Trayvon Martin case will not go to the Grand Jury

[magley64]

I don't know if he will be found guilty or not, but I am glad the wheels are in motion, and he will get a trial/judge/etc..

[magley64]

and since I am back in this thread....(shit)

I support your right to carry your sidearm, I just don't have a need for it myself. Your constitutional rights are my constitutional rights, they need to be preserved.

The only issue I've had with zimmerman (based on what i've heard) was how he was tryng to act like a police officer, judging someone before he had any information, and honestly using a firearm on an unarmed person. I'm almost as old as zimmerman, and there is NO WAY i'm pulling a gun on a 17 yr old kid (i wouldn't pull a gun on anyone, but definitely not a 17 yr old kid).

I'm proud of him for manning up, and turning himself in, that was the right call. Maybe shooting martin was a mistake, but we have to be held accountable for our actions, even mistakes.

[Scruit]

The only issue I've had with zimmerman (based on what i've heard) was how he was tryng to act like a police officer,

I've always said that following Martin was unwise, but not illegal.

using a firearm on an unarmed person

Generally speaking - ignoring the Martin/Zimmerman case... There are times when an unarmed person can use deadly force. If you are being strangled by someone and you have a gun in your holster, would you rather die than "shoot an unarmed man?"

Also, again speaking generally, if an unarmed person tries to disarm you would have a solid claim for self-defense, other factors notwithstanding. Imagine someone breaking into your house, and coming into your bedroom - you had enough warning to grab a shotgun. Now you suddenly find yourself nose-to-nose with the unarmed burglar. He reaches out and grabs hold of the barrel of your shotgun with both hands and tries to wrestle it away from you. He's much stronger than you are and you know you are going to lose control of the shotgun. Would you let him take the gun rather than "shoot an unarmed man?"

[swingset]

The only issue I've had with zimmerman (based on what i've heard) was how he was tryng to act like a police officer, judging someone before he had any information, and honestly using a firearm on an unarmed person. I'm almost as old as zimmerman, and there is NO WAY i'm pulling a gun on a 17 yr old kid (i wouldn't pull a gun on anyone, but definitely not a 17 yr old kid).

Put yourself in his position:

1. You're not on NW duty...just running an errand. So, that whole aspect of him being armed and in the NW program are rather null and void. But, it's an important distinction.

2. Your neighborhood has been burglarized a lot lately. Also very important. One of those thieves was spotted - a young black man. Not reported very much, but important detail.

3. You come back from your errand and in the evening drizzle a young black male with a hoodie is wandering around, kind of aimlessly, seemingly out of place. This arouses your suspicion, so you call it in.

4. When you see what he's up to, he acts MORE suspicious by darting in between two townhouses where he doesn't belong. 911 operator (who has no legal authority whatsoever) tells you not to follow him. You're thinking something is up, you get out to see where he went. You lose him. (my sole criticism of GZ is following him, which was tactically unwise but not illegal or in any way justification for being assaulted).

5. 911 operator tells you LE is inbound. You break off looking and go back to meet LE. On the way (according to his testimony and not refuted by anything we know of) Martin attacks you.

6. Martin knocks you down, hits you, and is slamming your head into the ground. Does Zimmerman know this is JUST a 17 year old kid? Does he just take the beating to see what happens? Does he know this attacker is unarmed? Better yet, is he under any legal obligation to just take the assault and hope for the best?

I think you see a villain in Zimmerman through the convenient lens of the media, and aren't seeing the problem....which is that Zimmerman didn't really do anything illegal or wrong by checking out someone suspicious, and he apparently didn't initiate the conflict or the violence. And worse, that once attacked he could not lay on the ground getting beat and see anything but stopping the fight.

Martin, if the aggressor (and it's pretty clear he was), is the criminal in this act. Yet, you default to seeing Zimmerman as the bad guy for looking after his neighborhood. Nothing he did was legal or just cause for being attacked, even if it was more than YOU might do if you see someone acting weird in your neighborhood.

Edited April 12, 2012 by swingset

[Pokey]

Damn that was spot on Craig!!!!!!!!

[magley64]

I don't have a shotgun, I never plan on buying one. The only way the burglar in the case you described would have a gun is if he brought it himself.

That's also not an apples to apples comparison (this didn't occur in zimmerman's home and martin was not B&E or attempting robbery) but I get what you are saying.

In my case, No I would not use a gun on an unarmed person, definitely not an unarmed person more than 10 years my junior.

Maybe it's easy for me to say since I will never be in such a situation, but I'm sticking with it.

[Pokey]

I don't have a shotgun, I never plan on buying one. The only way the burglar in the case you described would have a gun is if he brought it himself.

That's also not an apples to apples comparison (this didn't occur in zimmerman's home and martin was not B&E or attempting robbery) but I get what you are saying.

In my case, No I would not use a gun on an unarmed person, definitely not an unarmed person more than 10 years my junior.

Maybe it's easy for me to say since I will never be in such a situation, but I'm sticking with it.

I surely hope that an armed or unarmed attacker never enters your home or anywhere you happen to be, I have a feeling it would end very badly for you. And yes this kind of shit happens all the time....much too often these days. We can only stay lucky for so long, we are bound to get into a bad situation at some point in our lives that was not warranted or deserved. I choose the option of protection, instead of hoping/praying I will get away safely.

And have you seen many of these "so called young men" that are much younger than some of us?

Edited April 12, 2012 by Pokey

[magley64]

#4 and #6 are where my story would have changed.

#4, I'm not getting out of my vehicle to run down a young black man, just isn't happening, it's like a walrus chasing a cheetah...Perhaps I'd have followed with my car, but not likely, once the LE was contacted, they were handling the situation...

#6, if someone jumps on my back and starts slamming my head, I'm not reaching for a gun, I'm throwing elbows. The only time I'd reach for a gun (even if I carried one) was if I were faced with a gun.

[magley64]

I surely hope that an armed or unarmed attacker never enters your home or anywhere you happen to be, I have a feeling it would end very badly for you. And yes this kind of shit happens all the time....much too often these days. We can only stay lucky for so long, we are bound to get into a bad situation at some point in our lives that was not warranted or deserved. I choose the option of protection, instead of hoping/praying I will get away safely.

I'd be better off carrying a dynamically grounded lightning rod. Seriously, look at all the murders in my county, and discount all the murders by spouse/s.o./drug deal gone bad... I'm 10x more likely to be hit by lightning. I love living here... and we're all so poor, we're not worth robbing.

and I have other means of protection in my home, a firearm is just not worth the risk of having around.

[Scruit]

#6, if someone jumps on my back and starts slamming my head, I'm not reaching for a gun, I'm throwing elbows. The only time I'd reach for a gun (even if I carried one) was if I were faced with a gun.

That thinking will get you killed.

[Pokey]

#4 and #6 are where my story would have changed.

#4, I'm not getting out of my vehicle to run down a young black man, just isn't happening, it's like a walrus chasing a cheetah...Perhaps I'd have followed with my car, but not likely, once the LE was contacted, they were handling the situation...

#6, if someone jumps on my back and starts slamming my head, I'm not reaching for a gun, I'm throwing elbows. The only time I'd reach for a gun (even if I carried one) was if I were faced with a gun.

Best of luck with that, especially on a guy who is cranked up on drugs. You gotta do what makes you feel safe and good about yourself, I for one refuse to ever be a victim or a statistic. This aint Disneyland we live in, it is a fucked up society full of many folks who don't give a rats ass about you or your family. Luck......is just that.

[magley64]

it is a fucked up society full of many folks who don't give a rats ass about you or your family. Luck......is just that.

I'm sorry YOU live in that world, maybe you should move.

[tyler524]

I'm sorry YOU live in that world, maybe you should move.

Doesn't matter where you live, it can still happen to you. Even if you live in BFE with a 2 mile long driveway, it can still happen to you.

[Pokey]

I'm sorry YOU live in that world, maybe you should move.

Wow.....like having a conversation with a rock. You stay safe out there, sounds like you have everything under full control.

[magley64]

you do the same mang...

If i'm going to be any statistic, it's going to be motorcycle death. Fuggin cagers texting, reading the newspaper, doing their make-up, drinking and driving...

WAY more dangerous than anyone with a gun.

[Pokey]

Doesn't matter where you live, it can still happen to you. Even if you live in BFE with a 2 mile long driveway, it can still happen to you.

It happened to my Father in law just 2 years ago, and he just happens to live in BFE with a very long driveway.

[swingset]

#4 and #6 are where my story would have changed.

#4, I'm not getting out of my vehicle to run down a young black man, just isn't happening, it's like a walrus chasing a cheetah...Perhaps I'd have followed with my car, but not likely, once the LE was contacted, they were handling the situation...

#6, if someone jumps on my back and starts slamming my head, I'm not reaching for a gun, I'm throwing elbows. The only time I'd reach for a gun (even if I carried one) was if I were faced with a gun.

He didn't run him down, there's no evidence about that. He tried to figure out where he was going. Observing isn't hostile pursuit. And, he also did as instructed and gave up that to return to his truck.

I don't think he should have followed Martin on foot, but following a suspicious person who's darting in and out of townhouses isn't a crime, again.

As to your second point, it's sure easy to armchair quarterback when you're not in fear for your life...you have no fucking clue what you'd do in the dark if someone got the better of you and you found yourself on the ground with NO CLUE WHATSOEVER if they had a gun, or a knife, or would just split your skull with their hands. People kill each other, even teenagers, with fists every single day. You can't be in that split second, fight-or-flight situation and do any mental math about "gee, is this guy a teenager, or is he armed, or should I jump to my feet and give him a flying-roundhouse-taco-kick". You're in the shit, and you react with the tools you have to survive. Martin chose fists, Zimmerman chose a gun. If Zimmerman had been unarmed, he might be dead. Witnesses corroborate his testimony about this stuff, btw.

Zimmerman brought the fight to an end, because he was losing the fight it's not his legal or moral imperative to be a badass....maybe he's weak or sucks at fighting...whatever...hell he could have been 66 years old, or a woman, but none of that matters. He was being attacked and that's justification to defend himself.

This is not about how any of us would handle it. It's about what went down, and who initiated the violence. Legally, that's all that should matter.

Edited April 12, 2012 by swingset

[Exarch]

Well clearly every one of us has took our own si.de and no ine is gunna chanhe anyone elses mind s

Edited April 12, 2012 by Exarch

[Strictly Street]

This whole story is unfortunate. Zimmerman is an idiot and I have no sympathy for him. You wanna' be a cop? Then join the fucking police force. Pursuit of a "suspect"' date=' on foot, while fucking armed, is asking for trouble.[/quote']

Pursuit of a "suspect", on foot, while not fucking armed, is asking for trouble.

No matter what it seems the three minute rule works again, if it would have been just three minutes one way or the other the whole thing just wouldn't have happened.

I've been surprised at the black community using this as some sort of political tool for an anti-white agenda when Zimmerman is Hispanic/Latino. Sure can't tell which for sure from the news reports. Can't tell what the political angle is besides getting as many people worked up as quick as possible

People where I work were just jumping all over this one. "They arrested him!" like it was some sort of prize.

You have to wonder if the tables were turned, would this have even been news?

Sigh, its a weird world out there.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Strictly Street

[smashweights]

Pursuit of a "suspect", on foot, while not fucking armed, is asking for trouble.

No matter what it seems the three minute rule works again, if it would have been just three minutes one way or the other the whole thing just wouldn't have happened.

I've been surprised at the black community using this as some sort of political tool for an anti-white agenda when Zimmerman is Hispanic/Latino. Sure can't tell which for sure from the news reports. Can't tell what the political angle is besides getting as many people worked up as quick as possible

People where I work were just jumping all over this one. "They arrested him!" like it was some sort of prize.

You have to wonder if the tables were turned, would this have even been news?

Sigh, its a weird world out there.

He is "white hispanic" haven't you read the NY Times? Or listen to the black panthers? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLiJ4k5QPNs&feature=related

It's not about facts all the time, sometimes it's whatever best suits your objectives. News media benefits from racially charged stories, the Panthers do too.

[magley64]

you have no fucking clue what you'd do in the dark if someone got the better of you and you found yourself on the ground with NO CLUE WHATSOEVER if they had a gun, or a knife, or would just split your skull with their hands.

Actually I do... I've made the decision not to carry a weapon, therefore I'm fighting with my fists/elbows/legs and knees, it's all I got, it's all I need. If it's not good enough, and I end up killed, I hope the justice system would investigate the situation (as it seems to finally have done in this case)

hell he could have been 66 years old, or a woman, but none of that matters.

but he wasn't, he was a full grown man, like myself, and he was illegedly attacked by a teenage kid...

Don't get me wrong, I don't care about either party, I've never met them, I've never spoken to either, and on the whole I'm pretty selfish, so I could care less how it turns out.

At this point, I'm satisfied with how it's been handled, I'm content with letting the justice system run it's course.

[swingset]

This whole story is unfortunate. Zimmerman is an idiot and I have no sympathy for him. You wanna' be a cop? Then join the fucking police force. Pursuit of a "suspect"' date=' on foot, while fucking armed, is asking for trouble.[/quote']

I think he shouldn't have gotten out on foot, but it was clear at that point (Martin began running) that Zimmerman highly suspected Martin was up to something bad or was a possible burglar. He attempted briefly to follow him, then quit. That's the most important detail - he QUIT FOLLOWING.

Does that action of following Martin after seeing his weird behavior, however little you think of Zimmerman following the guy, justify Martin attacking him?

Why didn't Martin just go home? Zimmerman quit following him, again. From what we know there was no real confrontation...and Zimmerman clearly lost Martin so whatever happened up until then is really immaterial anyway.

Why don't you have any scorn of Martin? Don't you think he could have avoided all this just as easily by not acting weird, darting in and out of the townhouses, and just leaving instead of getting physical?

[magley64]

another funny... zimmerman went "rouge" the last few days?

http://www.examiner.com/pop-culture-in-hartford/zimmerman-lawyers-withdraw-as-he-goes-rouge-and-loses-contact

why did he go pink/red?

did they mean rogue?

[magley64]

Why don't you have any scorn of Martin?

IMO, it's more difficult to have scorn for a dead person... not impossible, just harder, they've already paid the ultimate price...

also "illegedly" QUIT FOLLOWING, there is still a ton of wind noise on the microphone, which kinda makes me doubt that part of the story...

Edited April 12, 2012 by magley64

[swingset]

Actually I do... I've made the decision not to carry a weapon, therefore I'm fighting with my fists/elbows/legs and knees, it's all I got, it's all I need. If it's not good enough, and I end up killed, I hope the justice system would investigate the situation (as it seems to finally have done in this case)

No, you have no idea if you'll have any fight in you in an assault. You have no clue if the person who hits you is armed, or is a kid, or is just fucking meaner than you. You have no clue if that first punch hits you in a way that disorients you, you have no idea if you'll have the use of your arms, or that you'll be able to stand up, or run, or even think clearly. You don't know if you'll get knifed, or your attacker has a friend, you don't know if you'll get knocked out, or beat the fuck out of someone. You have no clue....except that you're going to be unarmed. That's your choice, but don't tell me you know how the assault will go down.

but he wasn't, he was a full grown man, like myself, and he was illegedly attacked by a teenage kid...

He was a chubby guy attacked by an athletic kid who was taller and faster than he was and might have had the element of surprise. See above for reasons why that doesn't always go your way. Trayvon was a big kid, not a weak child.

At this point, I'm satisfied with how it's been handled, I'm content with letting the justice system run it's course.

I'm disgusted at how it's been handled, from the awful race-baiting to the rush to judgment, to the biased reporting and the ridiculous political pressure that's fueling this charge. But we'll see what comes out in trial.