r1crusher Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Yes, and that makes no sense to me personally but that's the way it's been for as long as I can remember.I personally like using my suppressed Uzi w/ a Leupold 3-9x40 scope when hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Yep no deer in Ohio but you can in other states. The bolt action doesn't make it tougher unless you miss.that's the point, you take a shot, you either hit or miss, but the animal is alerted, and probably fleeing, you have to manually chamber another round before you get another shot, and the animal has had time to flee.either bolt action, pump action, or lever action, no matter what, you still have another operation taking your concentration away from aiming and firing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1crusher Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 interesting...so no deer with your "hunting rifle" but pretty much anything else it looks like...There's some fine print in there somewhere to backup your case. You just need to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 By the time you reset for a followup shot with either the time it takes to use the bolt is minimal. We aren't shooting at 50 yards here more like 200-300 so no quick second shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 we've been up one side of this topic and down the other... what have we established?it seems not a damn thing...it has prompted me to study a few things, and re-check my understanding on a few others... so I thank you for that... until the next debate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 That you like most don't actually understand what an AR is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) That you like most don't actually understand what an AR isI actually do understand what an AR is... I just don't see any practical application for it for a law abiding citizen... seems it's just a deadly weapon waiting to get into the wrong hands.if you're using it for hunting... right...but chances are it's just a toy to you... so have fun with it, and be more responsible with how you store it than dipshit's mother was. Edited December 20, 2012 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fat2fly Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I actually do understand what an AR is... I just don't see any practical application for it for a law abiding citizen... seems it's just a deadly weapon waiting to get into the wrong hands.if you're using it for hunting... right...but chances are it's just a toy to you... so have fun with it, and be more responsible with how you store it than dipshit's mother was. Or it's a hunting rifle, or a home defense weapon or it's my personal expression of GUARANTEED Second Amendment rights for law abiding citizens.Using your logic Corvettes shouldn't be allowed on the roads. They're too fast for the "average American". Which you don't think you are. So by that logic you should be allowed to own one but everyone else needs to own Yugos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Or it's a hunting rifle, or a home defense weapon or it's my personal expression of GUARANTEED Second Amendment rights for law abiding citizens.Using your logic Corvettes shouldn't be allowed on the roads. They're too fast for the "average American". Which you don't think you are. So by that logic you should be allowed to own one but everyone else needs to own Yugos.Yes, because corvettes are designed with the purpose of killing... Oh wait, no, that's guns... I can see how that might be confusing...Gun =/= Carget over yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fat2fly Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Yes, get over yourself.I'm not the one on the high horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marca Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I actually do understand what an AR is... I just don't see any practical application for it for a law abiding citizen... seems it's just a deadly weapon waiting to get into the wrong hands.The biggest practical application, and the one that drove the founding fathers to recognize the right to keep and bare arms in the 2nd amendment, was to ensure that the government is kept in check. The citizens must retain the means to make sure the government works for the people and not the other way around. Self defense is also a natural right. Hunting is an interesting hobby, but it is not what the 2nd amendment is about.With gun ownership comes responsibility, but we should not have to get permission to exercise a basic right. We should not be denied a right guaranteed by the constitution without formal adjudication in a court of law. You can shop around and get a doctor to say anything.There will always be some criminal misuse of guns, just like anything else. It is unfortunate, but it is a cost of liberty. The alternative of a totalitarian government without the means to escape it is ultimately far worse. If you think that no citizenry armed only with small arms can prevail against a large organized army, go read about Afghanistan. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Yes, because corvettes are designed with the purpose of killing... Oh wait, no, that's guns... I can see how that might be confusing...Gun =/= Carget over yourself.Fucking imbecile. How many times do you need schooled on this?You determine the application of any device, from a knife (originally invented as a weapon), to a baseball bat (clubs originally invented as weapon) to a rock on the ground (perhaps the first weapon ever).It's origins are irrelevant. If I pick up your anus-shaped fleshlight and beat you to death with it, it's a deadly weapon. If I use my AR15 to compete in matches, it's a target rifle.You're a fucking imbecile, puking out anti-gun talking points.Did I mention you're a fucking imbecile?Here is a dedicated, purpose built, designed for one thing and one thing only target rifle:It's also an AR15Let's talk abut nun-chucks. Classified by most people as a weapon. Origins were wheat threshing tools, which were used as weapons when the Chinese were outlawed the use of traditional swords, knives, etc and developed weaponry from sticks, agriculture tools, etc.So, are they now not a weapon because they were not invented to be so? Or, are they a weapon because they have been re-purposed as a weapon?If I thresh grain with them, are they their origins? Or a weapon? How about if I beat a toddler with them? Not a weapon because they are for threshing wheat?It's easy to figure all this out, unless you're a fucking imbecile. Edited December 20, 2012 by swingset 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 So what is the (real world) application of a military designed rifle...Planting corn?No, it has a designed purpose. Sure you can use a block of C4 as play dough, that doesn't make it a practical application...Design intent MEANS something...Yes the first club was "designed" as a weapon, baseball bats are "designed" to propel a baseball as far as possible within the regulations of the game.A knife can be used as a weapon, but it's "designed" for cutting meat or vegetables, fileting a fish or opening boxes... depending upon how it's "designed"You can misuse anything from a pillow to a telephone to kill someone but it wasn't "designed" specifically for the purpose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conn-e-rot Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 interesting...so no deer with your "hunting rifle" but pretty much anything else it looks like...Yep no deer in Ohio but you can in other states. The bolt action doesn't make it tougher unless you miss.This is true unless you are hunting with a damage permit... then almost anything goes some permits allow hunting 24/71501:31-15-08 Deer damage control permits.(A) The chief of the division of wildlife hereby establishes free deer damage control permits. Persons having sustained actual and substantial nursery, orchard, farm crop or other property damage by deer shall apply for a permit, which may be issued according to individual circumstances and need and for such length of time as determined by personnel of the division of wildlife or the chief’s designee. Failure to comply with the provisions set forth in the application for a deer damage control permit shall result in the immediate revocation of the permit and the person violating the provisions will be subject to prosecution under existing laws.(B) It shall be unlawful to sell, barter or trade any part of a deer killed under authority of a deer damage control permit.© It shall be unlawful for any person not listed on a deer damage control permit to aid or assist in the taking or killing of deer.(D) It shall be unlawful to take or attempt to take deer at any time during the closed season, except when taken under the authority of a deer damage control permit. Provided further, it shall be unlawful to take deer at any time other than within the dates listed on the deer damage control permit.(E) It shall be unlawful to dispose of any parts of a deer except as specified on the deer damage control permit.(F) It shall be unlawful to take or attempt to take a deer at any time of the day or night except during the times specifically listed on the deer damage control permit.(G) It shall be lawful to take or attempt to take a deer on a deer damage control permit with any rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver, bow or crossbow and arrow unless otherwise prohibited on the issued permit.(H) All definitions set forth in rule 1501:31-1-02 of the Administrative Code shall apply to this rule.(I) It shall be unlawful to sell, barter, or trade a deer damage control permit obtained under this section.R.C. 119.032 review dates: 06/22/2011 and 06/15/2016Promulgated Under: 119.03Statutory Authority: 1531.08Rule Amplifies: 1531.08Prior Effective Dates: 3/1/73, 6/1/78, 6/1/79, 6/1/84, 7/31/89, 7/15/98, 7/5/00, 01/01/01, 7/19/02, 8/17/07, 07/01/08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conn-e-rot Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 So what is the (real world) application of a military designed rifle...Planting corn?No, it has a designed purpose. Sure you can use a block of C4 as play dough, that doesn't make it a practical application...Design intent MEANS something...Yes the first club was "designed" as a weapon, baseball bats are "designed" to propel a baseball as far as possible within the regulations of the game.A knife can be used as a weapon, but it's "designed" for cutting meat or vegetables, fileting a fish or opening boxes... depending upon how it's "designed"You can misuse anything from a pillow to a telephone to kill someone but it wasn't "designed" specifically for the purpose...a "military" weapon is a tool used by soldiers to carry out their job just like a grocery stock person uses a box cutter to do his/her job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1crusher Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 The biggest practical application, and the one that drove the founding fathers to recognize the right to keep and bare arms in the 2nd amendment, was to ensure that the government is kept in check. The citizens must retain the means to make sure the government works for the people and not the other way around. Self defense is also a natural right. Hunting is an interesting hobby, but it is not what the 2nd amendment is about.With gun ownership comes responsibility, but we should not have to get permission to exercise a basic right. We should not be denied a right guaranteed by the constitution without formal adjudication in a court of law. You can shop around and get a doctor to say anything.There will always be some criminal misuse of guns, just like anything else. It is unfortunate, but it is a cost of liberty. The alternative of a totalitarian government without the means to escape it is ultimately far worse. If you think that no citizenry armed only with small arms can prevail against a large organized army, go read about Afghanistan.I love newbies ( ) who can be articulate and have enough intellectual prowess to make a statement and have it make sense to even a rock.+rep for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 So what is the (real world) application of a military designed rifle...Planting corn?No, it has a designed purpose. Sure you can use a block of C4 as play dough, that doesn't make it a practical application...Design intent MEANS something...Yes the first club was "designed" as a weapon, baseball bats are "designed" to propel a baseball as far as possible within the regulations of the game.A knife can be used as a weapon, but it's "designed" for cutting meat or vegetables, fileting a fish or opening boxes... depending upon how it's "designed"You can misuse anything from a pillow to a telephone to kill someone but it wasn't "designed" specifically for the purpose...Even if I accepted your logic, which is twisted and goofy, we're left with "who fucking cares"??That's all it is, Magz. Who fucking cares if a gun was designed to slaughter babies and old people? If I don't use it for that, then it it's not a weapon. If I use it as a paperweight, it's a paperweight.And, if I use fertilizer to blow up a preschool, then it's weapon.The design doesn't mean anything. The intent doesn't mean anything.It only means something to people like you, because you vilify one object over another, out of fear and hatred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 and be more responsible with how you store it than dipshit's mother was.I almost had to pinch myself as you actually made one statement I agree with. I still don't understand your desire to outlaw guns since it has been proven again and again doing so doesn't reduce any crimes and in some cases increases them. It is like getting rid of all the nuclear weapons. Yes, they are dangerous and were developed with one primary purpose, but that day we need them for defense, deterrence, or maybe to destroy a rogue asteroid. We need to change our society to one that sees using a firearm to commit crimes or kill innocent people as undoable or not worth the risk. Enforcing video game restrictions is a big start. As Lt Col Dave Grossman points out all of these mass murderers played and show signs of addiction to war and criminal based video games.Read this->Stop Teaching Our Kids to KillDave Grossman, Lt. Col. USA (ret.)Author of On Killing, On Combat, Warrior Mindset, and Stop Teaching Our Kids to Killwww.GetBulletProofMind.com****So, the brutal, merciless, savage mass murderer of first-graders in Connecticut was another in a long line of avid video game players who turned their sick fantasy into our tragic reality. Surprised?I train military and law enforcement nation-wide, on the road almost 300 days a year for 15 years. I was an Army Ranger and a West Point Psych Professor. An author of many very successful books on this subject. This is the perspective that I come from...Bottom line: From a military and law enforcement perspective, violent video games are "murder simulators" that train kids to kill. They act just like police and military simulators, providing conditioned responses, killing skills, and desensitization, except they are inflicted on children without the discipline of military and police training.Research on the background of our juvenile mass murderers show they have one thing in common: they ALL dropped out of life and filled their lives with nothing but violent movies and violent video games. The sickest video games and the sickest movies are very very sick indeed. And the sick sick kids who immerse themselves in this "entertainment" are very sick indeed.Jonesboro in the middle school, Columbine in the high school, Virginia Tech in the college, and now this generation gives us Sandy Hook as adults… The Sandy Hook massacre has been building for years. And there is much, much worse yet to come. (They are NOT "shootings" they are massacres ... five died in the "Boston Massacre" which touched off the American Revolution … six murdered in the "St. Valentines Day Massacre" … many times more were murdered in Sandy Hook and we hide the reality from ourselves by calling it a "shooting" … "shooting" is what happens on the range … a "shooter" is the guy who got lucky during deer season! These are brutal mass murderers, committing savage massacres unlike anything seen in human history.)This has all been building up for years. Consider the stats on officers murdered in the line of duty in the US:'08: 42'09: 48'10: 56'11: 72Anyone see a pattern here? Medical technology is holding DOWN the murder rate. The number of murdered cops should be going down every year.These are criminals who practiced killing cops since they were six years old, every day of their lives, playing Grand Theft Auto, and now they are primed to kill cops as adults.If we intentionally tried to raise a generation cocked and primed to kill, we could not have done a better job.The answer? Parents MUST enforce the rating system. They MUST understand the danger. To do that, they must be informed by our media! And the schools must begin to educate their kids! Go to www.TakeTheChallengeNow.net to learn about a school TV-turnoff curriculum pioneered by Stanford Med School and demonstrated to cut school violence and bullying in half!An "M" (mature, 17 and above ONLY) rated game is the same as an "X" rated movie! The people who manufacture the game say so. Their own industry says so! A "T" (teen) rating means no child under 13 should play the game. Period. It is a very tragic, horrendous situation when adults let their children immerse themselves in M rated games! Just like, sex, gambling, porn, alcohol, tobacco, drugs, guns, and automobiles: these are all things that adults must not give to kids!Not all of the kids who play these sick games will become killers, but they will all be desensitized to human death and suffering, intentionally and realistically inflicted by themselves, for their own entertainment…If YOUR child is one who commits a brutal crime, and YOU let them play these sick games, then the blood is on your hands too… (And YOU may well be the first one to die, as with this most recent incident.)This is NOT business as usual in America. Never lose your sense of outrage that every kid in America has to do lock-down drills, practicing "hunkering down and hiding" for when kids come to kill them. Never lose your sense of outrage that all of our cops practice going in our schools and shooting our kids with "active shooter response plans." These things are necessary, they work, they deter violent acts and they can save lives and hold down the body count when it does happen, but they are not normal. This is NOT just another day in America. This is NOT "business as usual" in America… Something is very, very wrong.And it is a world-wide phenomenon! Germany has had two mass murders in their high schools with body counts that beat Columbine. England had a massacre in the kindergarden class in Dunblain Scotland, tragically forecasting Sandy Hook. Canada had the Taber, Alberta school massacre. Finland has had three school massacres. In Norway the killer got on an island and killed all their kids. In China killers are going in the classrooms with knives and gutting and hacking the kids. In Belgium a sicko got in the day care center and hacked 12 babies in the cribs, dressed as the Joker form the Batman movie. (All those European gun laws made THEM real safe, eh?) And we though it wouldn't happen here!? And you think it's over now? The worst is yet to come. We will reap what we sow for a generation to come…. Until we stop teaching our kids to kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 If it were video games there would be way more of this craps. Millions of people play them every day, quit passing blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 If it were video games there would be way more of this craps. Millions of people play them every day, quit passing blame.Since the introduction of these video games these types of crimes have occurred. Read the research, the use of violent video games is part of a mental sickness that includes sleep deprivation, desensitization, and visual training all of which are used by police and military training programs. Outlawing the games is not suggested, it IS suggested that parents enforce the maturity ratings on the video games. So don't worry, their not coming to take your Black opps 4 video game, just asking you to stop playing it with your under 18 yo kid. Not all of the kids who play these sick games will become killers, but they will all be desensitized to human death and suffering, intentionally and realistically inflicted by themselves, for their own entertainment… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Why not just spend the time to explain the difference between a game and reality. I have played violent games since I was probably 10 and I wouldn't say desensitized as I understand what's real and what isn't. Hell the piece you posted said something about one dressed up as the joker from batsman, pretty sure it's pg-13 and a movie not a game. People need to spend time explaining things rather than sitting a kid in front of a tv and letting them watch or play whatever garbage they turn on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Since the introduction of these video games these types of crimes have occurred.Correlation does not equal causation. Not all spree shooters have been gamers, and even those that were there's no evidence of it being a driving stimulus.There was in increase in mass murders and spree shooters happening well before the modern FPS.Give a crazy kid violent video games, or Ozzy albums, or horror movies, or whatever...and it can fuel nasty thoughts. But then, we had psychopaths and violent nutters before there there any of those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fat2fly Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s480x480/481613_386416344779144_1280661517_n.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s480x480/481613_386416344779144_1280661517_n.jpgYeah, but cars weren't designed as weapons.Well, wait, no that's not true. This one was....See, if a car runs you down and the driver meant to do it, you're not even hurt or killed...because only guns designed for offensive murder can actually harm you.And thus, they are special evil...the kind of evil that makes normal people bad people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Why not just spend the time to explain the difference between a game and reality. I have played violent games since I was probably 10 and I wouldn't say desensitized as I understand what's real and what isn't. Hell the piece you posted said something about one dressed up as the joker from batsman, pretty sure it's pg-13 and a movie not a game. People need to spend time explaining things rather than sitting a kid in front of a tv and letting them watch or play whatever garbage they turn on. Obviously it's not every kid or we'd see the end of civilization and YES parents do need to spend more time talking and explaining the reality to some kids. But I dated a woman who had a kid who fits a serious case study subject for the effect of these video games. At 12 he had already been removed for school for death threats and bringing a knife to school where he brandished it to other students. Being he'd already failed a grade he was older and bigger than his school mates. I told her to stop letting him play these games as it was obvious he was addicted to the violence and online play. But she was unable to balance a career with three kids and still be an authority figure. As his temper tantrums became more violent she proved incapable of keeping him from the games and a catalogue of violent films available over her cell phone which he would steal regularly. My time there was more of a distraction for her and I finally had to remove myself from the situation in hopes without me as a safety net she would have to face the situation. Or at least the criminal or childrens service system would have to step in.I will add that society also pitched this kid to the curb, because once expelled from school he could not attend any of the troubled kid schools around Troy because they were full and had long waiting lists from lack of funding and so many kids in serious need of help. So once isolated he turned even further to the video games and became more openly violent. The video games didn't cause the issue, it didn't teach him to behave badly but it sure as hell didn't help either. His favorite games were Modern Combat where he would replay the same scenes over and over finding more brutal ways to accomplish the mission each time. Correlation does not equal causation. Not all spree shooters have been gamers, and even those that were there's no evidence of it being a driving stimulus. Add it up any way you like but the subjection of our youth to ever increasing violence in movies and video games is NOT healthy. Moreover parents like my X who used them as time occupiers in place of actual parenting and responsibility are fueling the issue in my opinion and that of many psychologists.Myth 6. There are no studies linking violent video game play to serious aggression. Facts: High levels of violent video game exposure have been linked to delinquency, fighting at school and during free play periods, and violent criminal behavior (e.g., self-reported assault, robbery).Source: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=pact%20against%20violent%20videos%20games&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CHAQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apa.org%2Fscience%2Fpsa%2Fsb-anderson.html&ei=2sfTUP-7BOjY2gWRuoGIBw&usg=AFQjCNGIHUKn4kYgD36nUaQB72mbQuYRZg&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.b2I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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