rl

EPA tells Ohio: Cut smog Central Ohio drivers among those facing additional costs to meet clean-air rules Central Ohio residents face a future that may include paying for more expensive gas and exhaust checks to help fight smog. Armed with a tougher national standard for ozone, a key ingredient of smog, federal clean-air regulators put areas of Ohio and 30 other states on notice yesterday. States with counties that don’t meet these standards have three years to come up with plans to reduce smog. That means factories and power plants in 33 of Ohio’s 88 counties will have to find new ways to reduce pollution, and unpopular E-Check exhaust tests likely will continue in Cincinnati, Cleveland, Dayton and their suburbs. For the first time, people in Franklin, Delaware, Fairfield, Knox, Licking and Madison counties might be forced to get their cars tested as well. They might also have to pay 3 cents to 5 cents more per gallon for cleaner-burning gas. Ohio Environmental Protection Agency officials won’t say E-Check is coming, but they caution that something will have to be done about car exhaust. Some environmental groups argue something should have been done a lot sooner. Bryan Clark, conservation organizer with the Ohio Sierra Club, said state officials knew years ago which counties were going to fail the new smog standards. He said the U.S. EPA was more than generous to give Ohio and other states another three years to come up with a plan. "People should have been at the table three years ago," Clark said. "The state’s been dragging its feet, and the Bush administration hasn’t been forcing them to do otherwise." Federal EPA officials, however, defend the grace period. "It takes time to implement," said Bharat Mathur, the acting regional administrator for the U.S. EPA in Chicago. "This will require a significant amount of time and cost." Heidi Griesmer, spokeswoman for the Ohio EPA, said her agency could do little until the federal government made its announcement today. She said the state is still waiting for federal cleanup guidelines. "We don’t know when that’s coming out," Griesmer said. Smog is created on hot, still days when sunlight cooks chemicals spewed by cars, power plants and factories. Central Ohio had the most unhealthy air in the nation for two days in June. It was the worst smog the Ohio EPA had seen in 15 years. Smog can damage lung tissue, spur asthma attacks and worsen lung diseases such as emphysema and bronchitis. Still, economic development officials have complained that the new rules will make it harder to grow and attract new businesses. Ty Marsh, president and CEO of the Greater Columbus Chamber of Commerce, said Franklin County’s new smog status will be an "impediment" for attracting certain types of businesses. "We will always continue to tout the strengths of our region," Marsh said. Many politicians would rather not force voters to pay to make their cars run cleaner. E-Check currently costs $19.50 and is required every two years. If cars fail the test, their owners have to pay for the repairs. Cleaner gas would cost $12 to $20 more for every 10,000 miles driven, based on cars that average 25 miles per gallon. State and industry groups have opposed the new standards since 1997. After four years of court battles, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2001 that the U.S. EPA has the authority to create and enforce tougher standards. The list of Ohio counties federal regulators released yesterday is similar to a list the state EPA submitted in a July report. That report asked the U.S. EPA to exclude 10 counties from the new smog standard, including Morrow, Pickaway and Union in central Ohio. The Ohio EPA argued that each of those counties should be excluded because they are mostly rural and produce relatively small amounts of smogcreating chemicals. Amy Elsea, director of the Pickaway County Chamber of Commerce, said that just the prospect of being named to the federal smog list scared away developers looking to build an ethanol plant there. She said plants already there, including those operated by DuPont, Georgia-Pacific and Crane Plastics, also would have been forced to put tighter pollution controls in place. "This is definitely good news for Pickaway County," Elsea said.

Anyone read the dispatch today? http://www.columbusdispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2004/04/16/20040416-A1-00.html I guess I'll be getting collectors tags soon. If they do away with sunoco 94 I'll be pissed. If they raise prices MORE I'll be pissed. I spent $75 already this week on gas, It cant get worse than that.

If I get my wastegate done in time I might show up.

We are going to be there ding some R&D on our escort ZX2 (trying different tunes on a 100% stock car for comparison sake). Anyone else going to be there or would like to go? Rob

http://www.lasotaracing.com/html/images/linkinpark.jpg

How negotiable are you? Got a number I can reach you at?

How negotiable are you? Got a number I can reach you at?

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiit That car had nothing ghetto on it! IGNORE THE DUCT TAPE! and the pedals and the rest of the car

I've never had to so much as open my hood there, whether in the truck, cougar, or low 11 second mustang.

Invite my ex over, she already tried once.

If your pro-m 80mm meter is cal'd for 42# injectors you are going to peg the crap out of it with 18psi...

I'd like to think that we have just a little tuning experience. We've done around 50 mailorderchips and dynotunes in just last 2 months, mostly modular stuff (some pretty wild modular stuff at that) without any complaints. We've been in business since September (we're like the 3rd SCT dealer/tuner). We're almost always booked 2 weeks in advance. Be wary of autologic dealers (pauls in cincy). With 4 bank cars they only have access to 2 banks which leads to some interesting tunes (rev limiter issues, fueling issues if you have larger injectors, loading issues leading to incorrect timing, generally bad stuff) I'm good friends with Ken and the other guys who own Modular depot (the place that purchased Apten)They are good...Though I don't think they have got their dyno in yet (they have only had their shop for a few weeks). Rob [ 02. April 2004, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: rl ]

The one in the back looks good, the one in the front looks like ass and would probably flow about the same as it looks. I'd try and make a 3->2 merge collector.

Heat and a vice would easily oval the tubing like that, just message it into place. I'd try and do something a little different than that manifold...

Why do they show leaner? Water displaces air, doesnt combust, and the same amount of fuel is being injected....Please explain, I would love to hear why you think that. If you can intercool than intercool, it works better. We have I dont know how many hours of logging AFR and ACT's vs. WI, 50/50, straight Alchy etc with all kinds of different volumes...For us, water always has cooled the best.

It could be that it has 220k+ miles and has been beaten to hell and back by 3 different people, but thats just a geuss...

Ohhh, its on a procharger car, I thought it was on a vortech car. Nope, I dont sell replacements, IPS motorsports however does, see renners sig.

Thats why its called a bypass valve, its meant to bypass air under vacuum. With supercharger applications it keeps pressure from building up between the throttle body and compressor (like your car). Route that thing back so that its dumping air after the air meter before the blower. Dumping the bypass to the atmosphere on your car will do a lot of very bad things. (Renner I need to get ahold of you...I need porsche help)

That is exactly the point. That is exactly how the inline pump increases the capacity of the system. That is exactly what I have stated over and over and over again. smile.gif

Its a pressurized system! The pumps are rated at 255lph@ XXpsi. At LOWER PSI they flow MORE. When you REDUCE the pressure drop accross the pump (or the PSI it is having to push) then the flow INCREASES. When you add an inline pump you make the pressure BOTH pumps have to push against LESS so BOTH pumps can flow MORE. THAT is how it INCREASES the OVERALL flow of the system. Just think about it for a minute, if pressure is dropping it is because at that pressure the intank pump cant produce enough VOLUME (flow). When you add the inline pump and pressure goes back UP then you have INCREASED the VOLUME (flow) that the system is moving. This is moving more VOLUME (flow) than just the intank pump could thus the inline pump has increased the overall VOLUME (flow) of the system. smile.gif

Thats what you guys are not understanding. Both pumps flow more because they BOTH have to work less, inceasing the volume that the SYSTEM can move, thats what my math shows, thats what it says in the link. Of course you cannot just add the flow of the pumps together, that doesnt work. My math is the CORRECT way to calculate the NEW flow for 2 pumps (note that it IS higher than the SINGLE pump, thus the inline pump INCREASES flow) Exactly, the inline pump INCREASES the flow of the system by reducing the pressure drop across both pumps. At less pressure both pumps can move more volume. The amount of fuel at XXpsi that the system can move with one pump is INCREASED when the inline pump is added. That is correct, that is why system volume at XXpsi is INCREASED with an inline pump. They both flow more at less pressure. Thats been my point from the very beginning. The FPR regulates pressure, NOT the pump. If the pump cant supply enough volume of fuel to the regulator to allow it to restrict the rail pressure to XXpsi then pressure drops. The only way to increase that pressure is to increase the volume. How do you do that? With an inline pump. Its a possibility smile.gif I agree, however I dont see any dick swinging going on. It stayed 100% technical, just trying to get a point across which I happen to know a great deal about. Note that the new total flow for the system is much higher than it would be with just the in-tank pump. smile.gif

An inline pump will be the CORRECT fix for your problem provided you are losing fuel pressure, period. A walbro inline 255lph pump is THE best option. Jegs sells one under the holly name brand, go in and ask for a walbro 255lph inline pump.

You are right in the first part of what you said. I ALREADY stated ALL of that. The only thing you have wrong is more load = less vacuum. As the motor becomes more volumetrically eff. the vacuum drops. And they dont do the FP because of the way the ECU is programmed, its basic physics of the system. If there is vacuum at the head of the injector it needs that much less pressure to flow the same as it would with 0psi and normal rated fuel pressure. Same with boost, with 10psi at the head of the injector it needs 10psi more fuel pressure to maintain the base drop. The inline pump DOES increase the overall flow of the system otherwise fuel pressure would STILL drop with the inline pump. If fuel pressure is dropping its because the single pump cannot keep enough volume of fuel going to the regulator for it to maintain pressure. The second pump increases that VOLUME which allows the system to maintain pressure. I PROMISE you that the formulas that I used are 100% correct. That's how you calculate the total flow of 2 pumps inline to each other. The flow of the system does increase. You even said it yourself, Just toss the "higher" and you're there. Higher pressures, like Chris is seeing (his stock regulator WILL raise fuel pressure on a 1:1 ratio with boost to maintain the 45psi pressure drop across the injectors, just like every other regulator) so he is seeing 63psi of fuel pressure. His 255lph pump is effectively a 200lph pump at that pressure. Adding an inline pump INCREASES the capacity of the system and allows him to maintain pressure that that volume because the pressure drop across each pump is less and they can both flow more. Same thing with a car running 40psi of fuel pressure and no boost. If you are making more power than the pump can support and FP is dropping off its because the pump cannot meet the required volume at that 40psi. Adding an inline pump will create enough volume to maintain pressure at that power level (because the pressure drop across both of the pumps is smaller and thus BOTH pumps CAN and WILL flow more thus INCREASING the CAPACITY of the fuel system) That's what the calculations I posted showed. Ohh, and for fun, FMU in general = the wrong way.

Have you even been reading the thread? What we have been saying makes perfect sense, and not only that but it is the WAY IT WORKS. What you are saying is not logical in the least. Do you understand how a return style fuel system works? Please explain to me in detail how you think a in-line fuel pump simply raises pressure on a return style fuel system without outflowing the regulator or return line.

It flows more AT PRESSURE. Its a PRESSURE SYSTEM. 2 pumps with 20psi pressure drop WILL flow more than 1 pump with a 40psi pressure drop! My calculations are NOT incorrect. Its all about being able to move fluid at high volumes UNDER PRESSURE. He is running 63psi of fuel pressure, that means his ONE pump has a pressure drop of 63psi accross it! Your telling me that 2 pumps, with less of a pressure drop, at the same rail pressure are going to NOT flow more, but RAISE the pressure? Thats horribly incorrect! The ONLY way the inline pump will RAISE the pressure is if there is a RESTRICTION after the rail (ei the regulator and return lines) and it doesnt allow enough fuel to return to the tanks. What adding an inline pump will do is allow him to maintain his 63psi rail pressure while still moving the volume needed (because the first pump will have less of a pressure drop across it as will the second). If he is losing fuel pressure its because at 63psi his walbro pump cant move enough volume. Adding an inline pump WILL fix this, period. I think YOU are looking at it wrong. a high pressure pump is rated to flow more at a higher pressure drop (ie 60psi instead of industry standard 42). The link I posted was writting by a man who was a Ford/roush powertrain engineer for 20 years and has tuned over 3,000 cars in the last 2 years. His calculations are wrong as well? (because they are the exact same thing I posted). smile.gif NO! IF it was a RETURNLESS FUEL SYSTEM then you would be correct but its not, fuel flow is the AMOUNT OF FUEL PUMPED TO THE RAIL, the EXCESS (that is not used by the injectors) is returned to the tank, the pressure is a direct function of the FPR, NOT the fuel pumps on a RETURN system (unless you run OUT of pump like chris is, then pressure DROPS). The FPR restricts the return line to maintain constant fuel pressure. The ONLY way pressure will RISE because of the pump on a RETURN style system is if there is a RESTRICTION in the return (it outflows the FPR or return line). [ 18. February 2004, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: rl ]