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Team needs Endurance Rider Fasttrax/motoseries

ducatihottie999

By ducatihottie999
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Uncle Punk Grand Master

Uncle Punk

Posted
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I have never been timed at Nelsons but would think I wouldn't be in the 12's. Her signature says expert, do you have to have an expert license? I had a novice license but let it expire because I didn't race last year.

I currently don't have a track bike so this might be a way to entertain myself for track time this summer. How are they handling paying for crashed bikes?

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Moto-Brian Grand Master

Moto-Brian

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I must have mixed up posts on the FT site, so I apologize for the misinformation; Kathy didn't specify a lap time.

as for her "bashing" of OR, someone asked her what other forums she hung out on, and this was her reply: "as far as the desmo guys nope and ohio riders BLAGH! I hang at localriders.com"

I don't know what "BLAGH!" means, but I can understand that not everyone appreciates our shenanigans, or the fact that people felt the need to thread-jacked her post and proceeded to lecture about how much she's doing wrong. Is it really surprising that she doesn't frequent the site when this is the kind of response she gets?

I will say that her posts are leaving something to be desired. Coming on acting like a team owner and touting she doesn't do bikes half assed is comical to me.

She has a reputation and it precedes her.

The rule of thumb is simple. If you want racers to ride on an endurance team, don't make it sound like you've been doing it for a long time and know what's up. 8 years at FT ain't 8 years in the WERA Nationals. For fun? Sure. I recommend anyone wanting to have some fun to run FT. And, there's some good guys running endurance races up there. Even some notable guys. Like I stated, there's nothing wrong with FT and a buddy and I are thinking about running a couple for F-U-N.

BUT, if you wanna come across as knowing your shit, don't tell us that you run RaceTech stuff, going to go to a big tank and that you don't do things half assed. The facts are that if anyone wants to pay to ride a bike that they are going to not be competitive on, just grab a buddy and sign up. Paying 1/3 the costs is fine if there is 1/3 needing to be shared. Again, if you want to win, 3 riders is dumb. But not really knowing what you SHOULD do is important as there is a lot of money involved with racing endurance.

$ for entry.

$ for AT LEAST 2 sets of tires a weekend. (Really should be three sets)

$ for fuel. Again, not typical sprint stuff. 20-30 gallons...

$ for wear and tear never seems to pop up until it happens. Who pays for it?

$ for crashes or is she willing to cover it all? Doubtful so, what happens when someone crashes?

$ for maintaining the bike. Also, who maintains it?

$ for chaos items. Starts raining, they need rain tires NOW. That's money that needs to be brought for "in case". If it isn't and they were prepped for the situation, when they pull those out to use, that's money that needs to be sorted.

$ owed to riders if contingency is involved. How do they get paid? Instantly at the race or do they wait for the check, wait for the cashing and wait for the handing it out?

$ owed to riders that do not get equal seat time. What happens if a rider pays 1/3 for that event, but only gets 1 session and everyone else gets 2? Or, what happens if the bike is totalled at the 30 minute mark and the other two riders never turned a wheel?

These are tough questions that need answers. I guarantee they all haven't been thought about and I have even more. Like I said, we did this for 4 years at the National Level. We did things a LOT different and we had each rider submit $1k at the start of the year and went from there. Each rider paid equally or based on stint time. Fastest guy got an extra stint most the time, but it was due to winning contingency and spreading the wealth.

What gets me is that there are people wanting to do this and they aren't going to know any better. So, telling someone to explain and to be EXACT isn't to belittle her. It's to get the gears turning for possible riders. That way, they can ask the right questions and know what should be expected.

Now, if she chimed in and said it was for fun and if someone wanted to get some experience, that would have been different. To act like it is legit and they are going for the win, she's got a long ways to go and a lot to work through and a LOT of things to sort before that happens.

Sorry to be a kill-joy, but the idea is that getting the right info is important in this type of racing and even more so, it is important to be realistic and understand things well...

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Moto-Brian Grand Master

Moto-Brian

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I have never been timed at Nelsons but would think I wouldn't be in the 12's. Her signature says expert, do you have to have an expert license? I had a novice license but let it expire because I didn't race last year.

I currently don't have a track bike so this might be a way to entertain myself for track time this summer. How are they handling paying for crashed bikes?

It is open to novice and expert licensed racers. Endurance is open to multiple classes. The way FT does it, you should sign up for Heavyweight to be gridded up front. They grid HW first, MW second and LW third with Iron Butt in the back.

Run a 600 in HW and you'll get best grid position at the start. Not a huge deal until red flags come out... FT goes back to class grid positions vs. overall positions. That means, if you are in the lead and riding a 600, you will be gridded behind the HW teams. That amount of work getting around them can lead to the second place team catching up to you. It doesn't make sense to me and that's why we started running HW on our 600s...

I think you and a buddy can do this easily. It is a great chance to get some stellar seat time. FT runs a good show and they cater to the newer racers. There isn't the cut throat mentality that you MAY see in race series that have decent payouts. However, you are only as fast as the competition you surround yourself with and so, if you excel and want to get better, WERA is where you should look after getting your wings.

As for the handling crashed bikes... Like I said, that's touchy and can lead to serious issues. Some teams make EVERYONE pay equally if there's a crash. Some teams make the rider that crashed pay. Some riders are riding for free and don't pay a cent while others on the same team are paying and have to float the bill.

With FT, I suspect that majority of the teams are splitting costs. Whatever you choose to do, get IT ALL IN WRITTING and get it ALL UP FRONT.

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Todd#43 Grand Master

Todd#43

Posted
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Brian....

Boy oh boy you can get wound up about this racing thing.

Remember, she's talking about Fastrax. It used to be a great club, but it seems like now its full of wanna-be bad ass racers like Ms. Hunter. Ten years ago a guy (or girl) could cut his teeth at a small local series like FT, then move to WERA and do well. Seems like lately its not the case.

FWIW, we won an endurance championship with them in 2005. We had three riders (me, Doug Duane, and Dale Mirgliotta) the amount of bitching that was done because we had "an AMA Pro" licensed rider was unbelievable. That bitching was only surpassed by the bitching over running Doug's 05 GSX-R1000 for one race (instead of my 2002 GSX-R1000). Point is that you can do it with three riders, one set of tires, a standard tank, and 30 gallons of fuel without much trouble. FT never used to have a class winner plus and overall winner, maybe that's changed - I dunno.

Seriously "interviewing" riders for a series that doesnt pay any money back (beyond some bragging rights and giant trophies) is laughable. And you're right - her reputation precedes her.

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jester is dead Apprentice

jester is dead

Posted
Posted

at heleacoil

wow thats alot of info brian,and while i do agree with you that

kathy left alot of questions unanswered..............its FT and she

did say if ya wanna ride email her.(i assume she meant to work

it out in private w prospective riders)

i think its possible your level of endrance racing is beyond what

a FT team might be looking for as far as the "financial"

comitment needed to undergo a team effort that would meet

your standards.(no sarcasm intended)

imo FT is FOR FUN and the amount of $$ and time is relevent to

each teams goals.

obviously "leaning lizard" racing will be a different effort as oposed

to FBR (flat black racing) does this make either wrong????

no just different :)

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Moto-Brian Grand Master

Moto-Brian

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Posted
at heleacoil

wow thats alot of info brian,and while i do agree with you that

kathy left alot of questions unanswered..............its FT and she

did say if ya wanna ride email her.(i assume she meant to work

it out in private w prospective riders)

i think its possible your level of endrance racing is beyond what

a FT team might be looking for as far as the "financial"

comitment needed to undergo a team effort that would meet

your standards.(no sarcasm intended)

imo FT is FOR FUN and the amount of $$ and time is relevent to

each teams goals.

obviously "leaning lizard" racing will be a different effort as oposed

to FBR (flat black racing) does this make either wrong????

no just different :)

You are completely right and again, the assumption wasn't geared towards just plain old fun. Even if that is the case, my questions and points still are legit.

Too often the issues I ever had with FT had nothing to do with the club and more about the mentality towards WERA and outsiders. That has subsided as I think Todd has done a good job getting that turned around and sees the potentials to grow by making outsiders WANT to come around...

Now, as for the questions and involvement, there are a few constants that pertain to Flat Black Racing AND Leaning Lizard Racing...

1) Costs are split equally. That means, tires, fuel, parts, entry fees, etc. Three way spilts are easy to figure on paper, but there are associated costs that never seem to get figured out with greener teams that "pop up" and can turn everything upside down. Crashes, extra tires needed, wear and tear, etc...

2) If Fun is the goal, that's cool. If not winning or less of a care towards consistency and just riding with friends is the goal, why post want ads on every local forum? The idea would simply be to find people directly with FT and just plain ol' ride the bike and let the chips fall where they may... If she has spent her 401K on a bulk of tires (You would need at least 20 sets to even remotely make the season even on a slower pace and lesser budget), she is going to want to get that back. I would think winning is the goal if an investment like that (If it really is that big) has been placed.

3) I understand that there was the idea that she would talk offline and talk with potential riders about the team and structure. Again, my point is to educate guys that could be potential riders. Guys like Brandon from AJ's for example. I don't want a kid like that to get in a situation where he is spitting out cash for less return than he should get. I also don't want a kid like that to get burned and spend a bunch of money only to find out they cannot finish the season and he hasn't received a single equal seat time amount as the others. Or that the costs were well beyond what was expected and he dishes out more and more and by season's end, it is WELL beyond what he was told and has to sacrifice his sprint racing due to it.

I'm simply a voice of concern and also a voice that wants to be heard by potential riders. If they are interested and they have me in the back of their minds, I might be able to help them get through it. I also might be able to help them see issues or help them see that it is in fact legit and set-up well...

Advertising publicly and responding a lot on the "other" sites is what she has been doing and I feel that she is looking for attention more than a set of solid riders...

FT is a GREAT place to get your wings. As stated by Todd, it used to be a great platform to start and expand into WERA or similar. It had a rough spot for a few years as I think Bob pounded into people's heads that WERA was the devil and that the racing at the WERA level was cut throat and deadly. Now, Todd has taken less light off that and focused on what it takes to make things better. Todd has no love for me over something that happened a while ago, but that's over and water under the bridge in my mind. I have stated before and will say again that I am considering racing up there this season. If I have time. But, that means I respect what they are doing and feel it is worthy of consideration from local racers...

Sorry for the rant...

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redkow97 Grand Master

redkow97

Posted
Posted

I do appreciate the information and thoughts on endurance racing, Brian; it just doesn't sound very fun when you bring all the BS into it.

what I'm really hearing is:

- be prepared to spend more than you think you will need to.

- ride with people who you trust to do right by you when something you hadn't planned for goes wrong.

If I ever run an endurance team, I'll be choosing teammates I can trust first, and guys who go fast second.

The day riding my bike is what's pissing me off is the day I find a new hobby.

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Moto-Brian Grand Master

Moto-Brian

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Posted
I do appreciate the information and thoughts on endurance racing, Brian; it just doesn't sound very fun when you bring all the BS into it.

what I'm really hearing is:

- be prepared to spend more than you think you will need to.

- ride with people who you trust to do right by you when something you hadn't planned for goes wrong.

If I ever run an endurance team, I'll be choosing teammates I can trust first, and guys who go fast second.

The day riding my bike is what's pissing me off is the day I find a new hobby.

Dude, what BS did I bring into it? Seriously... What you are getting out of this is exactly why I am posting. You wouldn't have gotten it if the thread never put those facts out there...

As for the things you are hearing, you are correct. The fact is that if your agenda is to win and go fast, then riders who are consistent and similar to your abilities is what you need to pursue. If your agenda is to have fun (as I have stated about a million times at this point), then so be it. Grab the buddies and race. But understand just as in business, race teams are a great way for friendships to end. Especially endurance race teams.

Yes, trusting others is a majority of this. After all, she has a bike she is bringing to the table and what happens if that puppy gets wadded into a pop can at round two? Think everyone is going to be warm and fuzzy about it? What happens if that pop can is a result of a rider that did a dumb ass move and caused the crash? What happens if the rider refuses to pay for it all? What happens if the other two decide it isn't fair they should pay?

Preparing for the worse usually ends up making things easier in the end.

My reputation DOES precede me. Sometimes, what I have to say isn't what people want to hear. Sometimes, I say what people think but are not comfortable saying. In the end, I;m not always right,but guess what? A lot of times I am...

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walther_gsp Mentor

walther_gsp

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Too often the issues I ever had with FT had nothing to do with the club and more about the mentality towards WERA and outsiders. That has subsided as I think Todd has done a good job getting that turned around and sees the potentials to grow by making outsiders WANT to come around...

.

I rode with them a few times last year, and plan on getting my feet wet in racing with them this year. From what I've seen, I think Todd still has his work cut out for him in changing the mentality.

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walther_gsp Mentor

walther_gsp

Posted
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insert rant towards rk97.

dude, I think what he meant by BS is all the work/money/considerations for endurance racing. My impression is that he thought you pointed out good things that most folks new to it wouldn't consider and might leave a bad taste in their mouths if they were unaware. I don't think it was meant as a negative towards you.

I think we need to switch you to decaf buddy.

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redkow97 Grand Master

redkow97

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dude, I think what he meant by BS is all the work/money/considerations for endurance racing. My impression is that he thought you pointed out good things that most folks new to it wouldn't consider and might leave a bad taste in their mouths if they were unaware. I don't think it was meant as a negative towards you.

I think we need to switch you to decaf buddy.

exactly. I meant the "BS" of racing.

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