Lets talk bailouts

[wnaplay1647545503]

Sounds like everyone nowadays is asking the government to help bail them out of financial downfall. If the government uses taxpayer dollars to bail out a company, should in turn prices drop as well. I mean why should a high up executive continue to be paid hundreds of thousands possibly millions a year from taxpayers? Or in like Gm's case there are something like 300 million jobs created by gm and 150 billion in annual revenue worth us bailing them out. I hate to see taxpayer dollars help bailout a company that repeatedly refuses to think ahead. They were warned decades ago to seek alternative fuel sources and did not. I will never buy a new car simply based on new car prices, but I certainly feel something needs to be done to companies that need a bailout. Perhaps a auditor needs to be sent in and a second look needs to be done to get rid of petty spending. How long ago was it that the government bailed out a company and a week later they held a big event for upper management at a resort.

[TheHaze]

Better yet, our government is a flip-flopper:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/12/news/economy/paulson/index.htm?postversion=2008111211

[AJ]

looks like he tried to help

 

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-chief-rick-wagoner-back-to-full-salary.html

In 2007 Wagoner cut his own salery by 50% in 2007, and 25% in 2006. Your so-called "pay raise" was just the board taking away his self-imposed pay cuts and reinstating his original salery.

 

http://www.columbusracing.com/forums/showpost.php?p=797255&postcount=23

[LJ]

Sounds like everyone nowadays is asking the government to help bail them out of financial downfall. If the government uses taxpayer dollars to bail out a company, should in turn prices drop as well. I mean why should a high up executive continue to be paid hundreds of thousands possibly millions a year from taxpayers? Or in like Gm's case there are something like 300 million jobs created by gm and 150 billion in annual revenue worth us bailing them out. I hate to see taxpayer dollars help bailout a company that repeatedly refuses to think ahead. They were warned decades ago to seek alternative fuel sources and did not. I will never buy a new car simply based on new car prices, but I certainly feel something needs to be done to companies that need a bailout. Perhaps a auditor needs to be sent in and a second look needs to be done to get rid of petty spending. How long ago was it that the government bailed out a company and a week later they held a big event for upper management at a resort.

 

 

3 million total jobs for the whole industry. But when you think the American workforce is about 138,000,000 that equates to 2% of the workforce. The unemployment rate in this country could go from 6.5% to 8.5% in a matter of hours. Whole towns would go under in a matter of hours. Etc. etc. Let's not forget the possibly millions of people who would lose their whole retirement. If you count them, unemployment would realistically be around 10-12%

 

If our gov't was going to go socialist on our asses like they have, it would have been much more beneficial to the average American for them to bailout the auto industry. Not saying I am for this, as they would not be in this situation if they didn't produce an inferior product at a higher price at an inefficient company. But the past is the past, and there is nothing we can do about it, all we can do is move forward

[Nitrousbird]

they would not be in this situation if they didn't produce an inferior product at a higher price at an inefficient company.

Inefficient company - yes...and a LOT of that is due to the unions.

 

Inferior product - no.

[Mallard]

3 million total jobs for the whole industry. But when you think the American workforce is about 138,000,000 that equates to 2% of the workforce. The unemployment rate in this country could go from 6.5% to 8.5% in a matter of hours. Whole towns would go under in a matter of hours. Etc. etc. Let's not forget the possibly millions of people who would lose their whole retirement. If you count them, unemployment would realistically be around 10-12%

 

If our gov't was going to go socialist on our asses like they have, it would have been much more beneficial to the average American for them to bailout the auto industry. Not saying I am for this, as they would not be in this situation if they didn't produce an inferior product at a higher price at an inefficient company. But the past is the past, and there is nothing we can do about it, all we can do is move forward

All companies are in trouble with vehicle sales. It has nothing to do with their product being inferior or costing more.

 

In May of this year Honda sold over 50,000 Civic's. Last month they sold under 20,000. The problem is industry wide.

[SpaceGhost]

I know when my car is paid off here shortly, I'm not buying a new car either, from anyone. I'm saving my money for when the zombies come.

[Putty]

Phuck the bailout....phuck it all!!!

[Smokey]

I know when my car is paid off here shortly, I'm not buying a new car either, from anyone. I'm saving my money for when the zombies come.

 

while I agree with your idea on paying off the car and just driving it, unfortunately your money won't be worth jack when the zombies come....I'd invest in a nice back stock of bullets.

[copperhead]

It's not free money, none of this stuff has been.

 

The .gov is talking about offering low interest loans to GM. The bank "bailout" was the .gov buying bad loans from the banks so that they could improve their credit ratings, so that the banks could get loans again. Assuming GM doesn't default, the .gov will make some money off that deal. If the "toxic" loans that the .gov bought from the banks end up getting paid off instead of defaulted on, then again the .gov will make money, but this is unlikely.

 

Either way, all of this money is getting something to show for it, none of it is free.

[TURBOED]

All companies are in trouble with vehicle sales. It has nothing to do with their product being inferior or costing more.

 

In May of this year Honda sold over 50,000 Civic's. Last month they sold under 20,000. The problem is industry wide.

When comparing car sales, you need to compare with the same month of the previous year. I would venture to guess that October is always a down month when compared to May. I'm not saying that all sales are not slumping... you are right. I think Honda was down something like 25% compared to October of 07.

 

Speaking of bailouts, I'm currently drafting a letter to congress proposing a bailout of student loans. Fuck companies that made bad decisions. Think about all the 22-25 year old first time home and car buyers that can't buy because of student debt.

[Akula]

Can a small business get this bail out? What is the criteria?

 

I agree that GM employs many people, actually, GM only employs the union right?

 

The Union's demands for things like GM increasing their expenses on employee health care, and $60,000/year for a person to bolt on one tire, would be considered irresponsible business practices in any other industry.

 

Make GM move to a better cost alignment, make the management get paid what they are worth, make them focus on quality cars at a decent price, and GM wouldnt be in this mess. Poor quality in GM's vehicles and poor business practices are none of MY government's concern.

[TTQ B4U]

All companies are in trouble with vehicle sales. It has nothing to do with their product being inferior or costing more.

 

In May of this year Honda sold over 50,000 Civic's. Last month they sold under 20,000. The problem is industry wide.

 

 

The product may not be inferior, although that's debatable depending on how inferior is defined. Will they last a while? sure...but are they as proven and solid as the imports for as long as the imports have been....I don't believe so.

GM does have some nice newer models, but they aren't selling well because they have a bad reputation and IMO, they have too many low-volume sales wonders.

 

The solstice and sky are great cars. I'd love to have a nice turbo convertable sky...but I heard they tabling plans for it to be long term due to sales. I'll have to pull the article up at some point. G8....great car, came close to buying one...but big V8 sedans in todays markets are turds. Brought it out too late. The list goes on.....

 

Imports are down but part of that is economy and financing related. Folks are gun-shy about any purchase, but Honda and Toyota are still at the top of the sales list for many when it comes time to spend. However, getting financed today and with the market the way it is, many are either being forced to table the purchase or just plain holding off.

 

IMO, I don't think we should let the big three die....in fact, we need them now more than ever. We should use them as a starting point to bring back manufacturing and jobs to the US vs outsourcing it. Fuck Clinton and all the rest that supported the cause that accelerated that move.

 

We are a nation of consumers and not producers. Anyone see the movie Wall-E with their kids? That's our future if we don't change as a Nation and as a world. I do believe that.

[Mallard]

When comparing car sales, you need to compare with the same month of the previous year. I would venture to guess that October is always a down month when compared to May. I'm not saying that all sales are not slumping... you are right. I think Honda was down something like 25% compared to October of 07.

 

Speaking of bailouts, I'm currently drafting a letter to congress proposing a bailout of student loans. Fuck companies that made bad decisions. Think about all the 22-25 year old first time home and car buyers that can't buy because of student debt.

In October Honda was -25% year-over-year, Toyota was -23%, and GM was -45%. I September Honda was -24%, Toyota -32%, and GM was -15%.

 

It's an industry wide problem. GM's problems are being compounded/accelerated by GMAC refusing to finance people under a 700 FICO score. They're blaming a good portion of the lost Oct sales on GMAC.

[LJ]

In October Honda was -25% year-over-year, Toyota was -23%, and GM was -45%. I September Honda was -24%, Toyota -32%, and GM was -15%.

 

It's an industry wide problem. GM's problems are being compounded/accelerated by GMAC refusing to finance people under a 700 FICO score. They're blaming a good portion of the lost Oct sales on GMAC.

 

 

The big 3's problems are not just year to date. They have been in trouble for years.

 

GM has posted 1 positive EBIT in the past 4 years

Ford 2 of the last 4

 

 

Go ahead and sit there and tell me that this is a new problem. It's not.

 

 

Inferior product - no.

 

Currently, you would be correct, or if we are talking about high end vs import economy. But up until recently, economy car vs economy car (seriously, what do most people drive?) the big 3 made an inferior product.

[Putty]

Phuck the banks!

 

Phuck GM...same interior in ALL cars.

[ghost face]

The gov should NOT bail out the big 3. Why are the taxpayers paying for some one else's mistakes? Instead of making more fuel efficient cars, the big 3 were making bigger gas guzzlers. At the same time they were collecting millions in research/ development for more fuel efficient cars. They had this same trouble back in the 70's and yes the government made some money back from Chrysler, but times are way different.

 

But on the other side look at all those dumbass still driving their hummers thinking their the sh*t, while spending $50 to go the local grocery or what not.

[Mallard]

The gov should NOT bail out the big 3. Why are the taxpayers paying for some one else's mistakes? Instead of making more fuel efficient cars, the big 3 were making bigger gas guzzlers. At the same time they were collecting millions in research/ development for more fuel efficient cars. They had this same trouble back in the 70's and yes the government made some money back from Chrysler, but times are way different.

 

But on the other side look at all those dumbass still driving their hummers thinking their the sh*t, while spending $50 to go the local grocery or what not.

Where were they recieving millions of dollars for fuel efficient vehicles?

 

They got money for fuel cell research, but that money was specifically for fuel cells and could not be used elsewhere. On top of that, the systems developed on the fuel cell programs are being used on the Volt, so there is a pay off.

 

Is it GM's fault that they built trucks and SUV's when people were uying them in droves? It's a supply and demand driven market. They have/had fuel efficient developments, but they also weren't anticipating gas prices to hit $4 for a year or two...that's why a lot of these smaller cars you see scheduled to come out around 2010. They were in the next product cycle.

 

Also, GM makes trucks and SUV's that are more fuel efficient than those of Toyota, Nissan, etc. So it's not like they're behind the times when you could go to your Chevy dealer today and buy a Traverse that seats 7, has a ~280HP direct injected V6, and get 24 mpg. Are their small cars lacking? Maybe, but the interior of the Cobalt is no less offensive than the Corolla I was in the other week, and the SS kicks ass.

 

Honestly, I think some people are way too critical of GM. I think Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz are doing a great job with the company and the future product, but a lot of the problems they face are legacy's from the leaders before them. GM is a big ship that needs time to right itself, but they have been taking the right steps to do that. This industry isn't something that can turn on a dime. If there is a "bailout" I hope it does not include language to remove those two from their leadership positions. They're doing a good job and understand the problems and what needs to be done.