1st BAD Open Carry experience

[crb]

But they also post it. If you don't want OC post it. If you plan to ask OC'ers to leave you should be up front and post it. So you would rather make a scene asking an OCer to leave?

Asking a customer to leave for any reason could upset all customers.

Edited May 8, 2012 by crb

[CoolWhip]

It is ridiculous to say that all OCers are "attention whores." There are also more of us than you think. I generally do not OC. There are situations when I will. 1) When I am backpacking. There are rarely other people around and CC is uncomfortable and unnecessary. 2) When I am out working on the farm (mine or others). This is for the same reasons above. Furthermore, if I go out to eat or run an errand while doing so, I am not going to change just to cover my gun. 3) If I just felt like exercising my Second Amendment rights, I would. Just because other people may not understand guns or they fear them, doesn't mean that we should hindered from exercising our rights.

[Scruit]

Do you really think a common thug criminal is going to try and disarm someone that is open carrying? I think more likely the criminal will find an easier target and if not I guess we find out who is the better shot. The common thug criminal wants an easy target.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx_YUO4SzcY

YES.

[Tpoppa]

But they also post it. If you don't want OC post it. If you plan to ask OC'ers to leave you should be up front and post it. So you would rather make a scene asking an OCer to leave?

Asking a customer to leave for any reason could upset all customers.

After 4 years and thousands of customers it has never come up.

Oh, and I have thrown out people for other reasons.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Tpoppa

[Scruit]

If you *do* OC then might I recommend a good holster with positive retention. Be trained in retention techniques.

I personally don't want people to know, so I keep it on the quiet and like it that way.

[MidgetTodd]

As a reference, Fin Feather and Fur (Cleveland) has a sign stating that all guns must be checked at the door, the only exception is CCW. Meaning that even in a big gun shop full of gun loving customers, they don't want OC.

Vances, Buckeye, Cabelas, OVTC all the same as well. Conceal or don't carry.

If I owned a business it would be the same too, Conceal or don't carry.

[MidgetTodd]

YES.

awesome.

[MidgetTodd]

It is ridiculous to say that all OCers are "attention whores." There are also more of us than you think. I generally do not OC. There are situations when I will. 1) When I am backpacking. There are rarely other people around and CC is uncomfortable and unnecessary. 2) When I am out working on the farm (mine or others). This is for the same reasons above. Furthermore, if I go out to eat or run an errand while doing so, I am not going to change just to cover my gun. 3) If I just felt like exercising my Second Amendment rights, I would. Just because other people may not understand guns or they fear them, doesn't mean that we should hindered from exercising our rights.

So completely off point. Not even close to what we are talking about, sit back down.

[chevysoldier]

Why is he going to try to steal your wife's jewelry when he could steal your gun instead?

You don't think your gun is something a criminal wants? Your making a lot of assumptions when you think that a criminal is going to avoid you just because you've got a gun on your hip. You don't have 360 degrees of vision, something tells me that if a criminal wants your gun he's going to have a go and take it. If you didn't have it open and visible they'd never know you had one. Good luck.

I know from experience, most criminals want an easy score. They don't want to risk their life if they can get what they want from someone they perceive as weaker. Yes, there will be those on drugs or desperate enough or dumb enough that want a carriers gun. And they may try to take it, but most will stay away.

I want as many people as possible to spend as much money as possible at my facility. That is the bottom line for most if not all businesses.

As mentioned above, I would be willing to risk losing your business. Since, .00001% of people ever OC, I would be willing to risk losing all OC as customers. That is barely a rounding error on a cash flow statement.

No, I don't post no OC, and here is why:

1) I wouldn't want to risk pissing off CCW advocates, since there are a lot of them. Even though most CCW won't ever OC, they would probably only see a gun in a red circle on the sign and not read the rest.

2) I wouldn't want to risk pissing off gun owners, since many people own guns.

3) I wouldn't want my entire customer base to see a sign and wonder if there were problems with people displaying guns at my facility.

As a reference, Fin Feather and Fur (Cleveland) has a sign stating that all guns must be checked at the door, the only exception is CCW. Meaning that even in a big gun shop full of gun loving customers, they don't want OC.

IIRC correctly the signs usually state something to the effect of "this does not apply to concealed carry permit owners and those carrying legally."

YES.

You found one incident. There are exceptions to every rule. Most criminals don't want resistance. They pick easy targets.

Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw

Vances, Buckeye, Cabelas, OVTC all the same as well. Conceal or don't carry.

If I owned a business it would be the same too, Conceal or don't carry.

Wrong. I've OC'd in Buckeye and Vances. No issues. I've OC'ed in Gander, although they were misinformed on the laws and have had no issues after that.

[crb]

If you *do* OC then might I recommend a good holster with positive retention. Be trained in retention techniques.

I personally don't want people to know, so I keep it on the quiet and like it that way.

I open carry in a quality retention holster thumbreak or blackhawk.

[crb]

Vances, Buckeye, Cabelas, OVTC all the same as well. Conceal or don't carry.

If I owned a business it would be the same too, Conceal or don't carry.

That's fine if a business wants to post NO OC, but post it don't broad side me and ask me to leave. Anounce it to the world that you do not want open carried firearms there. Secondly are you going to allow off duty officers to open carry? How will you know if they are off duty officers?

[crb]

After 4 years and thousands of customers it has never come up.

Oh, and I have thrown out people for other reasons.

I just don't understand your point. You don't want open carry, but you refuse to notify customers with a sign. That makes no sense! Why can't you make your wishes known? Instead you wish to broad side a customer and ask them to leave when they don't even know that you don't want people to open carry. This is bad business!!!

[CoolWhip]

So completely off point. Not even close to what we are talking about, sit back down.

It is completely relevant.

[chevysoldier]

I open carry in a quality retention holster thumbreak or blackhawk.

Blackhawk CQC Level II here, and trained in positive control and retention techniques. I don't carry anything in my right hand either.

[crb]

Blackhawk CQC Level II here, and trained in positive control and retention techniques. I don't carry anything in my right hand either.

Yep, although occasionaly I have a kid on my right side. I usually carry a backup in my left pocket. I usually have a knife or two on me also in case I need to open a box!

[chevysoldier]

Yep, although occasionaly I have a kid on my right side. I usually carry a backup in my left pocket. I usually have a knife or two on me also in case I need to open a box!

My 5 y/o daughter knows to only hold my left hand.

[Tpoppa]

I just don't understand your point. You don't want open carry, but you refuse to notify customers with a sign. That makes no sense! Why can't you make your wishes known? Instead you wish to broad side a customer and ask them to leave when they don't even know that you don't want people to open carry. This is bad business!!!

Have you ever owned and operated a business with a facility frequented by customers? If no, I'm afraid you are not well informed on the subject.

I also do not want my customers carrying running chainsaws, but I am not going to post a sign about it.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Tpoppa

[chevysoldier]

Have you ever owned and operated a business with a facility frequented by customers? If no, I'm afraid you are not well informed on the subject.

Have you ever open carried?

[Tpoppa]

Have you ever open carried?

Yes. While I was a Marine, I frequently open carried in the line of duty.

[chevysoldier]

Yes. While I was a Marine, I frequently open carried in the line of duty.

Not the same thing. Have you open carried as a civilian?

[crb]

Have you ever owned and operated a business with a facility frequented by customers? If no, I'm afraid you are not well informed on the subject.

I also do not want my customers carrying running chainsaws, but I am not going to post a sign about it.

I don't need to own a business to know that if you don't want your customers to use their right on your property then you should post a sign to notify them. If you don't want them to use their 1st amendment right you should post it.

How are you customers supposed to know that you don't want them open carrying per their constitutional right.

[Tpoppa]

Not the same thing. Have you open carried as a civilian?

No. I think it is unecessary for a civilian to OC, and I do not crave attention.

[kiggy74]

Do you really think a common thug criminal is going to try and disarm someone that is open carrying? I think more likely the criminal will find an easier target and if not I guess we find out who is the better shot. The common thug criminal wants an easy target.

I don't know what the definition of "common criminal" is, much less what this person is or isn't thinking, or if they are thinking at all.... that's a big reason they are criminals.

You seem to have this perception that when you open carry you have established some sort of inpenetrible shield around that protects you from all scenarios. I think that at the least you have made your self conspicuous, which creates a greater risk. I guarantee that if you and I were walking side by side through Walmart, you openly carrying and me concealed that nobody is going to notice me. And guess what, I've got a gun too and I have just as much capability of protecting myself as you.

The cons to open carry far outweigh the real and practical benefits, especially when considering that you can avoid almost all the cons by carrying concealed.

[crb]

I think all business owners are attention whores!

[Tpoppa]

I think all business owners are attention whores!

I am not, but my business...that dirty little whore needs all the attention she can get.