redkow97 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 if we're talking only racing, then I see your point, but trackdays are a mixed bag.EX500's on the track at the same time as 1000RR's... even if the EX500 rider is god on wheels, the liter bike rider is going to create some huge differences in closing speeds in a straight line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 if we're talking only racing, then I see your point, but trackdays are a mixed bag.EX500's on the track at the same time as 1000RR's... even if the EX500 rider is god on wheels, the liter bike rider is going to create some huge differences in closing speeds in a straight line.Dude, come on. Track days are a mixed bag for sure, but it isn't like the people riding are so different in ability that he's going to have issue. First, he'd start in Novice group which in about any org is limited and monitored to the point that it doesn't matter what you are riding as you'll never get any issues to pop up concerning closing speeds and related. Of course, there's going to be some instances, but not a concern.Intermediate group is going to start to have issues and that group is by all means the toughest and certainly, a bit of a gamble. HOWEVER, the fact is that many of the guys that have 1000s are VERY under equipped to handle the bike. Straight line speed is different for sure, but the corners are going to separate the two. Advanced is Advanced. The riders in that group should have the ability to judge, to pass and to handle such differences. He wouldn't be in that group and if he advances and gets into that group, he'll be totally fine and to the point he'll probably piss off a lot of egos...An EX500 is as capable as an SV that seems to be fine in your mind. The total top speed may be slightly off between the two, but it is minimal and certainly not a concern if weighing them out together.The other aspect is that riding a smaller CC bike develops corner speed and honestly as seen by the numerous 600 and 10000 pilots at track days, many should have started out smaller and worked up. I personally would pick an EX500 over anything for a few reasons. When weighed against the Aprilia or even a somewhat exotic bike like an RS125, the cost of maintaining the bike is going to favor the EX. Again, if he is wanting to try it out, cost should be considered.If against an SV or Kaw 650, the idea is that the EX is still cheaper and honestly, if set-up well enough (many are out there and could be seen at a lot of LW races this season and previous), ccan provide more than enough training to advance later.Finally, compared to a 600. Sending a kid out as a 14 or 15 year old with zero road race experience is silly. The Jake Lewis and Gerloffs out there are rare and if a parent pushes their child into a bike that is beyond what they can handle, they will get hurt. I think he should run the USGPRU and get a 125 or similar and run with those guys. Track days in the Novice group and Intermediate group on a 125 would be fine to practice and work in. But again, if he wants to dabble and see, why spend a pile of money when he can find out what he has and what direction he should go with his son by an EX 500 or even a Ninja 250.Seen NUMEROUS 500s and even 250s (And supermotos) in Intermediate group with zero issues. Now, they get into Advanced and IF the rider isn't up to speed, can cause issues with the others. Pretty rare and typically, they are moved down to I group and are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 My son who is 12 is wanting to road race. We have a supermoto we are going to build much like the OP started on. Once I feel he has a grasp on the fundamentals, I am moving him into a 125. We will work at track days to develop fundamentals and while he probably will not need to be in Novice group, I will have him in there to learn more obviously, but to also work on lines, body position and overall entry and exit speeds and skills.Point is simple. Track days are amazingly great to start out with. It doesn't matter if you are on a 125 or a 1000 ex-AMA race bike. I've seen guys in Intermediate with data acquisition components and full on AMA spec 600s running slow enough to be of a concern with the same topic. I've also been in enough Advanced groups and race day practices where we are combined with novices to know there are issues with closing speeds and top speeds that it would make you sick to your stomach. A LOT of close calls and erratic maneuvers needed to avoid. It's not just track days, dude... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortac Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Finally, compared to a 600. Sending a kid out as a 14 or 15 year old with zero road race experience is silly. he's got plenty of experience on a "paved" track. i think he'd do just fine on an (older) 600 personally, and i've seen him ride. the only limiting factor might be the size differences between his current bike and a SS bike. upwards of 150lbs difference. it would def. be a steep learning curve for sure, but he's got the basics of riding on a track down, passing, getting passed, riding in close proximity to others, crashing, etc.but i still vote for SV you can find them all over already setup, gas it and go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I've also been in enough Advanced groups and race day practices where we are combined with novices to know there are issues with closing speeds and top speeds that it would make you sick to your stomach. A LOT of close calls and erratic maneuvers needed to avoid. It's not just track days, dude...Man, if you had that big of a problem getting around me you could have said it to my face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 he's got plenty of experience on a "paved" track. i think he'd do just fine on an (older) 600 personally, and i've seen him ride. the only limiting factor might be the size differences between his current bike and a SS bike. upwards of 150lbs difference. it would def. be a steep learning curve for sure, but he's got the basics of riding on a track down, passing, getting passed, riding in close proximity to others, crashing, etc.but i still vote for SV you can find them all over already setup, gas it and go.No offense at all, but going from supermoto on pavement and from MX based riding to road racing is a totally different environment not to mention riding style. A 600 is a big step and could easily be a tough transition. Not to say it can't be done - many have. But, most are older and having more experience. If I were to be taking a kid under my wing from SM to road race, I would suggest nothing larger than an SV. I personally would get his young butt on a bike and into USGPRU for the best chance at advancing in road racing. For fun? Start small and work up... I've seen PLENTY of SM riders go out and do OK, but usually they are older riders and have more seat time. Young pups from MX or SM find it tough as the body position change takes time and from what they know, they center themselves on the bike and move it under them. That doesn't work really well and can bite them hard. 600s from 2006 until now are probably a bit much. Older 600s are heavy and honestly, going to struggle on corner speed vs an SV or EX... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Man, if you had that big of a problem getting around me you could have said it to my face. I didn't want to embarrass you, man. But, yeah... You were in my mind as the only guy I have ever had an issue with. So damn slow that I thought you were on a constant parade lap...I'm kidding, folks. NEVER had an issue with Crai... I mean KEITH. Like his avatar, he's smooth and consistent and predictable. Looks good and is not in the category I mention... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Zapp Posted October 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 thanks for the replies guys, i've been considering all those options as they come up. gonna keep my eyes peeled for a REALLY good deal on a trackbike (like an SV, or even an RS), but i'm not going to hurry it - he's still very much interested in Supermoto and 2012 may actually have a handful of local RACES (lack thereof has been the primary reason for wanted to jump into road-racing). I may have the opportunity to pick up a 2012 Ninja 250 for a few hundred bucks (dont ask), and may use that to introduce him to the track. I totally appreciate all the comments about closing speeds, and the fact the 250 is a complete dog. But its dirt cheap and easy to justify. We may end up only doing a couple trackdays and dumping the bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman_343 Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Your son would be quick on a RS125, or SV.. He's a good rider and I can see him doing well on a little bit bigger bike! Good luck, and I hope to see you all at the Beaverun events next year again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykill Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Ill take the ninja when your done with it for the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelstoker Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Don't rule out a Ducati 750, 800 or 900ss. Displacement is bigger but the bikes are air-cooled. Handle really well, most can be bought for under $3k and won't rev into the stratosphere like a 600.750ss might be a good choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Don't rule out a Ducati 750, 800 or 900ss. Displacement is bigger but the bikes are air-cooled. Handle really well, most can be bought for under $3k and won't rev into the stratosphere like a 600.750ss might be a good choice.I think the issue is that if he rides them and does well with them, he wants to race them. The bikes you listed, while cool, are not good choices for racing...I would say there is a lot to be thought of good ideas in this thread, but still contest that for price, go with an EX and then decide. Or, do an SV and grow into it, develop as a rider and start hauling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Zapp Posted December 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 finished the bike, just in time for xmas! it'll sit till spring time when the trackday transformation begins!... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadyone Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 Awesome!!! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossi419 Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 Ex 500...super cheap to race. or an sv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmassacre Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Hey, that looks familiar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Zapp Posted December 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Hey, that looks familiar!Shhhhhhhhh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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