Are you middle class?

[Zx2guy19]

I make 4x more then I did out of college just 5 years later and have less money/more debt.

 

The more you make, the more you spend (usually). I've got a 10 year pay-off plan for all of my debt that I really do follow very strictly, but I had to take on a lot of debt to where I've gotten today (multiple mortgages, student loans, credit cards, etc.). The Audi was unnecessary, and I know that, but it was a choice I made.

[bucd]

I make 4x more then I did out of college just 5 years later and have less money/more debt.

 

The more you make, the more you spend (usually). I've got a 10 year pay-off plan for all of my debt that I really do follow very strictly, but I had to take on a lot of debt to where I've gotten today (multiple mortgages, student loans, credit cards, etc.). The Audi was unnecessary, and I know that, but it was a choice I made.

 

You still young. So splurging happens when ur still young (referring to the audi), but still doing it responsibly though. I remember doing the same thing when i was at 24. Got my first house and bought my is300 that was only 1 year old with 15k miles. That was my 2nd car. But yes, more you make usually means more you spend. If you can budget your money right and live within that, you can pay off your debt in no time.

 

You learn as you get older (hopefully). 😁

 

-D

[Radio Flyer1647545514]

Basing wealth or success off of income is something only 99% folks do. Success/wealth should be based off of how much capital you are able to accumulate.

 

This.

 

I don't even make 40k a year but I'm better off financially than a lot of people I know making almost twice as much as I do.

 

I've paid less than 100 dollars in interest in the 6 years since I've turned 18, all of which was loans and not credit card interest. My biggest payment is rent, which I could make even smaller by purchasing a home rather than renting one. I'd just rather wait to have a smaller mortgage when that time comes.

 

One weekly paycheck covers 80% of my financial responsibilities every month, the rest goes to fun and savings.

 

Far to many people live outside of their income to keep up with a social standard.

[Ben]

Jumping into this in the middle....but are you saying the above has to be true to in order for someone to be well off? IMO it's far easier for people to do well and become wealthy than it was years ago. The playing field will never be "level" for all, but the reality is there are far more options and abiliites for even the poor to take than there were years ago. The one common thing I see in those around me that are well off, and I'm fortunate to be around many, is that they have a fire in their belly to make it happen.

 

Does it HAVE to be true in the sense of pure metaphysical necessity? No.

 

But according to Richard Nisbett, a professor at the University of Michigan (I know, Michigan, boo!) a professional parent speaks about 2,000 words per day to a young child. A child born to a parent on welfare will hear about 600 words per day. By age 3, the child of a professional person will have heard about 30 million words. The welfare child will have heard less than a third that many. By the time the child of professionals is 3, they will have been given about 500,000 encouraging statements and about 80,000 reprimands. By the time the welfare child is 3, they will have been encouraged about 75,000 times and received about 200,000 reprimands.

 

The results of this are obvious. Children born in to poverty tend to have stunted language skills, stunted intellectual growth, and stunted emotional growth. Imagine having feelings but not having the concepts to describe them.

 

Does this mean no poor child can succeed? No. But it is a helluva disadvantage. Then factor in other difficulties like violence, lack of good role-models, and lack of opportunities that plague high poverty areas and you have an almost certain recipe for failure. I had a teenage client one time who literally didn't know a single person in his neighborhood who had a job. You really think a "fire in the belly" and some "good ole gumption" is going to cure growing up in a situation like that?

 

Honestly I do see plenty that have done well and still do well, but I will agree that it takes more work today. However, is that really a bad thing?

 

Yes. Progress is supposed to make life easier and better for everyone. That's why it's called progress. If the struggle to survive is getting harder as time goes by something is not right.

 

If you're implying there should be salary caps, I totally disagree. . . . You and I might not see it but in the end, if they are public their investors and own people will right-size that if it's out of line.

 

I don't advocate a cap, more like regulating a different set of incentives. But you're on wrong side of history about right-sizing. The trend has been toward less accountability, not more. Executives are compensated based on short-term goals which incentivizes irresponsible behavior. Boards don't exercise rigorous oversight because they are usually friends with the top execs or because (like Jeb Bush on Lehman Brothers) they sit on so many boards they don't know what's going on. And most shareholders don't vote anymore because they are either institutional holders who just sell stock if they don't like what a company is doing or individuals who don't have the time to learn the intricacies of every business in which they own a few shares and couldn't make an impact even if they did.

 

 

meh....I still see a lot of the above as a choice the average American makes. Don't cry me a river when many live well above their means by choice. Even many here are CR that live paycheck to paycheck choose to spend money on technology and cars, etc. that perhaps they shouldn't. The choice remains theirs.

 

Sure. Living beyond your means is bad. But income disparity and background, not overspending, are the primary drivers of wealth inequality. This "irresponsible poor people/personal responsibility" narrative just doesn't explain or appreciate the depth of the challenges in our economy and it distracts from the real issues. It's a bit like focusing in a rape trial on whether or not the victim was dressed provocatively.

[Tractor]

I agree with your stuff about family life as a big driver in a person's motivation to succeed.

 

We all know how a person can over come it and do well but that's easier said than done when you have mental/emotional under development due to upbringing/environment. I see it in lots of people I know.

[dq driver]

I have these discussions regularly with friends, co-workers, and car enthusiasts.

 

For those interested in accumulation of wealth versus the accumulation of income try reading or listening to The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas J. Stanley. It was published in 1998, but pretty much all of the points are still valid.

 

I've uploaded here:

http://www.columbusdsm.com/dqracing/million/

[gillbot]

I agree with your stuff about family life as a big driver in a person's motivation to succeed.

 

We all know how a person can over come it and do well but that's easier said than done when you have mental/emotional under development due to upbringing/environment. I see it in lots of people I know.

 

That's an excuse, not a reason. Plenty of people have a bad upbringings and still made something of themselves.

[Tractor]

If you think it's an excuse then you don't know how much of a struggle it is.

 

You are right that some rise above it. Some of it is environment and some is personal. Just like five people experiencing the same home life growing up as siblings, some will develop into normal people while some will have issues such as borderline personality disorder. It's an interesting puzzle and its very common.

[greg1647545532]

There's also a difference between an individual and a population. If unemployment is high and your cousin Billy is out of work, you might preach to him about hard work and bootstraps and how there are jobs out there if he's just hungry enough. But if you're the governor of Ohio it's silly to look at your unemployment statistics and just dismiss it by saying "there are jobs out there if people work hard enough to get them, they need to take personal responsibility for their situation."

 

The governor is going to be interested in comparing his state's unemployment with neighboring states; if it's higher than, say, Indiana, does that mean that Indianans are just better at taking personal responsibility? Do Ohians just need to be more accountable for their own actions? This isn't an ideological debate, otherwise nobody would be blaming the president, whoever it is, for unemployment rates, ever. Fundamentally everyone accepts that there are things governments can do to affect the unemployment rate, either for better or worse. We differ on what those things are, of course, but if you think that bad government can make it hard for people to get jobs, then why would you put 100% of the blame on the unemployed? Certainly some of the blame would be on that bad government, and if that's true, then certainly good government (i.e., good policy) can make things better for people.

 

Tying this in with the income gap, it's reasonable to tell Billy that he needs to live within his means so he can save more money, but that's not a particularly useful solution for a governor looking at keeping an educated workforce in his state. How ridiculous would it be if a major employer was debating pulling out of Ohio because of an increasingly unhappy and uneducated workforce, and Kasich just threw his hands up in the air and said, "The workforce needs to take personal responsibility for their own income and education, it's not my problem." Only the staunchest of libertarians would vote for that guy.

[Green Bastard]

Why would people want to get a job when the .gov will pay them to sit at home and do nothing? I am at the lower end of the middle class scale (single income family) and I do well enough to not have any real debt and still have a couple toys. But shit, some people living on welfare, food stamps, and section 8 have it better than most people on my side of that scale.

 

Also it really amazes me when I have a day off on a nice day (in the middle of the week) and go through Columbus, to see how many people out who are not at work. Also I find it amusing how all the local businesses (food places especially) are so busy at the beginning of the month, but dead at the end of the month.

[gillbot]

If you think it's an excuse then you don't know how much of a struggle it is.

 

You are right that some rise above it. Some of it is environment and some is personal. Just like five people experiencing the same home life growing up as siblings, some will develop into normal people while some will have issues such as borderline personality disorder. It's an interesting puzzle and its very common.

 

and if you knew anything about me or where I came from, you'd retract that statement.

[Tractor]

and if you knew anything about me or where I came from, you'd retract that statement.

 

Sorry, I admire your ability to rise above your situation. I think we're both right;-)

[gillbot]

Sorry, I admire your ability to rise above your situation. I think we're both right;-)

 

We'll agree to disagree, only because many who were in the same situation I was chose not to put in as much effort or sacrifice to get out of it. Statistically speaking though, yes we are both correct.

 

Many of the people I grew up with are still there and will continue the generational decline with their children perpetuating the problem. However, those who that were truly determined to rise out of that shithole, did so. Not because of divine intervention, but they put their asses in gear, broke their backs and got the hell out. :fuckyeah:

[Littleguy]

This.

 

I don't even make 40k a year but I'm better off financially than a lot of people I know making almost twice as much as I do.

 

I've paid less than 100 dollars in interest in the 6 years since I've turned 18, all of which was loans and not credit card interest. My biggest payment is rent, which I could make even smaller by purchasing a home rather than renting one. I'd just rather wait to have a smaller mortgage when that time comes.

 

One weekly paycheck covers 80% of my financial responsibilities every month, the rest goes to fun and savings.

 

Far to many people live outside of their income to keep up with a social standard.

 

I love stories like yours. I completely wish I was as wise at your age as you are, lol.