Political Thread Of Fail And AIDS (Geeto ahead!)

[zeitgeist57]

Since you are one of the few consistent Republicans I actually respect, I have to ask Clay: how far are you willing to go with "Never Again".

 

Trump didn't do this on his own. He was enabled by particularly toxic culture inside the Republican party. We have to face that the George HW Bushes, Eisenhowers, Goldwaters, Mcnamaras, and Buckleys aren't coming into the party anymore and the few old time holdouts like McCain and Romney are not going to be around forever.

 

Are you willing to extend this "never again" to Ryan, McConnell, and the like. Rob Portman falls into this category - he has backed trump positions 90% of the time and had publicly more than once endorsed the Trump position. I honestly don't think he's doing a bad job, but I still feel like he kind of has to pay for his complicity in the Trump fiasco. Brown is up for election first next year and honestly I kind of feel like his position is in jepoardy and could use some support.

 

I don't think the party is going to change unless there is a purge of the sickness inside it. As much as I disliked Boehner's policies he was a staunch defense against the McConnell and Ryan obstructionist types and his resignation in 2011 can be said to be the beginning of the new ugly republicanism that has lead to a Trump presidency. Getting rid of Trump won't stop whats going on, some of the rest have to go too.

 

Just no more Trump, and that's all I give you. Honestly, I skimmed that gobbledy-gook you just typed about McCarthyism-or-something and responded to pointed questions.

 

Dems and Third Parties have to provide a compelling candidate and story...and I will be very open to hearing it if Trump's presidency soldiers on to 2019 and the next election cycle. Most likely, Trump will run for re-election in 2020 and that's where I'm drawing a line with "Never again".

 

I'll leave it up to you wacky "CR pundits" to fight over every issue from now until then because I have neither the time, energy, or interest in doing similarly.

[greg1647545532]

Since when does the President have complete control of social issues? Why aren't individuals held accountable for their actions? Is it because it's easier to point fingers at Trump and say "he did it!"

 

I think people want Trump to take responsibility for his actions.

 

Actions like encouraging violence at his campaign rallies.

 

Actions like giving white nationalists or white nationalist sympathizers jobs in his administration.

 

Actions like retweeting alt-right memes and talking points.

 

Actions like enacting policies in line with the stated goals of racist/nationalist organizations.

 

 

 

Trump has built a base around encouraging white nationalism, and in the shadow of the consequences of nationalistic violence, this is/was a great opportunity for Trump to make amends for his actions.

 

Instead, he doubles down on white nationalism.

 

But hey, you say this is all fake news drummed up to slander the president. Who am I going to believe, you, or my own lying eyes?

[greg1647545532]

Aaaaaaaand Trump just fired his entire economic council -- at least the ones who hadn't quit yet -- actually, rumor is they already had all quit and he "fired" them to save face. This guy couldn't lead a teenager to a strip club, what do you clowns see in him?

[Geeto67]

IMO it's not a matter of clarity from your view, it's a matter of others using some creative thought to skew what you're saying

 

Nobody has to try very hard to skew anything in this case. If anything you say can be interpreted as "White Supremacists suck, BUT...." you have lost. It's the but that kills you. If you feel like there is something more to say after White supremacists "suck" that in any way defends the actions of White Supremacists (including being critical of a group that is fighting against it) then you have turned yourself into a but.

 

I've read his posts on this point and I don't see it. Not in his posts.

 

completely. unsurprised. but a you and him have a lot of parallel thinking and seem to share the same tone deafness on the issues.

 

I've also watch closely and Trumps response on the VA situation and I'm watching how people twist his words. He never "supported" or called the KKK/Neo groups people good or anything to that effect.

 

This is more about whether he is meeting the national expectation. In all cases of this in the past the expectation is a strong condemnation. Anything less than that is insufficient. Trump aimed for failure with a centrist position and he hit that target square by falling well below the national expectation. No word twisting necessary. If you aren't clearly denouncing the White supremacists, in this case (and he wasn't) you aren't hitting the mark. To make it worse, he then did meet the mark 48 hours later, and then reverted to a centrist position after that. It's not a word twist.

 

If the Klan feels bold enough to interpret your actions as tacit support then guess what? you weren't clear enough. again, this is all on face value. we don't really have to go any further. I don't want to know what right wing pundit nonsense you are reading that "twists" his word and makes it sound like he started the riot riding a golden steed - If your "statement" on a massive tragedy has a hole big enough in it that the clan can drive a truck of positive support through it - you failed bro.

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/former-kkk-leader-david-duke-thanks-donald-trump-leftist-terrorists-charlottesville-violence-latest-a7895451.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/really-proud-of-him-richard-spencer-and-alt-right-leaders-praise-trumps-comments/537039/

 

 

Yes, there were indeed a small group of protesters with a permit on-site protesting the removal of a statue. and there were peaceful protesters on the other side as well. THOSE are the people he referenced as "good people" on both sides of this situation. HOWEVER, the media and many people twisted that to say he's supporting the KKK and calling those turds good people when in fact that's not true and very clearly a lie. They do it partly because I'm sure some believe that but IMO mainly to stir the pot and create the shit storm that happens afterwards.

 

yup don't care. Weak response = Klan thinks they support him. They aren't wrong even if he didn't intend it. After that I don't care who he means by bad dudes and good dudes. Dude can be rock hard with a despot asian dictator with a stupid haircut, but is flaccid when it comes to fucking Nazis? weak sauce. Honestly he's been more critical of morning show hosts than white supremacists in this issue. His dick must be a mirror image of his belly button right now.

 

That's fine and that's what you see through your optics. Same as I just noted above about those trying to come down on Trump. It's incorrect and that's my opinion and when people like Brandon double-down and state it about as clearly as can be you and others still refuse to acknowledge or accept his statements and instead state he must change his approach.

 

He states something. I tell him what his statements mean to others that don't share his viewpoint. At that point it doesn't get clearer, he can 1) adjust for a clearer message or 2) accept what people think of him. Doesn't get much clearer than that.

 

[quote}

No he doesn't, you need to change your optics and take what he says as fact and truth vs running it through some twisted filter.

 

Says you. Dude is literally a pile of ignorance and opinion. I tell him what his shit sounds like to me. He can change, not change, not share his opinion. his choice. I'm not really asking for his opinion. I don't really think of him as an informed individual on matters of race. Conversely I don't really put my opinion out there that I don't expect to be challenged on. If he's crying about being challenged on a shitty opinion, tell him to toughen up buttercup.

 

He's not wrong in lumping the BLM and KKK names into groups either.

 

 

um yes. he is. he is absolutely wrong with treating a tiny group that poses almost no threat on the same level as an organization that killed more Americans than Islamic based terrorism. That's been the whole point.

 

 

Are their peaceful BLM members that just want to stand up for equality yes, but just the same their have their fair share of fuck-sticks just like the KKK and both of those groups of people are just as bad for our country as the other.

 

Ok here is another thing. ALL members of the KKK are fucksticks. But not all members of BLM are. Go read your statement again - you are basically saying there are Klan members who aren't fucksticks (I highlighted this for you). You are saying...an organization where your membership means you support genocide, eugenics, and ethnic cleansing are not fucksticks. This is the definition of false equivalency.

 

who gives a fuck what those assholes call it. if the crackhead Neo's show up and support what you're stating does that make you a Nazi or a KKK Sympathizer?

No, but you bet your ass I would make a strong statement against it and take action to distance my self. This would not include statements with caveats or buts.

 

We have no control if they want to twist what is being said and then in turn say they support it. That's on them.

 

Your Party has some control over it's perception. It does this with a STRONG statement. "On both sides" is not a strong statement. It's a concession. White Supremacists are fucking the white house's girlfriend for all the international neighbors to see. They own your party right now. throwing up your hands and saying "what can I do" is the cuck move.

 

 

That said when I see twisted logic like this and say to myself WTF? then reality sets in and it's very clear what's going on....people aren't that stupid, you're not stupid and you know what Brandon's stating, you just don't accept or acknowledge it for a multitude of reasons. NO different than your comments about me thinking all Muslims are the enemy. Please, it's easy to see through.

 

I don't know that Brandon knows what he means to say. I know what he said, and I can kind of guess what he thinks he means, but usually when I give him the chance to clarify he doubles down on the stupid thing. If I tell him that "hey it makes you look like you are making excuses for the clan when you say 'White supremacy is evil, but...'" and his response is "yeah but White Supremacy is evil, but..." some more then I don't really have to give him much of a chance.

[Geeto67]

Aaaaaaaand Trump just fired his entire economic council -- at least the ones who hadn't quit yet -- actually, rumor is they already had all quit and he "fired" them to save face. This guy couldn't lead a teenager to a strip club, what do you clowns see in him?

 

not rumor. Just got several press releases from members of the council stating they quit.

[greg1647545532]

not rumor. Just got several press releases from members of the council stating they quit.

 

Then why did he say he was firing them?! Trump is the sort of man who waits for all the facts to come in before issuing a statement. I know that because he said so, and if you can't trust Donald J. Trump with the facts, who can you trust?!

[Geeto67]

Then why did he say he was firing them?!

 

I know this is a facetious question but....

 

All of the major CEOs quit in the last 48 hours. He literally lost almost all the largest and most powerful companies, and with their exit more went with them and the desire to sit on one of those councils dropped to 0. The most coveted private sector business sports in his administration just became poison. So he "fired" them to "save face" and disbanded the council to further "save face" because it would be difficult to find business leaders who would want to take on the liability of a potentially racist president and sit on those councils.

 

The balance of power on these councils is in favor of the executive office - Business leaders fight over these spots because it is usually an opportunity to guide business related policy, but in the end the EO has control over final policy making. In turn they collaborate with him to help him realize other agenda items. The level of toxicity has to be unimaginably high for the leaders of industry to not think you are worth their time when it comes to something extremely valuable to them. And yet here's Trump. He just lost almost all his support and confidence from the business and mfg sector. He ain't gonna get shit done now (and republicans own the majority!!!).

 

The White Supremacists own the Republican party. To continue my cuckholding analogy - this is the White Supremacists pulling anal on video with the white house's girlfriend. First time anal. Cucks.

 

 

But somehow Hillary is worse? yeah, right.

[TTQ B4U]

If anything you say can be interpreted as "White Supremacists suck, BUT...." you have lost

 

I don't see him saying that. However, perhaps if people re-wordsmith their sentences to be separate that will help ease your pain on the points being made.

 

completely. unsurprised. but a you and him have a lot of parallel thinking and seem to share the same tone deafness on the issues.

has nothing to do with my viewpoint. reading comprehension of his posts isn't difficult. it's you that reads into what people say things they don't mean and you ignore it when they clarify.

 

This is more about whether he is meeting the national expectation. In all cases of this in the past the expectation is a strong condemnation. Anything less than that is insufficient.

I think Trump has given strong condemnation on more than a few occasions. Again, you seem to choose not to acknowledge when people clarify things.

 

Trump aimed for failure with a centrist position and he hit that target square by falling well below the national expectation.

I didn't see him as being centrist at all. He said but sides have fucktards that are worthless. Pretty clear and pretty accurate.

 

No word twisting necessary. If you aren't clearly denouncing the White supremacists, in this case (and he wasn't) you aren't hitting the mark.

sigh...

 

To make it worse, he then did meet the mark 48 hours later, and then reverted to a centrist position after that. It's not a word twist.

what he calls fucktards on both sides you call centrist and yet you see nothing wrong with that. oh well...

 

If the Klan feels bold enough to interpret your actions as tacit support then guess what? you weren't clear enough.

No one said those guys were smart. If they can't see his words and statements as denouncing them then seriously, they are fucking stupid. However, they aren't that stupid, they are trying to attach themselves to him because he has a base they want exposure to. Guess what, the news has given them more coverage in the last few days then they have gotten in years. That's not Trumps fault.

 

yup don't care.

we know that and both Brandon and I have been telling you we see that. at least you clarified it in your own words. man-point for you for doing so.

 

He states something. I tell him what his statements mean to others that don't share his viewpoint. At that point it doesn't get clearer, he can 1) adjust for a clearer message or 2) accept what people think of him. Doesn't get much clearer than that.

welcome to life. lots of Trump haters or haters of Trump supporters don't share the viewpoint presented. turn on CNN then flip to Fox any day of the week on any subject and you'll see the same thing. that doesn't reflect on Brandon's point at all. What you're intending to do is get him to change his statement if he wants your buy-in when many of us pretty say no thanks. we're not here to garner your approval on our views. choose to think Trump is wrong for blaming the extremists on the left that came out. IMO you're then doing what you're accusing him of and supporting their shitty actions just the same.

 

If the KKK comes marching down my street I'm certainly not going to grab a club and turn all savage animal on them to make my point or stand my ground and claim I'm simply exercising free speach by shutting down theirs. What those that were on the other side did was just as pathetic and weak-sauce and did nothing but give the KKK freaks what they wanted, a HUGE platform and plenty of exposure and they in fact legitimize their cause as they see it.

 

The next time some fuck-tard gives you the bird because you changed lanes in front of him and calls you an asshole out the window, just ignore them. 99.9% of the time the situation resolves itself as what they really want you to do is react. If they get violent, call the cops and sue their ass. Kerry, you know all this damn well and that what you don't do is give them the response they want and platform to perform.

 

[quote}

No he doesn't, you need to change your optics and take what he says as fact and truth vs running it through some twisted filter.

 

Says you. Dude is literally a pile of ignorance and opinion. I tell him what his shit sounds like to me. He can change, not change, not share his opinion. his choice. I'm not really asking for his opinion. I don't really think of him as an informed individual on matters of race. Conversely I don't really put my opinion out there that I don't expect to be challenged on. If he's crying about being challenged on a shitty opinion, tell him to toughen up buttercup.

I think people pretty much say the same to and about you. I also don't think he needs to toughen up. For some reason you interpret his responses as a weakness when in fact those that reply to you are quite the opposite and aren't going to let your long winded replies shut them down. Ironically that's exactly his point and what we're seeing in society today. The left DOESN'T approve of free speech, only THEIR speech.

 

I don't see anyone here in this thread worried about being challenged so you can keep the buttercup comments to yourself as they aren't really applicable. I'll tell him the same about the fat kid comments towards you. You're just big boned (and yes, I mean that in a friendly way) as I'm at confident enough that internet banter on CR is not your platform for judging people.

 

um yes. he is. he is absolutely wrong with treating a tiny group that poses almost no threat on the same level as an organization that killed more Americans than Islamic based terrorism. That's been the whole point.

If you think the left-winger extremists aren't a threat then you're sadly mistaken. They are proving even more dangerous to our society than just counting lives lost.

 

Ok here is another thing. ALL members of the KKK are fucksticks. But not all members of BLM are. Go read your statement again - you are basically saying there are Klan members who aren't fucksticks (I highlighted this for you). You are saying...an organization where your membership means you support genocide, eugenics, and ethnic cleansing are not fucksticks. This is the definition of false equivalency.

You're interpretting the highlighted portion of my comment as if I think there are non-fuckstick KKK Members? Reading comprehension fails you or this is again, your attempt to twist words. I won't bother to clarify as it's clear you won't change your view even if I yell it across the phone into your ear. I will double down and remove group names so you lose two words to twist.....groups on both sides have their share of fuck-sticks. By groups don't go plugging in group names then if it helps calm your feelings because what happened this weekend involved four groups - peaceful protesters on both sides and fuck-sticks on both sides. If you didn't catch that, that's pretty much what Trump said too. He's not wrong.

 

No, but you bet your ass I would make a strong statement against it and take action to distance my self. This would not include statements with caveats or buts.

I think both Trump and Brandon and even myself have done that. You just choose not to see that because you're so focused on Trump. Again, talking with you, one would think Trump drove that car wearing a white hood. Thankfully, many can see that you're a spin-master on stage though.

 

Your Party has some control over it's perception. It does this with a STRONG statement. "On both sides" is not a strong statement.

A strong statement towards both is not a concession. Niether group from this weekend get's a pass and if he were to focus on only one then THAT indeed IS a pass to the other side. Sorry but calling both sides fuck-sticks is where the answer is.

 

I don't know that Brandon knows what he means to say. I know what he said, and I can kind of guess what he thinks he means, but usually when I give him the chance to clarify he doubles down on the stupid thing.

shame on him for expecting you to understand the simplistic. he lacks a communications dept like Trump I guess which causes the liberal elitists with higher educations to freak out due to comprehension issues. Here's a pro-tip - Brandon nor Trump support the KKK or their agenda. Choose to believe what you wish though.

 

If I tell him that "hey it makes you look like you are making excuses for the clan when you say 'White supremacy is evil, but...'" and his response is "yeah but White Supremacy is evil, but..." some more then I don't really have to give him much of a chance.

He doesn't speak Kerry, only English. Perhaps if you shared a cup of coffee with him you'd get it. I've shared one with both of you and see both sides. Will it make you feel better if I call you both Fuck-sticks in this thread? Or will you interpret that as giving him a pass?

 

and Fuck you for making me write a novel here....go buy a Porsche already so you have a car to talk about. Then pay me to make it look good.

[Geeto67]

Tim, the drugs you do must be fantastic.

 

I've spoke to Brandon in real life. He's a nice kid. Love his challenger.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Geeto67

[TTQ B4U]

Tim, the drugs you do must be fantastic.

 

I have excellent vision, perfect hearing and I can read. The bullshit political games that continue are what's sad.

[Mallard]

Wow, had a busy day at work and wasn't able to check this today and keep up. I don't know where to start, but most everything has been said so I'll only say this:

 

People are judged over the friends that they keep. Your friends are a reflection of you. At this point I wouldn't stand within 10 feet of anyone in this administration for fear of being associated with them. I read a diverse set of news media and I purposely watch Trump's statements live (or replayed) without commentary so that I can be the judge of whether the reporting on his statements is accurate or skewed, and I honestly have no idea how anyone could stand with this guy anymore.

 

Bannon will be fired and they will play it up as ousting the Alt-right from the white house, but he's not the only one. The entire administration is toxic.

 

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[BStowers023]

As the owner of a Grey Challenger, I do not condone the actions that happened in Charlottesville, VA

 

Speaking for myself: KKK, White Supremacists, neo-nazi's and anyone of the such are all fucking horrible and they get what they deserve.

 

 

Here are a few quotes from me. I guess I will say it again. Anyone who is a part of the KKK, Neo-Nazi's or is a white supremacist is a fucking tool bag and I do not agree with any of their beliefs or practices and I would never surround myself with anyone of the like.

 

Is that clear enough for you, Kerry?

[Geeto67]

Here are a few quotes from me. I guess I will say it again. Anyone who is a part of the KKK, Neo-Nazi's or is a white supremacist is a fucking tool bag and I do not agree with any of their beliefs or practices and I would never surround myself with anyone of the like.

 

Is that clear enough for you, Kerry?

 

yes, and you want to know why? because it didn't carry that after statement falsely equating lefts groups to them.

 

Maybe when things cool down a little you can get back to your fear mongering about how antifa is the devil and some such nonsense, but understand the context of the times at this particular moment that any statement that goes further than this to shift any blame to the fringe left is generally being interpreted as undermining that statement and rendering it useless.

[BStowers023]

yes, and you want to know why? because it didn't carry that after statement falsely equating lefts groups to them.

 

Maybe when things cool down a little you can get back to your fear mongering about how antifa is the devil and some such nonsense, but understand the context of the times at this particular moment that any statement that goes further than this to shift any blame to the fringe left is generally being interpreted as undermining that statement and rendering it useless.

 

Who is a part of the "fringe left"? You're not referring to BLM or ANTIFA are you?

[Geeto67]

Who is a part of the "fringe left"? You're not referring to BLM or ANTIFA are you?

 

I am referring to what you call "Anti-white".

 

You and I have a fundamental disagreement about BLM and Antifa because you are very poorly informed about them and seem to think they are terrorist organizations (an opinion not held by the consensus of people in this country) when they are not. I can't do anything about your ignorance in this matter, that's all up to you.

 

However, I can't say there are no Anti-white groups at all. They do exist. They do NOT include BLM and Antifa, to believe they do is to have bought the white supremacist/kkk/alt right propaganda. Certain militant Islamic extremists and black separatists, again not BLM - BLM IS NOT A SEPARATIST GROUP, do have agendas that come out against interracial mixing and advocate the same kind of eugenics and genocide as the white supremacists. You know what, since I know you aren't going to do any research on this and are going to try to maintain your bubble for as much as possible (as you have continued doing this entire time) here is a list of seperatists compiled by the southern poverty law center:

 

-All Eyes on Egipt Bookstore

-Black Riders Liberation Party

-Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ, The

-Israelite School of Universal Practical Knowledge

-Israel United In Christ

-Nation of Islam (the Detroit based political group, not all of Islam)

-New Black Panther Party

-New Black Panther Party for Self Defense

-Sicarii 1715

-War On The Horizon

 

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/black-separatist

 

ok, notice what is not on this list? BLM. Also Antifa is not on there either. When you talk about Anti-white, this list above is who you are talking about. When you refer to BLM or antifa as "anti-white" I am going to continue to call you ignorant because objectively that is an ignorant statement in the text book definition of ignorance as having a lack of knowledge and information. When you repeat conservative pundits who classify BLM or Antifa as "Anti-White" you are objectively repeating fascist/WS propaganda. You know why you don't hear about the above separatist groups being at Charlottesville? because for the most part they were not there. Also, many of them ally with WS supremacists groups - they don't generally fight against them because the way they see it, it's possible to have both their goals in separate geographic locations with isolationist societies. The opposite of White Supremacy is not Black Supremacy - It's just fucking normal common sense.

 

If you do want to be critical of Antifa, they are Militant group. Militant = not opposed to violence. They are a loose association of groups who have decided that the government is not going to do anything about White supremacy so they are going to fight it in the streets. They are not Always violent, and are fairly restrained in their use, but they come with the expectation that WS groups are looking to provoke a fight and they are going to give it to them. They are not wrong in their assumption that Fascist groups are promoting violence - there is no such thing as a peaceful white supremacist organization. If you don't think so, go read all the promotional material leading up to unite the right that advocated bringing weapons and rhetoric that their cause will be advanced by violence. Here is a good article detailing AntiFa: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/16/who-are-the-antifa/?utm_term=.22ee52e23b35

 

Are we clear?

Edited August 17, 2017 by Geeto67

[BStowers023]

They might not come out and say it, but maybe you're the only one blind enough to see that many BLM members view their movement as a white vs. black movement. By making a statement like "Everyone who is white, has privilege, AKA white privilege" is inherently racist.

 

I'm trying to put this is the simplest terms for you because I don't think I need to write a novel to get my point across. BLM is a racist organization whether you want to believe it or not. If you don't think so, you're either extremely naive or just plain ignorant.

 

The irony of ANTIFA is they go against a lot of what they claim to believe in. Free Speech? Only if it's what they believe, if not they will do everything in their power for your voice to not be heard and a lot of times that includes violence. Some of the issues they protest I'm actually on their side in regards to agreeing with them, like what happened this past weekend, but I completely disagree with how they go about getting their point across. They are a violent organization that is on the fringe of domestic terrorism.

 

I think you need to understand Kerry that just because I am against these groups does not mean that I am pro-alt right groups. It's okay to be against both and 90% of Americans are. People like yourself who are telling everyone they have to pick a side are the ones fucking it up for the rest of us. That's how we become divided by forcing people to pick a side.

[Geeto67]

They might not come out and say it, but maybe you're the only one blind enough to see that many BLM members view their movement as a white vs. black movement. By making a statement like "Everyone who is white, has privilege, AKA white privilege" is inherently racist.

 

If you are going to accept this as fact, then you have to also accept as fact that political conservatism in this country is White Supremacy because ALL white supremacists also call themselves and view themselves as conservative. You don't get to double deal on this kind of logic.

 

Also, "White Privileged" is objectively a thing that exists. To think that it is an opinion is to again be the definition of ignorant. It is documented, and continues to be documented. If you claim it is not something that exists...again only you control your level of ignorance on this and right now on a scale of 1-10 where 10 = very informed, your statements indicate you are a 1. Maybe not everything people claim is White Privileged is actually white privilege (there is a lot of intersectionality with poverty) but to pretend that it doesn't exist is just pure ignorance.

 

Having a conversation about racisim is not racist. White privilege is relevant to that conversation and it is not racist to acknowledge its existence or discuss it's scope. To claim that it doesn't exist when it objectively does? that is racist, and also ignorant, and to be honest - kinda stupid.

 

 

I'm trying to put this is the simplest terms for you because I don't think I need to write a novel to get my point across. BLM is a racist organization whether you want to believe it or not. If you don't think so, you're either extremely naive or just plain ignorant.

 

I think we have well established your textbook ignorance in this conversation. I don't have to respect your lack of knowledge and your willful ignorance in the face of evidence to the contrary. I don't have to give you a medal for being poorly informed and opinionated, you don't get a pat on the head, there is no participation trophy for you. You bought someone else's lies, you have no drive to seek the information for yourself, and you are digging in.

 

An organization open to the discussion of race does not make it a defacto racist organization. The required element in every definition of being a racist is that the person/organization has to feel they are racially SUPERIOR to all others. Recognizing racial bias in society and identifying does not make someone a racist without an assertion that the bias is because they are superior racially. Congrats on demonstrating that you are ignorant (again as in lacking facts or knowledge) on the defintion of racism as well.

 

 

The irony of ANTIFA is they go against a lot of what they claim to believe in. Free Speech? Only if it's what they believe, if not they will do everything in their power for your voice to not be heard and a lot of times that includes violence. Some of the issues they protest I'm actually on their side in regards to agreeing with them, like what happened this past weekend, but I completely disagree with how they go about getting their point across. They are a violent organization that is on the fringe of domestic terrorism.

 

Please point me to the basis for this. The only people discussing free speech in the context of Antifa are extremeist conservative pundits. I have yet to see any AntiFA statements on free speech at all....and you want to know why? Because it isn't a factor. I am going to make this crystal clear: Free Speech Protection ONLY APPLIES TO THE GOVERNMENT.

Free Speech Protection ONLY APPLIES TO THE GOVERNMENT.

Free Speech Protection ONLY APPLIES TO THE GOVERNMENT.

Free Speech Protection ONLY APPLIES TO THE GOVERNMENT.

Free Speech Protection ONLY APPLIES TO THE GOVERNMENT.

Free Speech Protection ONLY APPLIES TO THE GOVERNMENT.

 

get it yet? no? ok one more:

 

Free Speech Protection ONLY APPLIES TO THE GOVERNMENT.

 

AntiFa is not the government. They have no requirement to not interfere with free speech. They are not promoting Free speech. They, like the white supremacists, are relying on the fact that Free Speech protection only applies to the government to combat white supremacy. They know the government is not going to stop the white supremacists or them, and they know that they have a right to disagree with the white supremacists. They are not "advocates" or champions of free speech. It is not hypocritical to express an opinion as a private citizen/organization.

 

If you think Antifa is "about free speech" or promoting free speech you are just wrong. And again ignorant in the text book definition.

 

Your right to free speech is not protected BY the government, It is protected FROM the government. You have every right to say stupid things, I have ever right to point out your things are stupid and to tell you to shut the fuck up. The government generally doesn't have a right to interfere with either opinion. You are not protected by the government from me telling you to shut the fuck up. Free speech doesn't not protect you from the opinions of other people. White Supremacists are not protected from the opinions of AntiFa. the government doesn't have a right to put either in jail for just speech (violence is not considered speech by the way, you can be put in jail for that).

 

 

I agree that they are what is probably best called "reactionary violent", and that violence is not an acceptable tactic. I am also concerned that increased violence will cede more power to the executive office, not less as they can declare a state of emergency which can supersede certain checks and balances. If you think Trump is bad now, imagine what happens when some some of the safety controls are suspended.

 

I think you need to understand Kerry that just because I am against these groups does not mean that I am pro-alt right groups. It's okay to be against both and 90% of Americans are. People like yourself who are telling everyone they have to pick a side are the ones fucking it up for the rest of us. That's how we become divided by forcing people to pick a side.

 

Then stop spreading their propaganda and accepting their tactics. Stop repeating positions that have roots in White Supremacist propaganda. If you really belive that you oppose them stop working for them. Do some actual research. Half the shit you say is contradictory to the general accepted definition of the words you use. It's maddening.

 

There are times to be a centrist, and there are times where being a centrist is going to be a problem. The reaction and fall out to the VA tragedy is not the time to be a centrist. It is a time to be informed and you are just not there.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Geeto67

[RedRocket1647545505]

The hypocrisy is so thick on this page I can't even get to the bottom of it. Had to scroll all the way back up to the top to hit 'reply'.

[Geeto67]

The hypocrisy is so thick on this page I can't even get to the bottom of it. Had to scroll all the way back up to the top to hit 'reply'.

 

ok, explain. here is your chance.

[BStowers023]

https://www.facebook.com/UnbiasedAmerica/videos/679543612231637/

[Geeto67]

https://www.facebook.com/UnbiasedAmerica/videos/679543612231637/

 

Just because something "calls" itself "Unbaised" doesn't mean it is. In fact it is very much a conservative group with a very conservative agenda. Their Admin is also affiliated with Tucker Carlson's "The Daily Caller" which if you were to rate new organizations by trustworthiness wouldn't be fit to line a birdcage if you printed it out.

 

You are basically sharing a conservative propagandist Facebook group. You aren't getting both sides of the story out of that shit heap.

[RedRocket1647545505]

You are basically sharing a conservative propagandist Facebook group. You aren't getting both sides of the story out of that shit heap.

 

I don't think he is saying only the Left is to blame. He's saying they aren't innocent. Clearly. Regardless of whatever the White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, whatever-the-fuck they call themselves do, this type of response isn't warranted either.

 

"When they go low, we go high"............ :dumb:

[BStowers023]

Just because something "calls" itself "Unbaised" doesn't mean it is. In fact it is very much a conservative group with a very conservative agenda. Their Admin is also affiliated with Tucker Carlson's "The Daily Caller" which if you were to rate new organizations by trustworthiness wouldn't be fit to line a birdcage if you printed it out.

 

You are basically sharing a conservative propagandist Facebook group. You aren't getting both sides of the story out of that shit heap.

 

 

Watch the video without sound and disregard any of the text around the video and just watch the actions. Does this sort of thing happen from the right side? Yeah, sure. Does it happen from the left side? Yeah, sure. This is just one video showing how violent the left can be. Quit covering your eyes and see that it happens on both ends.

[Geeto67]

Watch the video without sound and disregard any of the text around the video and just watch the actions. Does this sort of thing happen from the right side? Yeah, sure. Does it happen from the left side? Yeah, sure. This is just one video showing how violent the left can be. Quit covering your eyes and see that it happens on both ends.

 

Nobody is saying there isn't "violence" on the left. However Violence from the left is not as big a concern as Violence from White Supremacy. Why? because White Supremacist violence is THE NUMBER 1 for committing the most violent acts of ANY EXTREMIST GROUP in the country. Their body count is lower because they tend not to commit mass shooting acts in large areas.

 

https://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/state-of-white-supremacy

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/hate-incidents

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/16/look-data-domestic-terrorism-and-whos-behind-it/

 

It's like you are standing at an airport comparing a C-130 to a Cessna 172 and you keep saying "they are the same because they are both airplanes". Yes they are airplanes but if I was assessing the risk to the high rise apartment buildings at the end of the runway I am not going to say the 172 poses the same risk as a fully loaded c-130. To then continue to say the risk is the same is False Equivalency.

 

Why is False Equivalency important?

 

False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which two opposing arguments appear to be logically equivalent when in fact they are not

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

 

The tactic of False Equivalence is very important to White Supremacists right now because it down plays White Supremacists Violence by making it seem equal in scope, frequency, and magnitude to acts by similar groups. This is not a true statement. White Supremacy is not equal in scope, magnitude, or frequency to other group - to say that they are is to be an apologist for white supremacy.

 

If you are having a conversation about white supremacist violence in this country right now and you bring up leftist violence as a way to disarm the conversation with any kind of inference that they are equal (As you have Brandon) - you are participating the the White Supremacy False Equivalence campaign. You don't think you are supporting White Supremacy, but when you do this that is Absolutely without a doubt what you are doing.

 

 

I don't think he is saying only the Left is to blame. He's saying they aren't innocent. Clearly. Regardless of whatever the White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, whatever-the-fuck they call themselves do, this type of response isn't warranted either.

 

Ok, they aren't completely innocent. So what? They aren't the larger threat either. You can't use left violence to justify white supremacist violence. Two wrongs don't make a right. If your conversation is to pivot and point fingers to the left because you think a small amount of violence is equal to the number one perpetrator of domestic terrorism, then you are helping distract from the threat of White Supremacy.

 

We aren't out here looking for the cause of "liberal violence" we know the cause. It is the Increase in White Supremacist activity since this administration took office. The question is, why are the White Supremacists suddenly emboldened to become more public, grow their ranks, and act more? Well, maybe it has something to so with general conservatism's, the Republican party's, and this administration's tolerance of white supremacy.

[RedRocket1647545505]

Ok, they aren't completely innocent. So what? They aren't the larger threat either. You can't use left violence to justify white supremacist violence. Two wrongs don't make a right. If your conversation is to pivot and point fingers to the left because you think a small amount of violence is equal to the number one perpetrator of domestic terrorism, then you are helping distract from the threat of White Supremacy.

 

We aren't out here looking for the cause of "liberal violence" we know the cause. It is the Increase in White Supremacist activity since this administration took office. The question is, why are the White Supremacists suddenly emboldened to become more public, grow their ranks, and act more? Well, maybe it has something to so with general conservatism's, the Republican party's, and this administration's tolerance of white supremacy.

 

So what? People are bleeding in the street and your answer is 'So what?' Sweet Jesus...

 

What is so wrong about condemning BOTH sides? You keep saying white supremacists are the main antagonist. OK, then fix that. Don't say its ok to become a little violent as a way to combat it, because that's not ok either.

 

Kerry, clearly you're in support of the Left, and that's ok too. But the whole argument of 'If you don't support XYZ, then you're a racist, homophobic, xenophobic, white supremacist' is exactly what put Trump in the White House to begin with. Keep it up if you want him back there for another 4 years. People get tired of being labeled something they aren't just because they don't agree with you. They'll rush to the polls and vote against you just to piss you off.