back to the basics

[Moto-Brian]

Props to ya Exarch for being the man of the house and working hard for the livelyhood of your family - I rep ya for that integrity alone.

You definitely need some schooling on physics pros/cons with your bike, so try to make that a priority soon so you can gain valuable skills to keep you safe - it will pay you back 2fold on your insurance premiums so its a win win.

From what I see in the map pic of your crash site, I'd wager you fixated on the oncoming guardrail and panic stomped the rear brake making your bike slide out to the left and putting you down on your right side - only thing that makes sense to me since you rightsided a left turn? Just go easy this season and like you said, take the lucky lesson as a whole and continue to learn from it man. The season is just beginning so you have plenty of time to skill-build all year! Low speed maneuvering in an empty parking lot will help you understand YOUR bike's capabilities and the more you do it, the better you'll do it

GREAT thoughts!! I guess I take for granted that everyone should be using the front brakes mostly. I forget that newer riders tend to use the rear brake mostly... You, my man are probably dead nuts on what occurred. Good call.

Exarch, again... Nobody here is going to bash you for working your ass off for you and your family. I understand hard work and almost zero time for anything else.

But again, something to consider... You have a motorcycle that you worked hard for. You have a family you work hard for and love greatly. The issue here is that you are VERY low on the totem pole in terms of ability. Essentially, I would wager you had zero experience prior to buying. No off road, nothing...

So, the issue/concern with me is two fold. One, you are trying to get info. That's great. However, you are processing it wrong simply due to not knowing. The top reason I hate the internet - it is too easy to get drawn in to what you feel or read to be correct when in fact, it is dangerous and can be deadly if done wrong.

Second, this sport is dangerous. Sport, hobby, etc... Dangerous as in even if you have YEARS of experience, are one of the best riders in the world, etc. - there are so many variables out there that face riders that if you have ZERO experience, that can pose a serious issue. I've raced for a long time. I've watched heros die, I've watched heros make mistakes and end up in wheelchairs. I have witnessed friends and peers crash and die in front of me. It's even more dangerous on the street. I've seen the results of other people making mistakes, riders making mistakes, riders going outside their ability window, etc. Some get back up and dust off, some have been picked up in pieces and their next of kin called by a sheriff...

You need to make it a priority. Number 1 if you want to keep riding. Do it for that family you work your ass off for. You can get the days off. Again, quit looking at it as lost wages. $320? That's chicken feed compared to what can/will happen if you keep avoiding it or prolong it... One day or two days is nothing compared to having to take a day off to go to the doctor and do rehab. Or, God forbid you get hurt to the point you need to be off for a week... Employers don't take crashes as excuses for missing work. Had a buddy have a serious crash and missed a month from work. They had to replace him while he was gone. He came back, but guess what? They stuck with the other guy and he got laid off...

Just saying I respect what you do for working and family. i do. But, I also have seen thousands of guys like yourself from when I worked at the shop to all the years racing and working in the motorcycle industry. It's just something that can be resolved and easily a way to get educated...

[Exarch]

Props to ya Exarch for being the man of the house and working hard for the livelyhood of your family - I rep ya for that integrity alone.

You definitely need some schooling on physics pros/cons with your bike, so try to make that a priority soon so you can gain valuable skills to keep you safe - it will pay you back 2fold on your insurance premiums so its a win win.

From what I see in the map pic of your crash site, I'd wager you fixated on the oncoming guardrail and panic stomped the rear brake making your bike slide out to the left and putting you down on your right side - only thing that makes sense to me since you rightsided a left turn? Just go easy this season and like you said, take the lucky lesson as a whole and continue to learn from it man. The season is just beginning so you have plenty of time to skill-build all year! Low speed maneuvering in an empty parking lot will help you understand YOUR bike's capabilities and the more you do it, the better you'll do it

Didnt touch the rare break, only the front. Im not even sure 100% how I got the bike to the right. It felt like the back swung around on me, could of been the front slid around, but it felt like the back.

Edit- come to think of it I barley ever touch the rare break, even at stops(something I still need to get used to) I dont seem to get alot of use out of it as its weak, but I know im gunna need it, especially in an emergency.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Exarch

[blue03636]

You don't need a rear brake unless your in grass. The front does 90% anyway.

[snot]

You don't need a rear brake unless your in grass. The front does 90% anyway.

you do on an incline when taking off

[redkow97]

what's all this discussion of the CBR being so much heavier than the EX250?

Internet says the 2009 EX250 is 374 wet, and, the CBR (2009) is around 427.

50 lbs. is certainly significant, but differences in rider weight could easily make it negligible.

[Moto-Brian]

what's all this discussion of the CBR being so much heavier than the EX250?

Internet says the 2009 EX250 is 374 wet, and, the CBR (2009) is around 427.

50 lbs. is certainly significant, but differences in rider weight could easily make it negligible.

50 lbs in bike terms is a ton. 50 lbs and where it is located, etc. Flop a 250 around and then go ride a CBR. WAY different.

Look, we can all get into this BS back and forth about how one handles, how one doesn't and how a fucking dirt bike beats everything cause Billy Bad Ass did it at one time.

I don't care anymore. I said my piece and suggested what I did. You all can armchair from here and pretend that things are all the same. I'm out.

[Bad324]

you do on an incline when taking off

learn to use the feel of the clutch and you won't need to Took me a bit to learn but once i did I can't tell you the last time I touched the rear brake

[Exarch]

Picked up my new mirror and bar today

[Exarch]

The tires on the Ninja are just as capable as the tires on a CBR. Now, you are saying the Ninja has shit tires and the CBR has good tires. The Ninja is capable of a higher corner speed. Limited by the tires if you say, the light weight and cornerspeed capacity will at worse, equal the CBR.

The Keyhole example I think you are using is a good example. The Ninja doesn't have to let off and settle into the turn and use throttle modulation to adjust line and needle through the series of turns. At the top of the keyhole, the Nonja's corner speed is amazing. It again isn't having to use throttle modulation to maintain the line and speed.

The 600 is heavier. I've ridden everything from RC8R to Ninja 250s to Super Dukes on OEM tires around Mid-Ohio. Even a 600... I can tell you that it takes a little mind wrapping to get the idea that you can carry more corner speed on the 250. Reason being, off a liter bike through those series of turns and you aren't carrying as much corner speed at the smaller bikes.

Why do you think a 600 can run a faster lap than a liter bike at tighter tracks? Same brand of tires, same rider...

Tires are tires. Bikes are bikes. The OEM stuff on both bikes have limits. But, the Ninja weighs a ton less. It has a lot less mass being tossed around. We are talking tight turn stuff. Dog legs and such, not so much. The little bikes weigh less, can carry higher corner speed. You don't let off as soon, you hammer the throttle sooner w/o upsetting the chassis, you can drive through the turn at apex at a higher rate of speed. On race tires or OEM tires.

Can I run a faster lap on the 600 vs the 250? Sure. But we are talking corner speed. Where the Ninja shines is in the tight technical stuff that is marginally, similar no matter what bike you ride. Where the bike suffers is drive out, straightline speed and overall average MPH on a bigger course.

Think of it this way. Would you go faster around the go kart track on a YSR with those old stock tires or a CBR 600 on current OEM sticky tires? Your answer should be the YSR...

The rider plays a bigger part(obviously look at my case lol) unless a rider can push a bike to.its full potential(not the full potential) than its kind of hard to compare the bikes to.eachother correctly.

[Exarch]

GREAT thoughts!! I guess I take for granted that everyone should be using the front brakes mostly. I forget that newer riders tend to use the rear brake mostly... You, my man are probably dead nuts on what occurred. Good call.

I usually ride with my right foot under the break instead of covering it, n 1/2.the time I forget about it.all together =/

Exarch, again... Nobody here is going to bash you for working your ass off for you and your family. I understand hard work and almost zero time for anything else.

But again, something to consider... You have a motorcycle that you worked hard for. You have a family you work hard for and love greatly. The issue here is that you are VERY low on the totem pole in terms of ability. Essentially, I would wager you had zero experience prior to buying. No off road, nothing...

I had about 250 miles between a v-star and a aero, but only in the city

So, the issue/concern with me is two fold. One, you are trying to get info. That's great. However, you are processing it wrong simply due to not knowing. The top reason I hate the internet - it is too easy to get drawn in to what you feel or read to be correct when in fact, it is dangerous and can be deadly if done wrong.

I ended up following the exact advice I was told not to do if something went wrong unfortunately

Second, this sport is dangerous. Sport, hobby, etc... Dangerous as in even if you have YEARS of experience, are one of the best riders in the world, etc. - there are so many variables out there that face riders that if you have ZERO experience, that can pose a serious issue. I've raced for a long time. I've watched heros die, I've watched heros make mistakes and end up in wheelchairs. I have witnessed friends and peers crash and die in front of me. It's even more dangerous on the street. I've seen the results of other people making mistakes, riders making mistakes, riders going outside their ability window, etc. Some get back up and dust off, some have been picked up in pieces and their next of kin called by a sheriff...

You need to make it a priority. Number 1 if you want to keep riding. Do it for that family you work your ass off for. You can get the days off. Again, quit looking at it as lost wages. $320? That's chicken feed compared to what can/will happen if you keep avoiding it or prolong it... One day or two days is nothing compared to having to take a day off to go to the doctor and do rehab. Or, God forbid you get hurt to the point you need to be off for a week... Employers don't take crashes as excuses for missing work. Had a buddy have a serious crash and missed a month from work. They had to replace him while he was gone. He came back, but guess what? They stuck with the other guy and he got laid off...

I know, hell even an injurieless crash costs alot more than $320

Just saying I respect what you do for working and family. i do. But, I also have seen thousands of guys like yourself from when I worked at the shop to all the years racing and working in the motorcycle industry. It's just something that can be resolved and easily a way to get educated...

Bolds

[Exarch]

you do on an incline when taking off

I dont use mine on inclines, I just use clutch control when I let off the front break on inclines. Dunno how wise that is, but thats how ive been doing it. It just fells akwards taking off without both feet dangling

[Exarch]

what's all this discussion of the CBR being so much heavier than the EX250?

Internet says the 2009 EX250 is 374 wet, and, the CBR (2009) is around 427.

50 lbs. is certainly significant, but differences in rider weight could easily make it negligible.

Im kind of confused, stupid question here. what does wet/dry/curb weight mean? Wet im assuming is full tank? Dry empty tank? Curb the force on the bike when turning? And whatever other weight terms there are. I see it all the time, but no clue what it actually means.

[Exarch]

learn to use the feel of the clutch and you won't need to Took me a bit to learn but once i did I can't tell you the last time I touched the rear brake

Sometimes thats not easy to do as alot of people(from stories ive heard) confuse FEEL with SOUND and end up stalling cuz.they.can not hear.their bike(or even cage in some cases) especially when someone with a loud exhaust or blasting radio is right next to you.

[mello dude]

Im kind of confused, stupid question here. what does wet/dry/curb weight mean? Wet im assuming is full tank? Dry empty tank? Curb the force on the bike when turning? And whatever other weight terms there are. I see it all the time, but no clue what it actually means.

Wet? Full tank and all fluids

Dry? Bone dry as in on whats the weight on the mfgr CAD model.

Another suggestion, if you got a buddy with a dirt bike, see if you can get some seat time on that.

Good luck

[Exarch]

Wet? Full tank and all fluids

Dry? Bone dry as in on whats the weight on the mfgr CAD model.

Another suggestion, if you got a buddy with a dirt bike, see if you can get some seat time on that.

Good luck

Thats what I thought. ive never really road a dirt bike, but my cousins has some beastly ass dirt bike. Not sure what it is, but that bitch is TOUCHY too easy to pop the front wheel. Its a 03 Honda cr250?? I think.thats right but not sure. Thing only weighs like 200lb, I road it up and down the.street and popped the wheel in every gear, got off it and dont plan on getting back on that thing again I know it was my fault too cuz I cranked the throttle while up shfting, but I was pretty easy with it in 1st gear(but let off the clutch kinda quick) now if I was in an open field I probably woulda road the shit outta it.

[madcat6183]

I honestly cannot believe this thread made it to 5 pages, actually I can't believe it's still alive either. I mean people wad bikes up every single weekend at the track, on the road, etc.

Like stated, experience is what was lacking here, this will solve whatever the issue was with going down. In essence, had you showed up for a ride I was out on and you told me you had like 250 miles total, and we were going to hocking or anywhere like the pic that was posted, I would have politely told you to go home or go practice.

[abdecal]

Sometimes thats not easy to do as alot of people(from stories ive heard) confuse FEEL with SOUND and end up stalling cuz.they.can not hear.their bike(or even cage in some cases) especially when someone with a loud exhaust or blasting radio is right next to you.

Feel

[VanDy]

Didn't read the whole thing so if it's a repost , well too bad!

Twist of the wrist 2, book and DVD...

-VanDy

[Exarch]

I honestly cannot believe this thread made it to 5 pages, actually I can't believe it's still alive either. I mean people wad bikes up every single weekend at the track, on the road, etc.

Like stated, experience is what was lacking here, this will solve whatever the issue was with going down. In essence, had you showed up for a ride I was out on and you told me you had like 250 miles total, and we were going to hocking or anywhere like the pic that was posted, I would have politely told you to go home or go practice.

250 prior to buying and about 600 total b4 the wreck. Shit happens though, no real dmg was done(thankfully) and it was a learning experience(an ugly one, but still a learning experience) I dont regret it one bit either, im the kind of person that can dust myself off and try again. the best experience is practice and learning from your mistakes so you dont make them again now have I learned my lesson? I will never know till im in that situation again, but I just need keep trying and practicing till I get it right every time. And once I get it down I just need to remember not to be overconfident, but also to trust the bikes.ability to do what its meant to do(which I didnt do in this case)

[Exarch]

Feel

[snot]

learn to use the feel of the clutch and you won't need to Took me a bit to learn but once i did I can't tell you the last time I touched the rear brake

Only use it when I am waiting a bit.

[Exarch]

Didn't read the whole thing so if it's a repost , well too bad!

Twist of the wrist 2, book and DVD...

-VanDy

watched the vid, plan on watching it again and idk how to read

[VanDy]

Really stupid question for you exarch..., how do you steer into a corner? I mean what forces do you put into the handle bars?

-VanDy

[VanDy]

Just wondering if you tried to turn the handle bars left through the corner because you thought you were going slow enough or something, and counter steering took over?????

-VanDy

[Exarch]

Really stupid question for you exarch..., how do you steer into a corner? I mean what forces do you put into the handle bars?

-VanDy

I just lean my body(which puts pressure on the bar from what ive seen from videos) I dont physically push on the bar or turn the bar at all. The only time I even use the bar itself is when I turn it slightly to make a u turn.

I am aware in reality though that im pusing on the bar(without thinking about or noticing it) I believe it was twist.of the wrist.2 that shows the body shift method with and without a bar lock.