Don't give up my civil liberties you pussy's

[thorne]

you are not listening to a word I say. I helped run a group usergroup that was to educate sysadmin on proper practices. The corp that founded it was notifed that we could no longer do it and were under scrutinty so we stopped.

 

 

timewarner I dont have a problem. I was trying to HELP people. I was trying educate the people that protect things on how to make it better.

 

 

If you're working in a professional manner documented correctly and under the proper supervision within the business community that you serve, then you should have nothing to worry about.

 

You work at Time Warner (TW) right? I'm sure TW has plenty of experience at keeping the authorities and folks that want to know what's going on in regards to network security in the know as it relates to what they are up to.

 

If you're off doing something on your own related to network security, I would hope that you do the same and follow proper business procedures. I would also hope that you're not exposing yourself or taking unnecessary risks and drawing the attention of the authorities, DHS or others like them to look upon you with suspicion.

 

I work in IT and have plenty of experience working with companies involved in Networking and Security and disaster recovery, etc....exposed to very sensitive data....and none of them operate in a fashion that would draw that type of attention to themselves.

 

You think you're at risk of something? Dude, there have been folks invovled and working at much higher levels in Gov't and security protecting my privacy and who have clearances and what not that go through much more scrutinization that you're fearing will happen.

 

Guess what....they live normal lives and don't have a reason to fear the checks that go on in their lives. Again, if you're innocent, stop living the worst case scenario.

 

If you think the Feds are out to get you or that things in the future will become a major issue for you in what you do, then you better either insure you're on the up and up and then not worry or that you pack it in before you get busted doing something wrong.

[thorne]

I don't think I will be targest specficaly What I think is I wont be able to help educate people with out fear. Since we already had to stop. Dam nit you keep assuming im a fucking crimnal and it upsets me you would think that.

 

 

 

I'm not discounting whatever it is that you're working on man, especially since I don't know what it is, but I highly doubt you're the only one in the US doing it. Given that I find it very odd that out of the blue you feel you're being inhibited in some way by "the man."

 

Something you did or are doing or something isn't adding up as again, I highly doubt anyone has you specifically on their list to crack down on for no fucking reason. Perhaps you would like to enlighten us on why you suspect things will become a major issue for you in the future. What specifically will harm you in what you're doing and why?

[thorne]

I've shown innocent poeple being hurt but youve yet to prove to me that the current survlenace helps.

 

I am not loooking out for myself I'm looking out for everyone.

 

I've said this before and you're statement about not caring about the poor and just protecting your own rights is re-enforcing the selfish nature that I've addressed in previous e-battles. The world doesn't just revolve around you and your rights and liberties. Maybe on Liberal Island, but not here in the US....never has so far as I remember. We are the land of the Free but still One Nation....not One Person.

 

Dude, people have been and likely always will be wrongly harassed, etc....but that comes with the territory of laws and justice and freedom. It's been said before, freedom isn't free and it's not always the soldiers on the front line that pay the ultimate price.

 

Kool-aid or not, it's fear born from a far one-sided opinion that fears authority for some reason. I'm still trying to figure out why. Set aside the exceptions and wrongly accused, etc...and look for the greater good of society and not just at the exceptions and about yourself.

[thorne]

I will let mike take some of this when he wakes up. I know he stands up for rights of the people.

 

If you don't think peope will fight back your stoned. I know some people would rather be dead then live in your world

 

 

GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH.

[TTQ B4U]

I'm not calling you a criminal. I am stating that I don't buy the fact that you did zero, nothing, nada to call attention to yourself or bring the DHS down on your for this networking security thing you were working on with friends.

 

Things like that don't happen for no reason. What did they say? What were you not doing or were doing that they disagreed? What did they suggest you do differently? Tell me you asked them these things? I certainly would have asked what it is they want me to do or stop doing in order to continue forward. They aren't just going to say nothing and shut you down out of the blue for no fucking reason.

 

IVE NOT EGGED A MOTHER FUCKING THINGS. i'VE HELPED PEOPLE IVE EDUCATED I ENVER ONCE BROKE A FUCKING LAW AND YOUR INTERN CALLING ME A CRIMNAL.

 

I egged on nothing. If you would listen to my words I'm expressing how I'm a innocent person being harrased. my harrasement was not direct but the founder of the group Was. I've got certs and qualifcation to teach security. I've did presentation for CPS.

 

You're missing the point...the Feds/DHS/Cops don't care if you what you do in your bedroom with ropes. No one is watching that aspect of our lives man. Do you really honestly believe there's someone "joe blow" watching that aspect of your life or that there will be? That's scary talk man.

 

No one is saying they have a right to know that......in fact I'm telling you they don't want to know that shit. Show me they, that being the Feds/DHS/Cops in any way do....and then maybe I'll back your point.

 

They don't care if the terrorists or drug dealers fuck women with candles...they want them for reasons other than their intimate moments....unless they involve other criminal acts like kids or what not of course.

 

I'm actually not at all afraid of terrorism and I work in NJ/NYC more than half the time I'm at work. What I want to see is the bad guys loose their liberty and rights to hide behind the laws and liberties that I abide by and value. Fuck the bad guys dude.....that's who I'm after and guess what....yes, I can forgo and give two shits if the gov't can tap phone calls more freely if it will get the drug dealers in the end. They certainly won't be listening to me since they have no reason.

 

You've stated that I did someting wrong wher eI have not. You've stated that you have nothing to worry about . Who cares if you broke laws its your person fucking life. like i said if you like to tie each othe rup and have fucking fun in the bedroom and you talk about it somewhere why should some joe blow know that? WHAT RIGHT DO THEY HAVE TO KNOW..

None and your missing that

 

Who has fear, You your affraid of terroism the best part is Terroism is exactly as tsated they have won because you fear the nonexistant. I fear losing my liberty.

[TTQ B4U]

Well, obviously something wasn't adding up if the corp. that funded it was told that you had to stop. Sounds to me like you're mad about being shut down and not having found out about why not just about being shut down. If it meant that much to you I would suspect you would find out exact details as to why it happened and what you could do to restart the project.

 

Where there's a will, there's a way.

 

you are not listening to a word I say. I helped run a group usergroup that was to educate sysadmin on proper practices. The corp that founded it was notifed that we could no longer do it and were under scrutinty so we stopped.

 

timewarner I dont have a problem. I was trying to HELP people. I was trying educate the people that protect things on how to make it better.

[TTQ B4U]

Why have fear? Fear of what? Go back, find out what needs to get done and learn from the past.....get it done already. The game isn't over, just hit the reset button and find out what the rules are.

 

I don't think I will be targest specficaly What I think is I wont be able to help educate people with out fear. Since we already had to stop. Dam nit you keep assuming im a fucking crimnal and it upsets me you would think that.

[TTQ B4U]

I don't need to pull out facts...it's pretty clear that the bad guys hide behind the laws and protection of the public and we need to work on keeping them from doing that. I think it's pretty clear that since our laws don't apply to the terrorists overseas that the "chatter" we're allowed to spy on and pick up over there has helped us in the battle against terrorism. That same logic would apply well over here for many things too.

 

IMO, until we start executing prisoners and build a much larger prison system we really can't do much as the means to bust all the punks and criminals exists today more so than the capacity to house them. That's one reason why the lower life dealers and crooks get cut loose or plead down.

 

I've shown innocent poeple being hurt but youve yet to prove to me that the current survlenace helps.

 

I am not loooking out for myself I'm looking out for everyone.

[TTQ B4U]

who said anything about people not fighting back? Fighting back against what? I'll take this back to the helmet law then....sure, fight back, don't wear it and perhaps you will end up dead. If not, you'll surely be paying the fines. Either way it's your choice and you'll still be free to make that choice even if the law passes.

 

I will let mike take some of this when he wakes up. I know he stands up for rights of the people.

 

If you don't think peope will fight back your stoned. I know some people would rather be dead then live in your world

 

 

GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH.

[thorne]

ok, Here is what happened.

 

We had a group CALL Hp614/wolfpak, This group was founded by Brent huston a major Network Security figure head. He write of magazines. We basicly were giving unrealist expections that were not possible to meet to continue operation. The idea was it was a come and go scenario. They wanted people to submit data, I believe I could be wrong on this one but tehy wanted back ground checks to people who were invovled.

 

It was basicly a unobtainable scenario. So, because it was going to cost money and resources that were not possible to contiue we had to shut down. We did nothing wrong why should we be scrutnized?

 

You talk about bad guys hiding behind things. Like I said every since the war started I've not been attacked by lions.

 

When I say fight back I think it could escalate to levels you don't wish to see.

 

 

I AM NOT SAYING THEY WANT TO KNOW THIS SHIT. I'm saying the shit will be captured with everythig else, and joe blue who reviews it will see it and if you think info wont leak see my earlier post about the stalker who used the current access to stalk his ex.

 

Lets talk about drugs dealers for a sec, Do you think they talk about drugs on the phone? They talk about key words. so if they keywords become something they look for you could have shit for telling your wife to pick up oranges.

[Scotty2Hotty]

I have no desire to help the poor I want to protect my fucking rights. I've been impeeded So I have lost rights do you fucking understand people have been wrongly jailed people have been wronly harrassed

 

 

This is bullshit. I can't believe It blows my fucking mind you would say I'm drinking coolaide I've posted LEGIT FUCKING FACTS showing its happening every single fucking day.

I know you're a smart guy, that's why I'm wondering about all the left wingism. Yes it happens everyday, but it's reality. Life sucks, then you die. But again, we don't live in a perfect society (thank original sin for that one). But I'll say going off to 3rd world countries makes me grateful for our beautiful land known as the United States of America.

[thorne]

I know you're a smart guy, that's why I'm wondering about all the left wingism. Yes it happens everyday, but it's reality. Life sucks, then you die. But again, we don't live in a perfect society (thank original sin for that one). But I'll say going off to 3rd world countries makes me grateful for our beautiful land known as the United States of America.

The only thing I'm left on is liberty honestly.

 

I sit more on the middle / right on everything else.

 

I'm not sure how TRUE consertivism is left? RONPAUL is right. I line up with him pretty well.

[thorne]

your logic confuses me.

 

being slapped in the face is better then being shot in the arm. Does that make eather right?

 

Its a odd way to look at things. Land of the free is coming Land of the survlane home of the crimnal

[BIG_brother1647545517]

Oops, now Big Brother is watching me.

No Im not... Its all good. LOL sorry just trying to break the tension!

[TTQ B4U]

So you're saying you don't see criminals using the law and their rights and freedoms as a way of skirting being caught/prosecuted? You don't see them hiding behind the law as a means of protection. Forget the lion attack situation I'm not sure why that matters or comes in here. People fighting back to levels ....what are you talking about? I don't follow you.

 

You talk about bad guys hiding behind things. Like I said every since the war started I've not been attacked by lions. When I say fight back I think it could escalate to levels you don't wish to see.

 

Look, the guy who stalked his ex, etc.....again, exceptions happen and always will. Drugs/keywords on the phone....Big Brother isn't going to look at someone for talking about oranges, or give a shit about the extraneous stuff. you're reading into the hysteria. They are doing after the known bad guys already......you must be really paranoid to think cops are going to come knocking on my door over cell phone about oranges and that no one is going to fact-check the keywords captured against who the person is.

 

AM NOT SAYING THEY WANT TO KNOW THIS SHIT. I'm saying the shit will be captured with everythig else, and joe blue who reviews it will see it and if you think info wont leak see my earlier post about the stalker who used the current access to stalk his ex.

 

Lets talk about drugs dealers for a sec, Do you think they talk about drugs on the phone? They talk about key words. so if they keywords become something they look for you could have shit for telling your wife to pick up oranges.

[thorne]

So you're saying you don't see criminals using the law and their rights and freedoms as a way of skirting being caught/prosecuted? You don't see them hiding behind the law as a means of protection. Forget the lion attack situation I'm not sure why that matters or comes in here. People fighting back to levels ....what are you talking about? I don't follow you.

 

 

 

Look, the guy who stalked his ex, etc.....again, exceptions happen and always will. Drugs/keywords on the phone....Big Brother isn't going to look at someone for talking about oranges, or give a shit about the extraneous stuff. you're reading into the hysteria. They are doing after the known bad guys already......you must be really paranoid to think cops are going to come knocking on my door over cell phone about oranges and that no one is going to fact-check the keywords captured against who the person is.

 

 

These exception are gross violation on my privacy. and the oragnes thing is a fact if you read up on some major drug transaction they talked about oranges before said actions went down because itw a a safe word to use you dont caqll someone up and say hey I got some c0ke for sale

[TTQ B4U]

Well I'm about to deliver a sack of oranges and a banana to my bedroom so I gotta run....but good chatting. Later.

 

These exception are gross violation on my privacy. and the oragnes thing is a fact if you read up on some major drug transaction they talked about oranges before said actions went down because itw a a safe word to use you dont caqll someone up and say hey I got some c0ke for sale

[copperhead]

Well now, turns out someone out there gives a shit about the constitution

 

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RTEI0G0&show_article=1

 

2 Patriot Act Provisions Ruled Unlawful

Sep 26 07:17 PM US/Eastern

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Two provisions of the USA Patriot Act are unconstitutional because they allow search warrants to be issued without a showing of probable cause, a federal judge ruled Wednesday.

 

U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken ruled that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, as amended by the Patriot Act, "now permits the executive branch of government to conduct surveillance and searches of American citizens without satisfying the probable cause requirements of the Fourth Amendment."

 

Portland attorney Brandon Mayfield sought the ruling in a lawsuit against the federal government after he was mistakenly linked by the FBI to the Madrid train bombings that killed 191 people in 2004.

 

The Patriot Act greatly expanded the authority of law enforcers to investigate suspected acts of terrorism, both domestically and abroad.

[thorne]

TIm, I would like to know do you feel ther eis nothing about you or supspicious that you would not be afraid of being dumped out of your closet?

 

So you have 0 that could be possible misconstrewed?

[TTQ B4U]

Thorne, everybody I'm sure has things in their closet that can be sought out or seen as suspicious or misconstrued. Facts have to be brought into context of a situation and I am basing my broad statements on that. We all likely have something.

 

I'll use a couple things that happened to me as examples to show you what I mean.

 

I got stopped for 95mph in a 55 on 670 if you remember back about 18 months ago. The cop asked me where I was coming from. I don't have to discuss my personal life, but why not tell him that I was coming back from the airport and a business trip? I don't care, had nothing to hide. He asked me if I had been drinking.....no, but I let him test my eyes anyway.....I knew I hadn't but again, I understand the 1-2 and perhaps numerous reasons he's asking me these questions and had no reason to fear he was going to go postal on me.

 

I didn't have my drivers license on me, it was in my bag in the trunk. He would let me get out for safety reasons but I offered to pop it and have him bring it to me...no go....we handled that later.....but hey if things got drawn out in court for some odd reason, I"m sure my being on Columbus Racing, having been to the track and a thread somewhere on the internet could implicate me more than not.

 

Conclusion it was a simple ticket and a court date that was handled later. The guy behind me was searched and his car gone through by both cops. Why? Don't know, but perhaps he had something as you say drew attention. Maybe he didn't answer any questions and in the cops eyes, they cracked down and found something to justify a search. I'm sure they could have done that on my car but didn't...why? Who knows.

 

The other is just what 6-8 weeks back when we thought someone came in during the middle of the night....remember?....if not that's okay....end of story is that they came in, I had a firearm on the couch at that point and made them aware of it. They ran the s/n, took my personal info, etc...that of my wife, etc.....I suppose my attorney wife could have fought both, argued, etc....but why? I know the gun is legal, I have no warrants, there are no drugs in my house or anything in plain sight that they are going to go after, etc.....again, my point is there's not attention drawn to me for anything to worry about them looking at.

 

Now again, if something came up and I was in court, I'm sure somewhere it may come out if I've shot a skunk in my backyard or carried a gun in my glove box on the way to the range, etc.....so could something be suspect or con strewed, sure.

 

Overall though in the above situations, there was no no reason to argue with the cops or create something out of nothing. I had not reason to push or argue my rights, etc....about.....at least IMO....perhaps you would have handled them differently.

 

Now take the family in the UK where the little girl has gone missing for months and now all of a sudden they are suspects....you know the case? WHy are they suspects? What was found? etc.....well, it's common practice and everyone's knowledge that in cases of missing persons or murders, etc...that the husband, parents, etc...are going to get combed through to be ruled out as potential suspects/criminals.

 

If my wife goes missing, I pretty much expect to be pinned as the suspect and have to fight to prove my innocences. However, when things like that happen and folks feel as if they are being made an example of or treated unfairly, it's usually because something from their past has made them a suspect. You know the drill.....

 

Anyway, thanks for having the discussion. I hope I didn't piss you off or cause ill will. It's just a discussion man and I had to take the other side to keep it going. As I said, anything here without a counter point is pretty boring.

 

Later.

 

 

TIm, I would like to know do you feel ther eis nothing about you or supspicious that you would not be afraid of being dumped out of your closet?

 

So you have 0 that could be possible misconstrewed?

[thorne]

But there is much more tim, If you say its ok I will post everything i found thats suspect including some things that would disqual you from being abel to get secuirty clearance and possible "Long shot " but suspection things

 

Again I'm being nice and not posting it, But everything i mean everything I have was public info. Now lets think how much more I could get private.

 

I just wanted to mkae sure you understood I used non of my personal resources.

- My parents are cops

- My friends work for DOE/DOD

 

I will say right now I have things I know that you might not want public hence why i am asking if you care.

 

But my point is the info I found is not a simple speeding ticket. AGAIN I ONLY ONLY ONYL Used publicly accesable things to gather all my info.

[HAOLE]

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k25/straightchiro/bostongun1.jpg

[TTQ B4U]

I would trust you wouldn't post anything here so for the record I'm saying not to post anything.

 

However, I am clear to enter the Pentagon, and other gov't offices, as I do all the time but regardless, if folks aren't than they can't, then they can't blame anyone but themselves for that. The feds aren't out to get them and plant stuff to prevent their access. We make our own beds.

 

Now, if the information is publicly accessible then why are you worried about "the man" again? I still am not seeing how you think the Gov't is out to control or hurt you without reason?

 

What you've shown me is that it's much more likely that my personal but not necessarily private information is more likely to be used in a negative way by someone here on this board than the Feds who won't be posting it or making things public to the world at large?

 

Show me that the feds are out to control or hurt you or put you under their thumb without cause.

 

But there is much more tim, If you say its ok I will post everything i found thats suspect including some things that would disqual you from being abel to get secuirty clearance and possible "Long shot " but suspection things

 

Again I'm being nice and not posting it, But everything i mean everything I have was public info. Now lets think how much more I could get private.

 

I just wanted to mkae sure you understood I used non of my personal resources.

- My parents are cops

- My friends work for DOE/DOD

 

I will say right now I have things I know that you might not want public hence why i am asking if you care.

 

But my point is the info I found is not a simple speeding ticket. AGAIN I ONLY ONLY ONYL Used publicly accesable things to gather all my info.

[thorne]

see, the piece you keep missing is im not worried about a complete gustopo society I'm worried about wrongly being persucited.

 

As I said you may be cleared to enter the pentagon but you will not get TS, If you have it now I could contact them to have it removed based on 1 thing I found pubcliyl what do you think private poeple could find?

[thorne]

my point is wrongful perscustion is my main point. And basedon things I found one could wrongly perscute you. BUT atleast I am pretty sure your not doing anything wrong.

 

But public data let me infer this what do you think some private data could add to that? I don't understand what makes you feel that the more info they have about everyone the better.

 

It justmakes no snese since the trackrecord shows they've failed before and more times they've hurt innocent people.