This whole thread rubs me the wrong way. 1: The title. If anyone is going to post a "Rules" thread for OR group rides, it should be Casper. Maybe a moderator, but not even then without the friendly ghost's explicit consent. Make the title "My opinions and suggestions for group rides" EDIT: To expand on #1 a little bit. I know a lot of you are good friends with Ben, and thats great. However its been said that this place seems like a small group of friends that have a website. I think threads like this are discouraging and un-welcoming of new members. 2: The OP states: So asking for riding tips on OR is pointless, UNLESS its group riding tips from you? 3. Most everyone in this thread bitching about noobsauce is an experienced rider telling everyone "if you can't keep up slow down". If you're leading a ride, why don't you just slow down? Then you don't have to worry about noobs riding up your arsehole.