DB_ZX10r Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Just a quick question about Mid-Ohio..... How are the beginner/novice and intermediate groups set up?? Are they more like STT or NESBA? Or are they completely different?? Thanks in advance!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Like stt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 If you've not done many track days let one of us that are part of MidO place you in a group too please. Fast on the street is rarely fast on the track. No shame in signing up in Novice and being bumped up. Lots of shame and ridicule for signing up in Advanced and having your ass handed to you then being knocked down to Novice after your bike clears tech after being stuffed in a corner. That being said, welcome and see you at the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Like stt I would dare say that they "copied" STT's format after STT was the only org running at Mid-Ohio for multiple years. That said, "Intermediate" is a WIIIIIIIDDDDEEEE range of skill because of the somewhat restrictive Novice curriculum. Last time I was at Mid-Ohio was a couple of years ago, but I registered in Intermediate. There were AMA riders doing testing, and at least three privateers (that I was aware of) who were seeing if they could make the grid for the upcoming round. I was pleased with my decision to register in Intermediate, based on the speed of the Advanced group. That said, other intermediate riders were accusing me of "slumming it" in Intermediate. My times were a good 5 seconds off what I would have deemed appropriate for Advanced group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Being able to hold you line, be consistent, predictable and not get spooked when passed in a turn are as important if not more important than your lap times when running I or A. IMHO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owndjoo Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Todd nailed it. Throw the lap times out the window. Experience and consistency are the important things. Being able to lap at a comfortable pace that is consistent in line choice and being comfortable with passing and being passed at different rates. It's def not racing in advance, no matter what some people think. The biggest thing is the faster riders being able to predict what you are going to do so they can plan a safe clean overtake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB_ZX10r Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Thanks for the info guys...... if I'm reading you guys correctly Mid-O is more like STT where they have small sub-groups within the beginner's group and play follow the leader most of the moring and then usually open the track up after lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 You got it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB_ZX10r Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Thanks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Throw the lap times out the window. I get that lap times are not THE most important thing, but when Corey West is there turning 1:29's, I think the Advanced riders (on 600's or larger) should be able to break 1:40, or be consistently close to that time. Yes, he (the AMA pro) is coming into OUR world (the track day), and it's his responsibility to adapt his riding and expectations to maintain a safe environment for all, but I think it's a fallacy to say that lap times don't matter. Part of being consistent is being consistently quick. Edited February 12, 2014 by redkow97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think the Advanced riders (on 600's or larger) should be able to break 1:40, or be consistently close to that time. I doubt that, the slower A riders are usually 1:45-1:48s on a 600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiztedRabbit Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Agree with craig.. I ride mid 1:41s there best time ever a 1:40.7 and I'm and just fine in advanced many more people slower and many faster it's all about consistency. . And predictable smart line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owndjoo Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I get that lap times are not THE most important thing, but when Corey West is there turning 1:29's, I think the Advanced riders (on 600's or larger) should be able to break 1:40, or be consistently close to that time. Yes, he (the AMA pro) is coming into OUR world (the track day), and it's his responsibility to adapt his riding and expectations to maintain a safe environment for all, but I think it's a fallacy to say that lap times don't matter. Part of being consistent is being consistently quick. Yes, it is not an AMA testing event, it is a trackday that he was using for some extra setup time. The key is he and the other guys were able to run those times and be able to avoid the traffic. I prefer the time when we gave the AMA guys a separate session. It was I,A,and AMA. I instructed and then went out and ran with the AMA guys sans vest. The big thing with the times in Advanced is the wide array of equipment as well. Motards, SV's, 250's, etc. Race pace on an sv at mid-o hovers in the low 1:4x to higher 1:3x depending on who's pushing. So to say you must run a 1:4x at a trackday wouldn't be right. I'd prefer to have people running 1.50 and faster personally, but it really is easier to just be able to watch people's lines and see if they are advanced in their skills on the track and bumping based on that. Sure some guys could crank some fast laps, but if they aren't in control to do so then that doesn't matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 If you run a consistant 1:38 there every lap but use the whole fucking track to do it and it's a crap shoot on if you'll be high or low in the corner as opposed to a guy running a 1:42-1:50but always in the groove and and always holding a good apex and carrying it thru the corner...... I'd rather have that guy running a good line but 8 seconds slower in the group than the unpredictable faster guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiztedRabbit Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 We get the same thing when i CR at putnam.. people whine saying well I'm faster than so and so by blank seconds.. and have to tell them it's not the time it's the consistency. . It the good lines your predictability. And let's go work on it.. sure ya ran a 1:xx once but can you do it all the time with the same lines? Or slow yourself down get smooth and it will come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I doubt that, the slower A riders are usually 1:45-1:48s on a 600. Then I guess the "I" guys were right to complain about me... I asked Monger what a "good" lap time was, and he said "1:25," (which I believe is what Spies had turned the last time he was there) and then grinned at me. I believe I was in the 1:41 range at that point. I would have moved up if I was breaking 1:40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Intermediate is filled with sketchy riders. I'd rather be in group 1 novice, honestly. I just about shit myself on a few occasions at Mid-Ohio with STT. The number of people that shouldn't have been out there was alarming.Maybe it was just me, but it seemed like it was filled with A-group guys sandbagging, or Novice-group guys that should have still been in Novice. I'm not a great rider, but I know what 4-6 foot passes look like. Plus, getting passed by some chode on a 1098 after the keyhole and then having to cram my brakes in six to avoid hitting his $20k piece of shit was unnerving. I didn't do well in Intermediate. Happened more than once and I haven't been on a track since. Those duc riders are real assholes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnone Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Intermediate is the wost group to be in. Stay away. Ride advanced/expert or novice. If forced into I group, give the doucebags plenty of clearance. A good way to do this is to go slow in the straights and let then go clear. Duc riders suck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Clay Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 A year ago I rode a twilight trackday at Mid-O in "I" group on a motard, it was my first trackday in 17years and I thought i'd get smoked in I group but still managed to hang ahead of mid-pack riders.....but after reading these post on rules of engagement on passing i thought I'd better apologize to my fellow Ohio riders because i know that i was closer than 4-6 ft rule states but coming from WERA superbike and BOTT I felt comfortable to being that close to most riders in "I" group ....... i was never told about the 4-6ft rule all that was said was to make clean passes on the outside, so my bad if i offended or pissed anyone off that wasn't my intentions and the same applies to the Indy STT group when i rode with them. I could be wrong but i don't remember once in any riders meetings hearing this 4-6ft rule........only time I heard anything about the passing rule was when the race director calls me out in a riders race meeting on Sunday about what I've done 2 months ago during a trackday???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Clay Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 To clearify, the STT Putnam trackday that I was referring to was run by Motoseries I believe..........I'm sure a few on here were present in that meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 To clearify, the STT Putnam trackday that I was referring to was run by Motoseries I believe..........I'm sure a few on here were present in that meeting.That was a motoseries and indy ducati weekend, nothing to do with stt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Clay Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Ok, Just stating I'm not use to the 3ft rule/ arm reach away distance.......honest I'll try to readjust to the rules this season, I just wish someone would of said something to me before calling me out in a rider race meeting about what I've done 2 months ago and I'm sure someone told MS race director that I was too close at Putnam then the gangbang started about what I did at the last 3 trackdays, instead of coming up to me and saying "hey give those guys a little more room".....I know for a fact I never cut or stuffed anyone nor caused anyone to crash, just BS that not 1 CR came to me or race director said anything to me until I was told what I've done for the last 2 months was all uncalled for.........Hello Mcfly??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 i can understand that being annoying. the whole "6 foot" rule is crazy unrealistic though. I always try to give people a wide birth when I pass, but I can't control what THEY do. If I go around the outside, and then they drift wider than I thought they would, the 6' I gave them quickly turns into 3' Really, I think the safest way to pass someone is "as quickly as possible." I don't throw inside passes on people unless I am in Advanced, and I'm confident they won't tighten up their line (i.e. I've observed them for a lap or two), but making a pass deliberately is one of the more important things. a half-assed pass is one that may not happen at all, and then you've put yourself and the other rider in a situation where you both have to adjust your plan at the last second. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owndjoo Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 usually in intermediate stuff I always stick to passing on the straights or under braking. I'm obviously just cruising around helping people in intermediate, so I know that I can always just zip by on a straight or if it's someone on a literbike i'll blow by on the gas while they are braking. albeit giving plenty of space so I don't spook or "buzz" the person. But personally I try not to pass in the turns in that group unless there is a gaping hole that I can easily slide through without spooking the rider. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Clay Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I didn't mean to spook/buzz anyone but I'm probably guilty of it........ just such a wide range of riders skills levels in "I" and I try not to piss anyone off but when you ride a slow bike like mine your not going to pass many on the straights, so the corners is the only place I can pass and I think that's why I get looked at more because if I had the power I'd wait to get around them on the straight but I don't have the gift of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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