back to the basics

[blue03636]

I wish I could read

[mello dude]

^^ I'll ad that IMHO the best "sporty" riding book out there is Nick Ienatch's Sport Riding Techniques - A most excellent riders book

http://www.amazon.com/Sport-Riding-Techniques-Develop-Confidence/dp/1893618072/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334626152&sr=8-1

[Mykill]

I wish I could read

I wish you could too. Then my "exit only" tattoo would've done its job.

[Exarch]

Ok - I suckered you into answering -- that road on difficulty is a 10 out of 10 - even for experienced riders. The spot you when down is not a place to be fooling around. I'm guessing you missed the loose sand that accumulates at the bottom of the corner, and you hit the front brake and got spit off.

The experienced rider advise? Get another thousand miles or 2 before you go back. But if you have to, at the bottom of the hill you need to be in 1st gear, feather the rear brake, and stay wide in the corner. The hairpin drops elevation and will bite you. Just get through it.

I've lost count of how many crashes on that road I've seen or heard about. And I did do the mistake of taking a newbie though there. - Yeah, he wrecked.

Please take heed of what the experienced riders here are saying. Riding well takes time to build up the skills. Dont assume that you can instantly "get it."

how are you supposed to downshift more when as soon as you get out of one apex your already in the next? And the first curve is a easy/faster curve than the second apex. I prob should of slowed more and droped it to like 5mph, but im still not quite sure how to downshift without skipping gears.

It seems to me the shifting process of the bike is more/less comparable to a semi truck rather than a car. In my car I slap it in whatever gear I feel like whenever I feel like it, well atleast while downshifting. When u upshift I hit every gear 95% of the time, unless im coasting for a while then ill jump up a gear. Now in a semi I hit every gear every time up and down(unless I have to suddenly slam the breaks for whatever reason)

[SWing'R]

Going around a tight cornor, I dont think I was leaned far enough left so I leaned farther left while giving it gas for more traction, well I think I was in too high of a gear cuz when I hit the throttle my rear tire didnt seem to grip the road like it should and then my bike kind of just slid from there(not a major slide, but enough to make me panic some) and thats when I hit the break and the back end swung around and the bike went into a full slide. It all happened pretty quickly, and even after I felt the bike slide more when I hit the break I kept on it. I wasnt thinking clearly.

Sounds like maybe your back wheel lost traction from some debris/gravel or simply to much lean angle

[mello dude]

but im still not quite sure how to downshift without skipping gears.

That road really needs to be done in 1st and 2nd only. If you clipped 3rd you were over your head.

Your statements and particularly the one above tell me you need to get some class work and soon.

In the mean time get to a parking lot and practice hard braking and - practice good downshifts - Touch clutch, blip throttle, click gear, let out clutch. Be Smooooooth! (For good riders its near simultanous)

Edited April 17, 2012 by mello dude

[NinjaNick]

You just have to multitask fast for superb quick shifting while doing other tasks. It'll come man, just think well and gain experience riding.

[Exarch]

Sounds like maybe your back wheel lost traction from some debris/gravel or simply to much lean angle

I may have hit some debre idk, I didnt bother checking the road where I slid, but all the other bikes made it through no problem(they made it look easy) so im not 100% sure why I slid in the first place and the only thing i.can think of was 10mph in 5th gear could of caused a slip(cuz I know if you take a turn in the wrong gear in a car you lose quite a bit of traction)

[oldschoolsdime92]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0wJ4iMY0hM

[Exarch]

That road really needs to be done in 1st and 2nd only. If you clipped 3rd you were over your head.

Your statements and particularly the one above tell me you need to get some class work and soon.

In the mean time get to a parking lot and practice hard braking and - practice good downshifts - Touch clutch, blip throttle, click gear, let out clutch. Be Smooooooth! (For good riders its near simultanous)

My downshifting is still far from smooth on my bike im sure if I didnt drive a stick/semi my downshifting would br far worse. I really need to break the cage habit during down shifting, although the transition from car to semi was cake as far as downshifting goes, but the bike is a whole nother story for me.

[Exarch]

Ill watch.this.again when I get home from work.

[QuikAccord]

Okay I want to clear some things up here.

Photo is of 350 west bound while traveling west coming down to the switch back.

This is where he went down, blue arrow is our direction of travel, grey squiggle is where his scrape marks were left on the asphalt, and green is where his bike was up right and park when I came back to check on him.

The road was clear, no debris. Curve was to the left and He slid on the right side of his bike. My best guess is that he got intimidated and panicked.

I went through the switch back came to a stop at the bottom of the hill off to the side waited for him to come down. After a minute or so I doubled back to see what had happened.

[Exarch]

Okay I want to clear some things up here.

Photo is of 350 west bound while traveling west coming down to the switch back.

This is where he went down, blue arrow is our direction of travel, grey squiggle is where his scrape marks were left on the asphalt, and green is where his bike was up right and park when I came back to check on him.

The road was clear, no debris. Curve was to the left and He slid on the right side of his bike. My best guess is that he got intimidated and panicked.

I went through the switch back came to a stop at the bottom of the hill off to the side waited for him to come down. After a minute or so I doubled back to see what had happened.

oh also I dont think I was looking left like I should of been, hell I dont even remember where my eyes were looking, at the ground I think, and thats exactly where I ended up

Edit - Also I think I leaned way to early b4 the apex which couldnt of helped my case.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Exarch

[redkow97]

the only thing i.can think of was 10mph in 5th gear could of caused a slip

If you were in 5th going 10mph, you could have stalled the engine, which would lock the rear wheel. In a turn, that's almost a guaranteed crash.

[cOoTeR]

I may have hit some debre idk, I didnt bother checking the road where I slid, but all the other bikes made it through no problem(they made it look easy) so im not 100% sure why I slid in the first place and the only thing i.can think of was 10mph in 5th gear could of caused a slip(cuz I know if you take a turn in the wrong gear in a car you lose quite a bit of traction)

You need to learn to match engine and tire speed (proper shifting).

As far as the other bikes making it look easy ( I don't think it applies here so much but for the future) your bike isn't really a sport bike. Not trying to be mean but as far as handling goes especially with stock tires it won't stick like a ninja 600 or cbr. I don't know what the suspension on your bike is like but I would guess its slightly lacking. So don't base yours and your bikes abilities off of what other people can do.

[cOoTeR]

Okay I want to clear some things up here.

Photo is of 350 west bound while traveling west coming down to the switch back.

This is where he went down, blue arrow is our direction of travel, grey squiggle is where his scrape marks were left on the asphalt, and green is where his bike was up right and park when I came back to check on him.

The road was clear, no debris. Curve was to the left and He slid on the right side of his bike. My best guess is that he got intimidated and panicked.

I went through the switch back came to a stop at the bottom of the hill off to the side waited for him to come down. After a minute or so I doubled back to see what had happened.

My guess would be doesn't know how to counter steer and also grabbed a handful of front brake.

Bike slid on its rightside in a left hand turn. That's a high side technically, right?

[AfroCBR]

The infamous "Dayton Route" has claimed yet another victim..... that part is SUPER steep....and intimidating...even to the best riders (like Ninja Nick!! lol!!). Best of luck on getting your bike all pieced back together. Alan...you crack me up....I love the photos!!!! Ride safe fellas...and keep the shiny side up!

[redkow97]

Delete

[mello dude]

Okay I want to clear some things up here.

Photo is of 350 west bound while traveling west coming down to the switch back.

This is where he went down, blue arrow is our direction of travel, grey squiggle is where his scrape marks were left on the asphalt, and green is where his bike was up right and park when I came back to check on him.

The road was clear, no debris. Curve was to the left and He slid on the right side of his bike. My best guess is that he got intimidated and panicked.

I went through the switch back came to a stop at the bottom of the hill off to the side waited for him to come down. After a minute or so I doubled back to see what had happened.

Thanks for the clear up photo - Looks like he fixated on the gaurd rail and freaked.

- I love that section of road going west. Its a great sphincter puckerer. Probly been through there a thousand times.

[buildit]

You need to learn to match engine and tire speed (proper shifting).

As far as the other bikes making it look easy ( I don't think it applies here so much but for the future) your bike isn't really a sport bike. Not trying to be mean but as far as handling goes especially with stock tires it won't stick like a ninja 600 or cbr. I don't know what the suspension on your bike is like but I would guess its slightly lacking. So don't base yours and your bikes abilities off of what other people can do.

That's odd, my DL1000 can outcorner a lot of sport bikes, or is it the riders I'm out cornering? It's skill, not the bike. A dirt bike rider with full nobbies can out corner an inexperienced rider on any bike. Sorry, just the difference between doing it and knowing how to do it right.

Here's a almost stock KLR650 on a track with an experienced rider chasing a full on sport bike with an intermediate rider. Where is the KLR catching him? Yep, in the corners!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4zub8CRp1o

And since you might not know what a KLR650 looks like see below.

[Exarch]

If you were in 5th going 10mph, you could have stalled the engine, which would lock the rear wheel. In a turn, that's almost a guaranteed crash.

it didnt stall out

[Exarch]

You need to learn to match engine and tire speed (proper shifting).

As far as the other bikes making it look easy ( I don't think it applies here so much but for the future) your bike isn't really a sport bike. Not trying to be mean but as far as handling goes especially with stock tires it won't stick like a ninja 600 or cbr. I don't know what the suspension on your bike is like but I would guess its slightly lacking. So don't base yours and your bikes abilities off of what other people can do.

sports bikes, cruisers, and an eundo(or whatever they are called street legal dirt bike) all made it just fine, even the chick i saw on her lil cruiser did it just fine. the guy on the dirt bike even stoped to help me out after i wiped out. i cant blame the bike for me wrecking as im sure it could of made it easy if i would of done what should of been done correctly. it was a harsh lesson learned, but just cosmetics and a lil bit of $$ for the most part. im just glad i didnt get ran over by a car while i was laid down in the middle of the road or didnt slide into the other lane cuz that would of turned real bad real quick. i came out pretty lucky as i see it. im not even that upset that i wrecked the bike(not happy either cuz ima have to cancle my skills test friday ) shit happens, dust myself off and learn from my mistakes and try to just gain more experience from it.

[NinjaNick]

The infamous "Dayton Route" has claimed yet another victim..... that part is SUPER steep....and intimidating...even to the best riders (like Ninja Nick!! lol!!). Best of luck on getting your bike all pieced back together. Alan...you crack me up....I love the photos!!!! Ride safe fellas...and keep the shiny side up!

Recognize! Lol

Haters gonna hate....lol

[Sen10nalz]

Oh man, I just did the same thing ... I slid on gravel this past sunday going 15MPH on a right turn in a residential area. I saw the gravel and the construction sign. I looked at my friend and his bike ahead of me and thinking he needs to watch out for that.. The whole day i was riding behind my buddy who is just learning how to ride. Kept giving him tips and ended up being the one the blew it. Fortunately only my frame slider was damaged. and my right leg is still aching from trying to save the ninja from tipping.

[cOoTeR]

That's odd, my DL1000 can outcorner a lot of sport bikes, or is it the riders I'm out cornering? It's skill, not the bike. A dirt bike rider with full nobbies can out corner an inexperienced rider on any bike. Sorry, just the difference between doing it and knowing how to do it right.

Here's a almost stock KLR650 on a track with an experienced rider chasing a full on sport bike with an intermediate rider. Where is the KLR catching him? Yep, in the corners!

And since you might not know what a KLR650 looks like see below.

I know what a klr is I asked you for advice a few weeks ago when I was thinking of buying one. Your comparing a dirt bike which is also designed to corner super well to a bike that's a few steps away from being a scooter. The track video I doubt the guy was running a hard compound tire designed for commuting like the tire found on the ninja 250. I could corner great on a cruiser or sport bike but on the cruiser it was no where near as easy or fast as on my cbr. Now I'm on a klx450 and I can't corner it nearly as well as the cbr. The cbr was simple to learn great cornering on. The klx is was different not that it can't be done but I doubt ill ever be able to corner the klx the same as the cbr. Especially with out the softer tires on it. Yes experience has a lot to do with it but the bike your on determines its limits. My main point I was trying to make was you had a rider with basically 0 experience riding with a rider with more experience. The more experienced rider was on a bike built to race and the less experienced rider on a bike that is designed to introduce a person to riding or for use as a fuel efficient vehicle. You can't expect both to be able to do the same things. Put a rider with a decent amount of experience on these two bikes and i'd put my money on their cornering (the rider) will be better on the cbr. There is no way the tire on the 250 will stick the same as on the cbr rr. So you can push the cbr a lot harder than the 250 ninja. Yes YOU may be able to out corner several people on sport bikes while on a dirt machine. But can you honestly say that if you were on a sportbike it would corner the same as your Dl? When comparing things you need a constant or a control if comparing 2 riders to get an accurate comparison they'd need the same bike. If comparing 2 bikes you would need an equally skilled rider or the same rider. Otherwise its an apples to oranges comparison.

Edited April 17, 2012 by cOoTeR