New GM rear-wheel-drive vehicles on hold

[Rally Pat]

sad thing is he is a "senior member"...

 

You are only 3 years older than me. Guess that makes you being a senior member a sad thing too. Guess life just sucks, why don't we cut ourselves like the emo generation we are?

 

Anyway, getting past the molasses-density ego's in this thread, some famous inventor once said that "we need to stop making new technologies, and use the existing technologies in new ways". We have a bunch of new space aged materials now, why dont we make lighter rotating masses using that? I know carbon fiber drive shafts are in now-a-days.

[98fiveseven1647545503]

You are only 3 years older than me. Guess that makes you being a senior member a sad thing too. Guess life just sucks, why don't we cut ourselves like the emo generation we are?

 

Anyway, getting past the molasses-density ego's in this thread, some famous inventor once said that "we need to stop making new technologies, and use the existing technologies in new ways". We have a bunch of new space aged materials now, why dont we make lighter rotating masses using that? I know carbon fiber drive shafts are in now-a-days.

has not a thing to do with age. just some of the things that has typed itself out on your keyboard thats all. no ego here.

[Science Abuse]

But hey, I've got a great business idea Eric. Let's say I have a product that sells very well for the market it is in (H2 and H3). I make great profits with it, and people demand it. But since it is hurting my average fuel economy ratings, I need to get rid of them to build far less profitable cars that aren't in as big of demand for their market.

You need to recognize a difference here. In simple terms, we'll call it:

Bread and butter

Flash

 

The H2 and H3 are both flash. They sell most of those that they make...but that aint alot. To continue making those instead of attacking Camry and Accord is suicide. They need to restructure. Flash sales of Vettes and Hummers wont support GM.

 

Anyway, getting past the molasses-density ego's in this thread, some famous inventor once said that "we need to stop making new technologies, and use the existing technologies in new ways". We have a bunch of new space aged materials now, why dont we make lighter rotating masses using that? I know carbon fiber drive shafts are in now-a-days.

Show me a sub 2 liter pushrod engine that makes 1000hp on gasoline without boost...ya can't. Should I even mention that they make that power for hours and hours at a time?

http://images.automotive.com/cob/factory_automotive/images/Features/auto_shows/2006_LAAS/_Ferrari_F1%20Engine__front.jpg

 

There are pushrod engines that make more HP per liter, but not NA and only for 5 seconds at a time... not on gasoline.

 

GM needs to loose it's pushrods.

"use the existing technologies in new ways" I agree, OHC engines have been around for half a century, GM needs to catch on.

 

Blah Blah My LS1 Blah. You cannot argue that OHCs aren't more efficient.

[caseyctsv]

THE CARS ARE NOT EXPENSIVE BECAUSE OF THEIR MOTORS. You pay more for the car, and you get ALOT more car for the money.

 

You cannot be serious. While it is true that there is a lot more to the car than the motor they can get away with expensive technology and materials in the drivetrain when you are talking a 65K+ car. Isn't the A8 all aluminum as well? GMs cars are just fine on gas mileage. They are competitive or better in every class. You can pick on their build quality, cheap plastics, poor design, and "ancient pushrod tech", but not on their fuel efficiency. GM's CAFE numbers are being dragged down by all of their trucks and SUVs, something Audi and BMW do not have to deal with. The only area I see GM lacking is in diesel technology. The Duramax in GMs trucks shows they are capable but they have not yet transferred this technology to cars.

[Jeffrey]

sad thing is he is a "senior member"...

 

Even worse is there about 500 others just like him on this board.

[Rally Pat]

Even worse is there about 500 others just like him on this board.

 

What is your fucking problem? Quit acting like a gigantic asshole. If you have a fucking problem with me, I am on AIM. You are the most immature person to post in a long while.

[Jeffrey]

Nope just speaking my mind, that is aloud here is it not?

[Science Abuse]

Nope just speaking my mind, that is aloud here is it not?

No. You must only speak in "OMGS" an your only requests must be for "bewbies" or "buttseks".

[Devils Advocate]

screw the government and their stupid liberal asses

 

You're an idiot.

[Nitrousbird]

Show me a sub 2 liter pushrod engine that makes 1000hp on gasoline without boost...ya can't. Should I even mention that they make that power for hours and hours at a time?

http://images.automotive.com/cob/factory_automotive/images/Features/auto_shows/2006_LAAS/_Ferrari_F1%20Engine__front.jpg

 

There are pushrod engines that make more HP per liter, but not NA and only for 5 seconds at a time... not on gasoline.

 

GM needs to loose it's pushrods.

"use the existing technologies in new ways" I agree, OHC engines have been around for half a century, GM needs to catch on.

 

Blah Blah My LS1 Blah. You cannot argue that OHCs aren't more efficient.

And I could give two shits about the displacement of the motor.

 

Want an example?? A 7L LS7 is externally SMALLER than a 4.6L DOHC Ford Mod motor? And ya know what, if it makes more power and gets better fuel mileage, does it really matter how much displacement it has?? It could be 20.5L, but who cares if the packaging is still smaller. Look a the packaging size of that 2L motor you are touting.

 

GM does offer OHC I4, V6's, and V8's. The DTS, STS, and XLR all use OHC motors. I don't think any of GM's current I4 motors are pushrod anymore. As for V6's, I think the only pushrod motor left is the tried and true 3.8L (in N/A and Supercharged for of course). The 2.8, 3.5, 3.9, and 3.6L V6's are all OHC motors.

 

So as far as GM's cars are concerned, the following are pushrod motors:

3.8L V6

LSx based V8 motors. Which have been proven to do very well in fuel mileage.

 

That's it. Where are all the rest??

 

As for the car-size classes, yell at the EPA, not me. I copied it straight from their information...I'm not making the stuff up. You seem to think it is fair to compare these German cars costing 3-4x as much (but none of that extra cost is in the drivetrain, lol). The simple fact is their mileage isn't bad at all. If you killed off GM's truck division, they would be easily beating out all of the regulations.

 

Obviously BMW, Benz, Audi, VW, etc. don't deal with that, as they aren't in the truck market. Their SUV's don't sell in as high of a percentage, and aren't designed for towing/hauling like the domestic trucks are.

 

Sure, Toyota and Nissan offer a decent 1/2 ton truck, but it doesn't sell in nearly the volumes of the domestic trucks. It you want to do some real towing, domestic is your only choice. If you want a real work van, again, the imports have nothing for you.

 

It's simple: domestics have a much bigger offering of large trucks/SUV's, and these kinds of vehicles are in demand, which is why they are the bread and butter of the domestic makers. If the imports offered and sold in high percentages the same things, they would be having the same issues. Eric, just because YOU don't like big SUV's doesn't mean no one else should be allowed to have them.

 

Besides, I don't see Audi, BMW, etc. offering anything that's going to tow my car to the track, and would be way too expensive if they did. So I guess my gas hog Avalanche will do just peachy.

[Devils Advocate]

Are jackasses seriously trying to use being a senior member as grounds for talking shit to somebody? BEING A SENIOR MEMBER DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING, YOU DOLTS! THORNE IS A SENIOR MEMBER! Seriously, that kid didn't even do or say anything that warrants shit talk, and you insecure idiots are all over him. OHNOEZ! HE SUGGESTED AN ENVIRONMENTALLY SOUND SOLUTION, WHICH HAS BOTH BENEFITS AND PROBLEMS! LETS PERSECUTE HIM FOR BEING YOUNG!1!!!111111!11

 

 

On topic: GM sucks. Stop whining, build cars better and less ugly.

[MrMeanGreen]

My car > Vee Hax's car. True story.

 

You fags honestly have nothing better to do than bash cars then each other? Go do something constructive.

[Mr. Jones]

THE CARS ARE NOT EXPENSIVE BECAUSE OF THEIR MOTORS. You pay more for the car, and you get ALOT more car for the money.

 

You cannot be serious. While it is true that there is a lot more to the car than the motor they can get away with expensive technology and materials in the drivetrain when you are talking a 65K+ car. Isn't the A8 all aluminum as well? GMs cars are just fine on gas mileage. They are competitive or better in every class. You can pick on their build quality, cheap plastics, poor design, and "ancient pushrod tech", but not on their fuel efficiency. GM's CAFE numbers are being dragged down by all of their trucks and SUVs, something Audi and BMW do not have to deal with. The only area I see GM lacking is in diesel technology. The Duramax in GMs trucks shows they are capable but they have not yet transferred this technology to cars.

 

 

Its not Audi nor BMW's fault that GM is mentally retarded and wants to sell the 12mpg SUV's to everyone in an attempt to make a few bucks.

 

Both Audi & BMW Offer SUV's..

 

BMW X3 = 26mpg and can even be had with a 6spd manual.

Audi Q7 Gas = 23mpg Highway at over 5000lbs

Audi Q7 Diesel= 28-30mpg COMBINED

 

Dont' forget the Q7 V12 Diesel 0-60 in 5.5 and 20+MPG

[SPLN SUX]

Heres a technology that american cars dont have....

 

DOORS THAT WEIGHT LESS THAN 50LBS! Ever close a door on a GM car and here how loud it is? Or park on a hill and have to hold your door open to get out and run away real fast so it doesnt slam on you? The BMW/AUDI/MERCEDES/VOLVO/VWs dont do that.. the doors are light, they stay open untill you close them, and when they close, they do it quitely. Whats so hard about make a door thats lighter than 50lbs and is less than 5ft from hinge to lock?

[Guest 614Streets]

I absolutely hate Bob Lutz. Besides that , even with the hydrogen and other alternative fuel varieties, I personally think the government should (have 10 years ago...) mandate Marine outboard , inboard Hydrogen / alternative engines as to set up a primal fueling infrastructure that can logically blossom to that of the gasoline automobile fueling web across the usa.

 

The whole thing is a joke , the technology has been around long enoug were already many years behind. When I heard the New camaro was coming out I just shook my head. SOS , total yawn. Its all political and will slowly change but its years away. Anyways I fully support the sensible alternative fuels that rid of a "fossil" fuel and the fossil fuel economy. Its time to allow a new type of growth in the economy one that has no dependancy or at least on a much lesser scale , an economy allowing expansion of even greater human achievments.

[Patrick]

If you want to delve into the conspiracy fueled reason why we still aren't away from oil...key gov't personnel have interests in large oil companies...discuss. Go!

 

Weight loss is one possible solution and yes, GM needs to lose pushrods, except in high performance, specific vehicles (ie, Vette, Camaro) but in the Impala, use an ohc engine, compare fwd vs rwd fuel economy, make it flexfuel with cylinder shutoff. Cut back on the huge power drains in car amenities use. Make it so you have to order that GPS or AC again, like it was in my grandparent's time. Whatever the solution may be, it will cost money and take time, neither of which the major car companies of the USA seem to have, all leading back to money. Sorry for the long rambling post, I am exhausted.

[Science Abuse]

You want to argue packaging, are you kidding me? We're talking about engineering an efficiency, not external dimensions. I brought up the F1 motor because no one on the planet can make a pushrod motor that perfromrs like it. I'm comparing the pinacles.

I'm curious, what GM pushrods are getting better MPG then comperable Modulars?

4.6 5spd GT: 17/25

GTO 6spd: 17/25

 

4.6 auto GT: 17/23

GTO Auto: 16/21

Obviously BMW, Benz, Audi, VW, etc. don't deal with that, as they aren't in the truck market.

Oh they make a few.

http://www.fgedogawa.net/cars_photo/Mercedes%20truck.jpg

Armored?

A bit more practical

I don't have the time or energy at the moment go go through another one of your posts. I'll just point out that you haven't rebutted my point; It is possible to cheaply improve MPG in their cars. If they can't do it, it's because they suck at life, not because it's impossible. GM just isn't trying. They're pinching pennies and preserving the boards Bonuses. They could boost their CAFE average by offering more diesels in their cars and trucks.

 

I'm looking around, you're the only one really arguing for GM in this thread....hmm.

[Gergwheel1647545492]

http://www.fgedogawa.net/cars_photo/Mercedes%20truck.jpg

Armored?

A bit more practical

I have never seen any of those on american roads. But yet I see Chevy work vans all the time.

 

Let's compare compact cars:

Honda Civic Hybrid - 49 mpg city / 51 highway

Chevy Aveo - 26 mpg city / 35 mpg highway

 

The aveo is even a smaller car. GM needs to get off their asses and make SOMETHING that is fuel efficient.

 

Joe I completely agree with you that GM needs to be making trucks and such, those are a necessity.

[Science Abuse]

I have never seen any of those on american roads. But yet I see Chevy work vans all the time.

Yes you have, it's just called the Dodge Sprinter. (where the hell is it sprinting?)

Also, though rare, you can find Unimogs in the states.

Benz even gets 20+mpg out of their Atego commercial box trucks. We could use that here, aye?

[Guest Mushijobah]

I raped an E320 yesterday on 71S, was that you?

[Guest Mushijobah]

Awaiting angry/voracious response...

[Berto]

v-e-h-i-c-l-e

[Guest Mushijobah]

The next word is...'Scioto'

[SpaceGhost]

Why dont we just go 100% ethanol? Then MPG wont matter nearly as much, and we wont be destroying the environment.

 

Because we don't have enough land to plant Corn and rotate the crop properly so that the corn does not destroy the soil. All the while growing food, you still want to eat? That is why the government is attempting to look for a grass source to make ethanol. We cannot switch to ethanol made from corn for the entire supply of gas for the country. Not enough refineries. Hell we don't have enough refineries for Gasoline, we haven't built one since 76. The refineries are not keeping up with demand.

[93berettagt]

I work at a Mercedes dealership, and for the price of the Mercedes it's really not worth it. All of the higher performance cars (SL, CL, CLS, CLK500, any of the AMG's) aren't really that fast (for what you paid) and the C's and E's really aren't so good on gas. As for the interiors I've driven a 05 Vette and it's interior seemed pretty much the same as the SL (keyless entry, fully adjustable automatic seats, push button ignition) the only thing the corvette didn't have was a fully adjustable steering wheel. However the vette (at least it seemed to me) was much faster while costing half the price (SL's run about 110K). Then there the “Holy Crap” that’s a lot of options S class, which suck at gas mileage, cost entirely too much, and it all boils down to I've ran through and through all the features they have in a matter of 10 minutes while driving it through the car wash. Now I know this really got off point of MPG but I just felt I needed to say that German Engineering isn't really that far advanced and is definitely not worth its cost. (And on a random side note the first time I got on it with a CL600 (V12 twin turbo) I giggled a little, like a girl)