Modern Synthetics Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I personally do not doubt it is a good if not superior oil. Though I understand doubts revolving around who funded the study, that in itself, would not dissuade me. Nearly every product on the market making claims against their competitors does so with data funded by or performed within their own labs. ( I was a research Chemist for 18 years and have 17 US Patents). Generally any product that resorts to independent dealers for their sales over, say an automotive franchise etc. charges more simply due to the method of distribution.The Amway approach, for example, adds several levels of "profit". To hold the price within reason they resort to lower levels of quality and rely on their reps to hype the products back up to the quality of their competition, which is usually priced significantly lower.My question- How much is Amsoil?The distribution method is different than that of the big oil companies but the price is not higher. Depending where you purchase Amsoil, the retail price for 10W/40 motorcycle oil is generally in the $10.50 - $11.00 per quart range. It is usually priced about the same as or lower than other oils that are true synthetics yet it outperforms the oils of those same competitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I'm wondering where the prices come from then... they wholesale? M1 is around $9/qt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I'm surprised the study and you guys have not mentioned Repsol (4T Racing Fully Synthetic Motor Oil - 10W40 /10W50) ... Is it no good or what?From stuff I've read about Repsol, it's quite good for the price. I've been watching for some Repsol 10W40 at the Pony, so I can try it, but it's always sold out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Synthetics Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I'm wondering where the prices come from then... they wholesale? M1 is around $9/qt.[/quoteThe last shop I was in that had Mobil motorcycle oils was selling the 10W/40 Racing 4t for over over $13 a quart and the 20W/50 V-Twin for over $12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 http://matrixsyntheticoils.com/store/page110.html#463$54 for 6 quarts... making it $9/qt. With shipping+tax from that site...it makes it around $11/quart.I can't find AutoZone or Advanced Auto Prices on 4T and VTwin oils specifically, but last time I was there it was < $10/qt.Regardless of pricing, that didn't address my question of how the 'study' shows Mobil 1 costing more than Amsoil. Are we comparing apples to apples? Retail to retail? Wholesale to wholesale?I want the out of pocket cost for both. Including tax, shipping, and any other hidden fees/junk. That's the comparison. How much money, out of my pocket will each cost me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Synthetics Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 How do we get some of this oil?If you are in or around Columbus you want to find a retailer you can use this link to locate one "Amsoil Retailers" You can have it delivered to your home by ordering online www.modernsynthetics.com or by telephone 800-956-5695. If ordering by telephone please be sure to mention referral #1471012. This will ensure that Ohio Rider's Sponsor, Modern Synthetics, receives credit for your purchase. If you have any questions please feel free to give me a call. 740-393-2453 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hmmmm... Amsoil dealer/rep showing an Amsoil funded "test" from a "independent lab" (Funded by Amsoil) and they just so happen to come up a winner...Thing is really simple. At the track, we have seen time and time again, MANY oils come up as being great under severe conditions. SAE test in a controlled environment are fine and dandy and show that a few of those oils are actually really close in key wear tests, if not better.But again, at the track and under severe use, oils like Maxima, Repsol, Motul, ELF, Royal Purple, etc. are all showing signs that they hold up and perform well in conditions not typically seen by the average rider. Afterall, real world tests that are performed at the track may show a tendency to be overkill for street use, but are great examples of if it works at the track, it will work for the street...Amsoil is rarely if ever seen at the track in top shelf competition. Sure, many guys run it and you can find examples of sponsored teams that get the oil and get paid to run it, but it is the top privateers that have to make sure their stuff stays together to have a chance to make money by winning. Guys at the WERA National level are a great measuring stick as to what works well.Robert Jensen, Vesrah, Knapp, Chapman (Get well soon, Zak!), TVR, etc. all are top teams and riders that make a shit pile of money through contingency payouts and they need their bikes to perform and stay together for every event. If they have mechanicals, they aren't making money and that won't do. Of all the top guys, none run Amsoil... Now, not saying Amsoil isn't good. It certainly is. But, to say it is the best is a stretch because I am sure there are tests that can be done to show it isn't the best in key areas. There are TONS of really great oils to choose from. Maxima, Motul, Bel Ray, Honda, YamaLube, Amsoil, Spectro, etc., etc., etc. For every oil, you will find a group of people that will swear by it and a small % that will say it is crap. That's with anything that really is good. But think about this. OEMs use oils that meet what they look for in terms of wear and tear in the motors they build. BMW doesn't have Amsoil on their approved oil list, for example... There are many examples against and for any name brand oil out there. My philosophy is if it has worked for you, keep using it.We've used Maxima, ELF, Repsol, and Motul. Any of those three have proven themselves to us when we were racing and from what I have seen in other race bikes out there. We've used Honda's stuff before with success and even Royal Purple, but we never had a motor torn down to see the results.The others? No bluing of key places and no wear issues shown. More importantly, with these liter bikes and how hard they are on oil, Repsol and Motul have shown to be great under these guides we look for in an oil. But, understand that others are using other name brand oils, too with GREAT success and similar results.Use what works. All these fancy tests and sales pitches are just that - sales pitches. If it works, use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Prices are going to vary slightly, but if an oil is $9-$13, it is what I would call comparable.Amsoil is what, $11 a liter/Qt? Repsol is $11-$13 depending where and who you get it from.$2 a Qt and having a total of $6-$8 difference isn't going to be an issue to a guy with a bike. They change their oil much more often than car guys do and the cost of operating a motorcycle is far less than a car so, $12-$16 a year difference in what they buy isn't a big deal...It's like arguing that paying $.20 a gallon more for a bike fill up is a big deal and that you should use Brand X gas instead of paying more at Brand Y... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Saving $10 isn't the reason I'm asking the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Synthetics Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I'm surprised the study and you guys have not mentioned Repsol (4T Racing Fully Synthetic Motor Oil - 10W40 /10W50) ... Is it no good or what?Not sure if Repsol and Mobil 1 are the same but Mobil 1 Racing 4t was in the study under the 10W/40 group and Mobil 1 20W/50 V-twin was included as well in the 20W/50 group. Mobil 1 oils are good oils but Amsoil still outperformed the Mobil 1 oils in several categories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Synthetics Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 http://matrixsyntheticoils.com/store/page110.html#463$54 for 6 quarts... making it $9/qt. With shipping+tax from that site...it makes it around $11/quart.I can't find AutoZone or Advanced Auto Prices on 4T and VTwin oils specifically, but last time I was there it was < $10/qt.Regardless of pricing, that didn't address my question of how the 'study' shows Mobil 1 costing more than Amsoil. Are we comparing apples to apples? Retail to retail? Wholesale to wholesale?I want the out of pocket cost for both. Including tax, shipping, and any other hidden fees/junk. That's the comparison. How much money, out of my pocket will each cost me?I'm sure the study was comparing retail pricing but I have no idea where they got the prices from. If you really want to know you could probably call Amsoil to find out. I don't handle shipping charges so I can't tell you how much it would be to your door. If you really want to know how much it would cost you to get 6 quarts of Amsoil shipped to YOUR door you could go to www.modernsynthetics.com and put the six quarts in the shopping cart and follow through the checkout process until it shows you the cost with shipping and taxes. Then close it out if you don't want to make the purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I did, but I don't want to give my e-mail or "setup and account" to purchase.I just wanted to know what tax on 6 quarts of MCFQT-EA SAE 10W-40 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil: (1) quart bottle x 6 was to zip code 44035 - I can add that to the $62.10 total.But these costs make me call the study into question because the one chart doesn't accurately reflect retail prices? It's like someone went to the most expensive retailer for prices, and then found the absolute lowest cost AMSoil... that's my qualm. And if the price chart isn't accurate, then what other data got massaged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exSRAaron Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balaormiga Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 I did, but I don't want to give my e-mail or "setup and account" to purchase.I just wanted to know what tax on 6 quarts of MCFQT-EA SAE 10W-40 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil: (1) quart bottle x 6 was to zip code 44035 - I can add that to the $62.10 total.But these costs make me call the study into question because the one chart doesn't accurately reflect retail prices? It's like someone went to the most expensive retailer for prices, and then found the absolute lowest cost AMSoil... that's my qualm. And if the price chart isn't accurate, then what other data got massaged?All the comments made to date have merit. As I have mentioned before just because the study was funded by Amsoil does not invalidate it. Every oil manufacturer in the study can contest the results if they feel they are significantly off. Every manufacturer, whether it be P&G, Loreal, Unilever, Ford, Chevy etc. funds studies and if the results look good for them they market the heck out of it. If the results do not look good they just don't say anything about it. Amsoil is no different. However, the distribution channels Amsoil uses would in my opinion add cost.Lizards comments mirror my own in that under real world riding conditions I bet any of the top oils are going to be comparable so pick the one that is the most convenient to purchase. Price is not that relevant in the grand scheme of things. $4-$5 per oil change is not much given that is about 2 gallons of gas.It has been my experience that instruments can often quantify differences that the consumer, or their machine, can not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aracnid007 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 I changed the oil in both my bikes a couple weeks ago. I wanted to switch them both to synthetic, and run a heavier oil in the Shadow, as the top-end makes allot of noise when hot (common Shadow problem I'm told). I also wanted to find something locally, that would be on the shelf when I wanted it. After some comparison shopping I ended up buying Mobil 1 4T 10w40 for both bikes. I was looking at the Amsoil, but my local dealer only had 3 quarts on the shelf. Like I said, local availability was a main concern. So far so good. The Shadow is much quieter (probably due to heavier weight) and the Interceptor seems to like the Mobil 1. We'll see at the next oil change. The Honda oil I put in the Interceptor at 500 miles came out "milky" looking at 3000. Didn't like that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAMBUSA Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Wow, tough crowd for a board sponsor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMwZsFKIXa8Thats why I like the board. The admins/mods don't censor us so board members are free to form their own opinions about a sponsor. While I'm sure everyone appreciates the sponsorship, it would all be a sham if we weren't allowed open and honest dialogue, critique, and rebuttals regarding what the sponsor is promoting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikejr879 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Ahh I Love Democracy !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikejr879 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 From stuff I've read about Repsol, it's quite good for the price. I've been watching for some Repsol 10W40 at the Pony, so I can try it, but it's always sold out.I tried to order the 10w40 from sportbiketrackgear.com they said its back ordered till October. Then I went to Iron Pony, they said the same. So I decided to purchase the 10w50. Not much of a difference... uhh and got a free Repsol T-Shirt... now I feel like a dork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Synthetics Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 I changed the oil in both my bikes a couple weeks ago. I wanted to switch them both to synthetic, and run a heavier oil in the Shadow, as the top-end makes allot of noise when hot (common Shadow problem I'm told). I also wanted to find something locally, that would be on the shelf when I wanted it. After some comparison shopping I ended up buying Mobil 1 4T 10w40 for both bikes. I was looking at the Amsoil, but my local dealer only had 3 quarts on the shelf. Like I said, local availability was a main concern. So far so good. The Shadow is much quieter (probably due to heavier weight) and the Interceptor seems to like the Mobil 1. We'll see at the next oil change. The Honda oil I put in the Interceptor at 500 miles came out "milky" looking at 3000. Didn't like that at all.If you get to Columbus area try one of these AMSOIL RETAILERS. They usually stock plenty of the motorcycle oils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Synthetics Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 If any of you patronize a dealer that does not carry Amsoil and you would like to see it on their shelves, please have them contact Modern Synthetics. I would be happy to set them up with an account. They do not have to pay a dime to get set up and there are no buy-ins or quantity requirements involved. Let them know that free delivery is part of the service I provide if I can work them into one of my bi-weekly or monthly routes. This is huge to most dealers because oil is expensive to ship and after freight charges there is no profit to be made on the oil. Spread the word - MODERN SYNTHETICS!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentracer Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) ok I have a question. the price chart per ounce has amsoil at .29 per ounce. right about in the middle of the price range. so how come your oil cost more than all of the other brands on that chart?I wanted some amsoil until I seen the $15/quart price tag.I'm very surprised to see that mobil 1 racing 4T did so well. I just tried that oil and I noticed a few things about it I don't like.for one it's really cloudy and dirty looking straight out of the jug compared to Repsol Sintetico. and smells like oil with 5k miles on it straight from the jug. it's been in for less than a 1k miles and it's already dirty dark brown. something repsol never did. I could change that stuff at 4k miles and it was still cleaner.and now I keep hitting N when shifting to 2nd.I am planing on getting it back out and going back to Repsol sintetico. it's the same price anyway. Edited August 13, 2009 by serpentracer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentracer Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 im sure amsoil paid for the study and money steers results. im not gonna continue to fight about oils, but i will say that many many people run rotella including myself with zero problems. good luck with the salesehh. using rotella, a motor oil designed for very low revving diesel engines in a high revving high heat engine in a motorcycle isn't the smartest thing.that's just fucking stupid honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjascott Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 What does it take to become a dealer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 If any of you patronize a dealer that does not carry Amsoil and you would like to see it on their shelves, please have them contact Modern Synthetics. I would be happy to set them up with an account. They do not have to pay a dime to get set up and there are no buy-ins or quantity requirements involved. Let them know that free delivery is part of the service I provide if I can work them into one of my bi-weekly or monthly routes. This is huge to most dealers because oil is expensive to ship and after freight charges there is no profit to be made on the oil. Spread the word - MODERN SYNTHETICS!!!!You are saying that dealers like the big ones in our area pay shipping on oil? The dealers I know have their oils ordered from TR and PU and usually have it all on big orders or are at a point in the way they buy that they do not pay shipping...So most isn't a good comment to be making here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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