0.00300026 ) ( 13, 0.0033493 ) ( 12, 0.00370026 ) ( 10, 0.00499916 ) ( 0, 0.00499916 ) BASE_SPARK_TABLE # Base Spark Table (Deg BTDC)(Load vs RPM) 28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 34 34 28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 28 28 28 28 33 36 36 37 38 38 28 28 25 26 28 29 32 32 38 40 28 28 20 21 25 28 31 32 33 34 28 28 15 15 16 16 18 20 23 27 27 27 8 10 10 11 13 15 21 21 21 21 8 8 9 10 12 14 18 21 21 21 SEALEVEL_LOM_SPARK_TABLE # Sea level LOM spark table. 28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 34 34 28 28 28 32 34 35 35 34 28 28 28 28 33 37 37 38 38 38 28 28 25 26 30 37 38 36 36 38 28 28 20 21 25 32 34 34 33 32 28 28 15 16 16 16 18 20 26 27 27 27 8 8 9 10 11 14 21 21 21 21 8 8 9 10 11 13 21 21 21 21 ALTITUDE_LOM_SPARK_TABLE # Altitude LOM Spark Table (Deg BTDC)(Load vs RPM) 28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 34 34 28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 34 34 25 26 30.5 33.5 35 36.5 38 38 38 38 20 21 20 24 31 32 33 33 33 33 14 14 14 14 16 21 27 27 27 27 8 9 10 11 13 17 22 22 22 22 6.5 8 9 10 12 14 18 18 18 18 6.5 6.5 9 10 12 14 18 18 18 18 SPARK_TABLE_RPM_SCALING # x axis RPM scaling(RPM, Cell) ( 16383.8, 9 ) ( 4000, 9 ) ( 3000, 8 ) ( 1500, 5 ) ( 500, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) SPARK_TABLE_LOAD_SCALING # Y axis load scaling(Normalized Load, Cell) ( 1.99997, 7 ) ( 0.75, 7 ) ( 0.600006, 6 ) ( 0.100006, 1 ) ( 0.0499878, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) OPEN_LOOP_FUEL_MULTIPLIER 0.996094 # Global open loop fuel multiplier ENGINE_DISPLACEMENT 301.083 # Engine Displacement MAF_VOLTAGE 4.78523 # Max MAF voltage MAF_FUNCTION # Mass Air Transfer Function (Volts, Kg/Hr) ( 15.9998, 835.509 ) ( 4.76807, 835.509 ) ( 4.44312, 695.465 ) ( 4.177, 595.977 ) ( 3.88599, 499.658 ) ( 3.54395, 399.219 ) ( 3.35498, 347.574 ) ( 3.14893, 295.612 ) ( 2.90991, 243.334 ) ( 2.69409, 201.828 ) ( 2.58203, 182.5 ) ( 2.44995, 161.272 ) ( 2.31592, 142.261 ) ( 2.15405, 120.083 ) ( 1.98901, 100.122 ) ( 1.88989, 90.2996 ) ( 1.80298, 82.3786 ) ( 1.69092, 72.8734 ) ( 1.57397, 62.4176 ) ( 1.46802, 54.1798 ) ( 1.32104, 44.6745 ) ( 1.18188, 36.7535 ) ( 1.09106, 32.6346 ) ( 0.884033, 23.7631 ) ( 0.75, 18.6936 ) ( 0.571045, 13.6242 ) ( 0, 13.6242 ) ( 0, 13.6242 ) ( 0, 13.6242 ) ( 0, 13.6242 ) ISC_DURING_CRANK # ISC Duty cycle during crank. Keyed ofF ECT at start. (ECT, Duty Cycle) ( 254, 0.601562 ) ( 180, 0.601562 ) ( 160, 0.992188 ) ( -256, 0.992188 ) ( -256, 0.992188 ) ( -256, 0.992188 ) BASE_FUEL_TABLE # Base Fuel Table (A/F ratio)(Load vs ECT) 16.3556 16.3556 16.1269 15.7837 15.2119 14.9831 14.64 13.9537 13.9537 13.9537 16.1269 16.1269 15.555 15.2119 15.0975 14.9831 14.64 13.9537 13.9537 13.9537 12.9244 13.0387 13.0387 13.1531 13.2675 13.4962 13.4962 13.9537 13.9537 13.1531 12.4669 13.1531 13.1531 13.1531 13.6106 13.9537 13.9537 14.64 14.64 13.4962 11.6662 12.6956 13.0387 13.1531 13.6106 13.6106 13.9537 14.64 14.64 13.725 11.0944 11.0944 12.3525 12.3525 12.6956 13.1531 12.9244 13.0387 12.4669 12.4669 10.2937 10.2937 11.6662 11.6662 12.0094 12.3525 12.5812 12.5812 12.4669 12.3525 9.6075 9.6075 11.4375 11.4375 11.6662 12.0094 12.3525 12.3525 12.3525 12.3525 STARTUP_FUEL_TABLE # Subtract corresponding cell values from BASE_FUEL_TABLE for startup/warmup enrichment 3.08812 3.77437 2.745 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.25812 1.71562 3.08812 2.63062 3.31687 2.40187 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.48687 1.71562 2.63062 2.51625 2.51625 2.17312 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.3725 1.71562 2.51625 2.05875 1.94437 1.94437 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.14375 1.71562 2.05875 1.48687 1.48687 1.3725 1.25812 1.14375 1.25812 1.25812 1.02937 1.25812 1.48687 1.14375 1.3725 1.02937 0.915 0.915 1.14375 1.14375 0.800625 0.915 1.14375 0.915 1.14375 0.800625 0.4575 0.343125 0.800625 0.800625 0.22875 0.4575 0.915 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 FUEL_TABLE_LOAD_SCALING # Y axis load scaling(Normalized Load, Cell) ( 1.99997, 7 ) ( 0.899994, 7 ) ( 0.700012, 5 ) ( 0.399994, 3 ) ( 0.149994, 1 ) ( 0.0750122, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) FUEL_TABLE_ECT_SCALING # ( 254, 9 ) ( 240, 9 ) ( -30, 0 ) ( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 ) WOT_FUEL_MULTIPLIER_VS_RPM # WOT Fuel Multiplier vs RPM ( 16383.8, 0.945312 ) ( 6000, 0.945312 ) ( 4400, 0.953125 ) ( 3800, 0.976562 ) ( 3200, 0.945312 ) ( 2400, 0.96875 ) ( 1600, 0.90625 ) ( 0, 1 ) OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER_VS_RPM # ( 16383.8, 0 ) ( 1100, 0 ) ( 1075, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) SEA_LEVEL_LUGGING_OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER # Sea level fuel multiplier, RPM. ( 16383.8, 1 ) ( 1500, 1 ) ( 1200, 1.20312 ) ( 750, 1.20312 ) ( 650, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ALTITUDE_LUGGING_OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER # Altitude lugging fuel multiplier, RPM. ( 16383.8, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER_VS_ACT # ( 254, 1 ) ( 76, 1 ) ( 0, 0.8125 ) ( -40, 0.640625 ) ( -256, 0.640625 ) ( -256, 0.640625 ) CRANK_FUEL_PULSEWIDTH_MULTIPLIER_VS_TIME # ( 8191.88, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) CRANK_FUEL_PULSEWIDTH_VS_ECT # ( 65534, 0.0019989 ) ( 180, 0.0019989 ) ( 150, 0.00230026 ) ( 70, 0.00569916 ) ( 40, 0.0105019 ) ( 20, 0.0141487 ) ( 0, 0.0218887 ) ( -20, 0.0387611 ) ( -65536, 0.0387611 ) GLOBAL_ACCEL_MULTIPLIER 0.398438 # Global Accel pump multipler ACCEL_ENRICHMENT_VS_TPS # Accelerator Enrichment Multiplier vs TP voltage ( 4.98054, 0 ) ( 4.16022, 0 ) ( 2.20706, 0.296875 ) ( 0.976577, 0.953125 ) ( 0, 1 ) ACCEL_ENRICHMENT_FUEL_TABLE # Accelerator Enrichment Fuel Table(lb/min) 21 23 26 28 31 34 39 56 12 14 16 18 26 30 38 55 5 8 10 12 16.5 21 27 45 4 5 6 8 12.5 17 25.5 34 2 2 3 4.5 8 12.5 18 29 1.5 1.5 2 3 4.5 8 12 20 1.5 1.5 2 3 4.5 8 12 18 INJECTOR_BREAKPOINT_VS_BATTERY_VOLTAGE # Injector Breakpoint table (Voltage, lbs/rev) ( 4095.94, 3.04478e-05 ) ( 0, 3.04478e-05 ) ( 0, 3.04478e-05 ) ( 0, 3.04478e-05 ) ( 0, 3.04478e-05 ) ( 0, 3.04478e-05 ) ( 0, 3.04478e-05 ) ( 0, 3.04478e-05 ) LOW_INJECTOR_SLOPE 26.0995 # Injector slope lbs/hr HIGH_INJECTOR_SLOPE 19.6416 # Injector size lbs/hr INJ_DELAY 0 # Global injector delay (crank deg.) INJECTOR_TIMING_TABLE # Injector timing table 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 380 400 400 400 400 380 380 380 380 380 380 420 420 464 464 420 420 420 420 420 420 420 464 464 464 420 420 420 420 420 420 420 464 464 464 INJECTOR_FIRING_ORDER # Injector firing order 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8 INJECTOR_OFFSET_VS_BATTERY_VOLTAGE # ( 15.9375, 0.90625 ) ( 14, 0.90625 ) ( 13, 1 ) ( 12, 1.15625 ) ( 11, 1.40625 ) ( 10, 1.6875 ) ( 9, 2.03125 ) ( 8, 2.59375 ) ( 7, 3.53125 ) ( 6, 5.53125 ) ( 5.5, 7.5 ) ( 0, 7.5 ) INJECTOR_OUTPUT_PORT # Injector Output Port Table 0 0 0 0 2 2 2 2 FAN_TEMP 220 # Coolant temp for Electric Fan (Deg F) FAN_ENABLE 0 # Electric Fan control enable(0=no, 1=yes) HEDFHP 0 # HS Electro-Drive fan enable ECT1_HS_FAN_ON 234 # HS Fan ECT1 ECT2_HS_FAN_ON 242 # HS Fan ECT2 CLOSED_THROTTLE_SPARK_ADDER 0 # Closed Throttle spark adder (Deg BTDC) CLOSED_THROTTLE_OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER # Closed Throttle Open Loop Fuel Multiplier (RPM, Multiplier). ( 16383.8, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) DRIVE_IDLE 672 # Drive Idle RPM NEUTRAL_IDLE 672 # Neutral Idle RPM MAX_RPM_CLOSED_THROTTLE_IDLE 11950.5 # Maximum RPM for Closed Throttle Mode Idle, rpm. NEUTRAL_IDLE_OL_DELAY 176 # Time in seconds under CL control before going OL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost-n-Juice Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 cont..... DESIRED_IDLE_AIRFLOW_IN_DRIVE # Desired idle airflow in drive (Kg/Hr) ( 4080, 54.2185 ) ( 1952, 54.2185 ) ( 1504, 42.9496 ) ( 1008, 29.9797 ) ( 672, 20.4117 ) ( 0, 0 ) DESIRED_IDLE_AIRFLOW_IN_NEUTRAL # Desired idle airflow in neutral (Kg/Hr) ( 4080, 54.2185 ) ( 1952, 53.1554 ) ( 672, 20.4117 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) DASHPOT_CLIP # Maximum Dashpot airflow by RPM (RPM, Kg/Hr) ( 16383.8, 43.5476 ) ( 2000, 43.5476 ) ( 1500, 27.2156 ) ( 500, 3.26906 ) ( 0, 3.26906 ) DASHPOT_DECREMENT_RATE # Dashpot decrement step at given flow (Kg/Hr(flow), Kg/Hr(step)) ( 435.443, 1.70097 ) ( 20.4117, 1.70097 ) ( 17.6875, 1.22257 ) ( 12.2457, 0.192688 ) ( 9.52811, 0.0531554 ) ( 1.68768, 0.0797331 ) ( 0, 0.093022 ) PIP 961 # Minimum PIP period (PIP = 6250000/maxRPM) HALF_FUEL_REV_LIMIT_ON 8000 # Turn on half-fuel rev limit HALF_FUEL_REV_LIMIT_OFF 7500 # Turn off half-fuel rev limit SECOND_SPEED_LIMITER_ON 127.5 # Turn on 2nd speed limiter (MPH) SECOND_SPEED_LIMITER_OFF 127.5 # Turn off 2nd speed limiter (MPH) FIRST_SPEED_LIMITER_ON 127.5 # Turn on 1st speed limiter (MPH) FIRST_SPEED_LIMITER_OFF 127.5 # Turn off 1st speed limiter (MPH) NO_FUEL_RPM 7000 # Max RPM (no fuel) MIN_LOAD_FOR_CLOSED_LOOP 0.00500488 # Minimum load for CL contorl TIME_AT_HIGH_LOAD_BEFORE_OPEN_LOOP 2 # Time at high load to force OL (sec) MIN_ECT_FOR_FUEL_SHUTOFF 140 # Min ECT for decel fuel shutoff (Deg F) MIN_RPM_FOR_FUEL_SHUTOFF 150 # Min RPM for decel fuel shutoff (Deg F) MIN_ACT_FOR_ADAPTIVE_CONTROL 100 # Min ACT for Adaptive Control (Deg F) MAX_ACT_FOR_ADAPTIVE_CONTROL 200 # Max ACT for Adaptive Control (Deg F) EGR_MULTIPLIER 1 # EGR multiplier EGR_TYPE 0 # EGR type (0=sonic, 1-PFE, 2=none) THERMACTOR_PRESENT 1 # Thermactor present (0-no, 1-yes) EXHAUST_PULSE_DELAY # 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 NUMBER_OF_HEGOS 2 # Number of HEGO's HEGO_AMPLITUDE # 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 HEGO_BIAS # 0 0.00683594 0.00683594 0.00683594 0 0.00195312 0.00195312 0.00195312 0 0 0 0 0 -0.00195312 -0.00195312 -0.00195312 0 -0.00195312 -0.00195312 -0.00195312 -0.00195312 -0.00390625 -0.00390625 -0.00390625 -0.00195312 -0.00585938 -0.00585938 -0.00585938 -0.0078125 -0.0078125 -0.0078125 -0.0078125 EMISSION_TABLE_LOAD_SCALING # ( 1.99997, 7 ) ( 0.75, 7 ) ( 0.600006, 6 ) ( 0.100006, 1 ) ( 0.0499878, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) EMISSION_TABLE_RPM_SCALING # ( 16383.8, 3 ) ( 3000, 3 ) ( 900, 1 ) ( 700, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) END Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost-n-Juice Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Come on Keith, I know YOU can figure this out! Don't hold back on me here man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperado Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 This may all be stuff that you have tried, so if I mention something silly don't pay it any mind if you tried it. If the car will do this with two different ECU's and the ECU's with the tuner will work in another car then it's under the hood for sure, but you knew that. I went back over the modifications, and I am wondering if you can get this problem to repeat at will or if it's still sporatic. If you can get it to repeat at will, first thing I would do is pull the front drive belt, leaving only yhe blower connected, if that's not possible disconnect the alternator wires ,and make sure they will not short and try running the car. The other thing that keeps coming to mind is what would pull timeing and make the car go rich. The only thing I can come up with is output from the knock sensor. If you have gone from a 302 to a 347, then I am thinking you are running a stroker. So maybe somethings hitting the crank and the knock sensor is hearing it and going banannas. Try pulling the dipstick and see if the problem goes away, there is a possibility that the oil dipstick is hitting the crank. I dont know if that would cause this,, but it's somethingto try that is simple enough. Marc's motor was knocking once we got the idle down to reasonable levels and I was at a loss, Tinman found that was causing the knock in Marc's car. I assume that you have been over every wire under the hood, at least twice so I don't really thing it's a short, but I am wondreing if the fuel pump relay is possibly sticking. With the increase in pump size the current draw went up. If the contacts in the relay are welding together, that might cause this as well because it would take control of the fuel delivery away from the ECU. But it wouldn't effect timing. If you get the car to act up, look at the relay with a test light and see if the ECU is telling it to stay on or if it's sticking, other thatn that, try swapping in a differnt relay. While Iam no Ford man, I know that Dodge and I believe Chevy don't reference fuel pressure to the ECU (no sensor for it) The computer simply turns on the pump for a programmed amount of time when the key is turned on then waits to see ignition pulses before turning it back on. Since it's running with the motor not running, of course there are no pulses. So the relay thing comes back into play again here, other than I would think it would continue to run the pump even with the key off. Something else, is this a return style system or a pulse time setup where the pump is turned on and off to maintain fuel pressure? You mentioned that you can hear fuel going through the rails. Which makes me curious as to where it's going to. There are some more, totally uneducated guesses. Hope it helps some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytang Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Brian what was the last upgrade before this started to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost-n-Juice Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 The EEC IV doesn't incorporate a knock sensor. The problem is totally sporadic. I've replaced the fuel Relay with no change. I have checked EVERY wire as best I can, I even put a totally different Wire harness in the car. I'm thinkin it must have something to do with that fuel pump, or something that controls the voltage going to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost-n-Juice Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Brian what was the last upgrade before this started to happen. This was all done at once... Went from 302 to 347, upgraded to SN95 Alternator, from 190 to 255lph pump, Electric Fan, Custom nitrous cam (.525 lift 292 duration), Victor Jr intake, C -clip eliminators, Rear end Girdle, from 1 5/8" headers to 1 3/4" and I think that's it. I might take it up to NTB and have them hook it up to the computer. According to my friend they can watch all the sensors and shut them off one by one, including the O2's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytang Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Your EECTuner I have been told can do that also. I just have not played with the EECTuner to figure out the commands to turn off sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1647545494 Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 this going to sound kind of dumb but what kind of shape is the battery in? the t-bird I'm building didn't run too good with a weak battery in it. I can hook it up to a scanner for you at work if you want it watches all the sensor values in realtime and has limited datalogging abilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost-n-Juice Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 this going to sound kind of dumb but what kind of shape is the battery in? the t-bird I'm building didn't run too good with a weak battery in it. I can hook it up to a scanner for you at work if you want it watches all the sensor values in realtime and has limited datalogging abilities The battery is a new red top, works perfect. I may take you up on the scanner offer. We're going to play with it some more tonight. Wish me luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperado Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 I am wondering, is there anyt way that you can limit the duty cycle on the injectors to 99%. I am wondering if there is some sort of Y2K shit happening. Yuo said that this is JUST on your engine even to the point that you have moved the computer to another car and it didn't act up. If that other car wasn't built like your's is then I am thinking that the injectors ever go to a 100% duty cycle. I figure its' worth a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost-n-Juice Posted October 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Ok ok ok ok...I'm not going to sleep until I know what this means. I snuck outside and did "THE GROUND TEST"....and the results are as follows. Warmed car up on stock computer, no EEC TUNER and Key off. Batt -> TPS .01 Batt -> MAF B Wire .01 Batt -> Pin 16 .08 and anything in this area of the car reads .08. Anything from the firewall forward is .01 I tried a few other things, not that I know what the results mean, but anyhow... I turned the key on (no tuner) and my fuel pump came on, the fuel pump relay clikeD after a few seconds and the pump shut off. So I did "The TEST" again. Batt -> TPS .56 Batt -> MAF .50 Batt -> PIN 16 .64 Next Test...KEY ON WITH TUNER PLUGGED IN...First off, it acted up right away, fuel never shut off. Results as follows... Batt -> TPS -2.30 Batt -> MAF -2.56 Batt -> PIN 16 -1.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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