Don't give up my civil liberties you pussy's

[V8 Beast]

please email all audiotapes/mp3s to lnxgodATgmail.com

 

 

Brian, I agree about the spying abilities. It just how far its gets pushed.

The more Leadway there given above the radar the further they go below.

 

Thorne for president! That makes perfect sense!

 

Scott, all cell phone are able to be listened in on if requested by a law official with the proper documentation.... OnStar = Verizon Wireless. Did you know that if you get a court order you can actually get text and pictures messages as well.

[TTQ B4U]

I can't comment on what you've done or what the DHS has come after you for.....I can only say that if there's a group of friends that ran a Network Security Group to educate sys admins on how to do something and you were forced to shut down, it's likely because you didn't do something in accordance with what the DHS say proper and safe. Set up a business and run it by the book and I bet they leave you alone like all the other businesses doing the same thing.

 

You don't think DHS has affected anyone not doing something wrong. I was investigated along with a few of my friends because we run a Network SEcurity group. What we did was educate systems admins how to run safer networks.

 

We had 0 I mean 0 blackhats. Everything was on the up and up. Yet we were forced to shut down to avoid further legal issues. Could we have fought it yes. Should we have to NO.

 

Smoking pot or abusing any drugs, especially those that are illegal isn't smart and doesn't move anyone forward in a positive fashion in any way. A dealer is someone selling drugs. However, I do feel drug abusers should be busted too. Does the guy smoking pot in his house hurt anyone? Don't know, but at some point, I bet he doesn't just smoke it and sleep it off. He puts everyone at risk when it comes to doing anything under the influence. It's illegal and he's breaking the law no matter how you look at it.

 

Making drugs legal vs illegal....won't do shit.....they just ran a big story on the impacts of legalized Pot in California and how it's causing more problems and a more corrupt system than ever before. I won't even argue that. Bigger and smarter people than us have studied that issue and it remains as is for a reason.

 

Whats a drug dealer? If someone smoked a joint is that a drug dealer? Did they harm anyone? Are there many other things those resources could be used for? The drug war is a joke. Legalizing pot would change the entire status of money fund and cut down on cocaine trafficing.

 

I don't quite get your example. Folks at DHS could care less if your gay and could care less about anything my wife and I talk about. When we discuss nuking the world and taking down bush with a bomb, then I give them permission to listen. Same goes for when you and your wife discuss those things....they have my blessing.

 

Lets say your gay, No one knows your gay. You live a private life. Now joe blow jim bob knows your gay. This guy is a worker bee for DHS. Its very possible that person knows them. Now that info is not private any more.

 

Was that fair to the gay man? This scenario could be anything that you consider private. I'm sure your wife and you talk about things that are ment for private. Those thigns in my opinion are ment for private use only. Not BigBrother.

 

I don't call it fear based reasoning...I think if there are folks up to no good and breaking the law, regardless of what the crime is, then I don't think they have any right to hide behind the liberties and freedoms of the rest of the society count on die for to defend. If you are growing pot in your house and selling it on the streets, I'm all for the feds breaking down your civil liberties to bust you. I really don't care if they break every law on the books or go against all that is good to do so. Taking such punks and drug dealers and hookers and burning them all in hell or rot their asses in jail simply makes my family's world a little safer and a much nicer to place to live.

 

It's like this...if you're up to no good and have something to fear, then be afraid, be very afraid......the rest of us, aren't likely going to worry about shit as the big bad police & Big Brother aren't after us....their after you and your kind. I'm good with that.

 

All you see is the fear based reasoning. Thats not a fair way to view things.

[TTQ B4U]

I don't think anyone in law enforcement or DHS, etc....cares if we look at porn unless it involves kids. Personally I do hope they monitor web traffic and hits on kiddie porn. Anyone gets busted with that stuff deserves to lose their rights and get put in a jail cell with Big Bubba and his 12" dick for a long time.

 

but the fact of the matter remains that you have a right to privacy. Could you imagine how half of us would be 'flagged' if they checked our surfing history after one day of looking at the shit that Linn puts in the pics/vids section? Shit he'd probably be hauled off to jail

 

Rule #1: don't do something that will draw unnecessary attention to you for any reason. I doubt you're going to lose a job over assumptions. Now if you're proven to surf porn, into BDSM and "may" be guilty of smoking pot and hang around the wrong crowd, etc....and you're up against Joe-Average Clean guy.....guess what....you're not likely to get the job and it ain't based on strictly on assumptions.

 

I tell people at work all the time, do not surf porn on your co. laptop. Who knows what Corporate has going on in the background. Don't try and be a smart ass and out-smart them. You'll never be fired for not surfing porn, but get busted once and you'll lose a pretty high paying job. We still lose a number of folks per quarter for being stupid. I guess they don't need the money as bad as they do a 'jerk' in a hotel.

 

Why am I so strict in my belief on letting things like this go on....ever see To Catch a Predator on Dateline. That show is not only eye opening, it's fucking disgusting that so many guys of all races, income levels, bands in life, go to such extremes to hurt a kid and fill a sick need. I'm all for bending the rules as there's more crazy fucks out there than we realize. Someone has to keep them in check.

 

What if you tried to apply for a gov't job that you were qualified for, would they be able to look at the stuff your flagged for and exclude you based on assumptions?? That may be a shitty example but don't you think you have a right to privacy? I'm all for living in a safe country but when is enough enough?

[TTQ B4U]

I see no indications that we are moving towards a Communist like state. Sure there will be folks that abuse power just as there always have been. The Lee-way DHS and Big Brother are being given and using is to catch the bad guys and perhaps some good guys doing a little bad now and then.

 

In general I think it's fair to say that those most concerned likely have a reason to be concerned somewhere in their closet of bones buried deep in private. I doubt that it's that they are strictly concerned about the civil rights and liberties for everyone else. There's most always an alternative motive.....and where there's not, nothing bad will come to them.

 

I've yet to meet a good man of God from any faith that is afraid of facing his maker. Those that are afraid usually have a reason..... some have been busted, others are still sitting in fear.

 

The more Leadway there given above the radar the further they go below.

[Scotty2Hotty]

Most companies people work for, even bump into people's personal lives. Privacy is a thing of the past.

[copperhead]

What I understand here, is that Tim is not a fan of due process.

 

Well, due process is what keeps INNOCENT people out of jail.

 

Tim, lets say I didn't like you for whatever reason. I make an anonymous phone call to the local PD, and tell them you send your kids off to school every day with drugs to peddle. Then, I call the terrorist hotline, and make up some BS about how you are a member of Al Qaida. Next thing you know, there is always someone over your shoulder. Your kids are getting harrassed constantly by the school faculty, possibly even kicked out. You are on a police list to get pulled over whenever seen and searched for contraband. Maybe the cop will plant something on you, because you are labeled as a bad guy, and they are pissed that they didn't find anything. Then, since you think due process is such a bad thing, you are held without bail, found guilty by a judge who doesn't want to spend the time convincing a jury, and locked away for a long time, or worse.

 

All because I made two BS phone calls.

 

This is the future you are advocating. You are the person that scares me to no end, because your reasoning doesn't involve worrying about what could happen, but rather blindly believing that the government will never use its powers for evil. I live in America, the land of the free, but if we keep going in this direction, it will be just like living in communist russia, only with elections. I'd rather have a few criminals go uncaught, then have to worry about being falsely arrested.

[copperhead]

Look at what is in TODAY'S news...

 

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/ny-nyroc245387882sep24,0,2760679.story

 

Newsday.com

Activist silenced for fear of surveillance

 

ROCCO PARASCANDOLA

 

rocco.parascandola@newsday.com

 

September 24, 2007

 

Jennifer Flynn is not a rabble-rouser. She's not an aspiring suicide bomber. She doesn't advocate the overthrow of the government. Instead, she pushes for funding and better treatment for people with HIV and AIDS.

 

Better keep an eye on her.

 

Wait! Somebody already did.

 

On the day before a rally by the New York City AIDS Housing Network at the 2004 Republican National Convention - a rally by an organization Flynn co-founded, and a rally that the NYPD had approved - she experienced something straight out of a spy novel.

 

While visiting her family in Hillside, N.J., Flynn spotted a car with a New York license plate parked outside the house. When she left to head back to her Brooklyn home that evening, the car followed hers. Shortly after leaving Hillside, two more vehicles, also with New York plates, seemed to be tailing her, too.

 

Trying to assure herself she wasn't nuts, Flynn tested her hunch - changing lanes, making turns, pulling over and parking. The drivers in those three vehicles mimicked her actions.

 

At one point, she recalled, she slowed down and one of the other vehicles ended up alongside her car. She looked over to see several men in the vehicle. She gestured toward them. The men "threw up their arms as if to say, 'We're only doing what we're told,'" she remembers.

 

On the New Jersey side of the Goethals Bridge, her followers pulled away. But later, when Flynn pulled up in front of her Flatbush home, she spotted another car, with two men inside, both with laptops. At 4 a.m., they were still there.

 

Is Flynn paranoid? Well, she is now. She did, however, jot down the license plate number of one of the vehicles in Jersey - a blue sport utility vehicle. When a reporter asked for the number, Flynn couldn't find it. Recently, it was found in a file kept by Christopher Dunn, the civil liberties lawyer she called that day in a panic.

 

The license plate number traces back to a company - Pequot Inc. - and a post office box at an address far from the five boroughs. Registering unmarked cars to post office boxes outside the city or to shell companies is a common practice of law enforcement agencies to shield undercover investigators.

 

The NYPD, however, says it didn't follow Flynn that evening. And the department's Deputy Commissioner of Intelligence David Cohen has said no federal agency was involved in preconvention surveillance.

 

So who was following Flynn? And what, exactly, did they hope to learn about a woman the NYPD knew well, as it had been in regular communication with her about her organization's rally?

 

The answer - well, part of it - is a 99-mile road trip from NYPD headquarters: uptown, into the Bronx, and onto I-87. A quick switch onto the Saw Mill River Parkway, then the Taconic Parkway. Fifty more miles to go, past the leaves turning color and the country club golf courses. After that, it's the winding roads of tony Millbrook, with its horse farms and vineyards.

 

At last, we're in Amenia, population 1,115. It's so far from the city its dry cleaners actually clean horse blankets.

 

The street named on the license-plate printout exists, though the address doesn't. An auto-shop worker on the block suggests checking with the post office. When Postmaster Bonnie Colgan and an assistant are shown the printout, they stop dead in their tracks.

 

There's a Pequot Capital Management in midtown and a Pequot Construction in the Bronx. But no Pequot Inc. in Amenia.

 

"That's not a real company," the assistant says. "The people who used that box, they're from New York. They used to come here and get the mail, but not anymore."

 

Colgan is tempted to elaborate, but doesn't.

 

"I can't because of the sensitive nature of the issue," she says.

 

Back in the city, Flynn takes a seat at a Starbucks near City Hall and shakes her head. She still feels as passionately about what she does as she did three years ago. But she concedes the experience has taken its toll.

 

"I feel like I've stepped back, in a way," she says. "I feel I'm not as vocal as I was. I'm still going to sign a petition. I'm still going to organize a rally. I do it. But now I'm deathly afraid."

 

Flynn, 35, may one day learn who was following her. Activists have decried police tactics at the GOP convention - 1,806 arrests, protesters hemmed in with orange netting, people arrested and held for hours and hours in a West Side pier warehouse. The New York Civil Liberties Union, which represents seven plaintiffs suing the city over their arrests, is pushing for the release of raw NYPD intelligence reports detailing police surveillance of activists and protest groups.

 

Flynn says the damage is done. She sees it in the attitudes of other activists. There's less desire. More trepidation.

 

"When you use scare tactics, you really are curbing our right to dissent against the government," she said. "The only thing this is serving to do is squash public dissent. By going after the organizers of a rally, you really are sending a message - 'Don't hold a rally.'"

 

Copyright © 2007, Newsday Inc.

[TTQ B4U]

I have no problem with due process, but I don't feel the whole process is needed in every case. There are pretty open and shut easily closed cases that instead get dragged out and appealed to death to no end. That pisses me off. I also get a little ticked when criminals hide behind laws and dodge into loopholes like pussy's. It happens all the time and shouldn't.

 

IMO nothing would happen and IF an investigation began it would end pretty quickly since there's nothing but two unknown phone calls in hand....and I'd likely never know the investigation was taking place....which is fine by me. I have enough drama in my life.

 

You're worrying too much. There will always be a rare instance in the grand scheme of life where bad things happen to good people, but it's much more likely that bad things will happen to bad people.....I'm referencing as things relate to the Po-Po knocking on your door.

 

Now if I smoked dope or had done drugs in my life or hang out with those that do, or if my bank account suddenly swells or doesn't match that of my family's W2's or if I was going overseas or meeting with shady people often, perhaps had tons of guns, lived in a shitty area, and in general was not who I am in real life, then things might be different and I would hope they would be.

 

See, I'd rather give Police and Gov't a little lee-way and have 10X more bad guys out of the worlds way. And I do realize that there are some innocent folks around sitting in jail, but they are usually closer to the crime at hand in some way than completely distant from and foreign to it as I likely would be.

 

I'm not saying I don't feel for them, or feel it won't ever happen, but it's not like you or me are going to remotely be the innocent guy convicted of a rape across town with a victim and circumstances not at all associated in any way with us. Usually the innocent are much closer to the crime in some way.

 

Tim, lets say I didn't like you for whatever reason. I make an anonymous phone call to the local PD, and tell them you send your kids off to school every day with drugs to peddle. Then, I call the terrorist hotline, and make up some BS about how you are a member of Al Qaida. Next thing you know, there is always someone over your shoulder. Your kids are getting harrassed constantly by the school faculty, possibly even kicked out. You are on a police list to get pulled over whenever seen and searched for contraband. Maybe the cop will plant something on you, because you are labeled as a bad guy, and they are pissed that they didn't find anything. Then, since you think due process is such a bad thing, you are held without bail, found guilty by a judge who doesn't want to spend the time convincing a jury, and locked away for a long time, or worse.

 

All because I made two BS phone calls.

 

This is the future you are advocating. You are the person that scares me to no end, because your reasoning doesn't involve worrying about what could happen, but rather blindly believing that the government will never use its powers for evil. I live in America, the land of the free, but if we keep going in this direction, it will be just like living in communist russia, only with elections. I'd rather have a few criminals go uncaught, then have to worry about being falsely arrested.

[TTQ B4U]

There's obviously more to the story that what was reported in the paper. anyone who is just innocently participating in an AIDS rally yet calls a civil liberties lawyer in a panic has more to be shared than just what we're seeing.

 

Me thinks it being around the Republican National Convention may have had something to do with it too. who found the license plate number in the file of the lawyer? why where they searching his files? were they? again, more to the story than we know.

 

I'm not really sure what she's afraid of? Obviously if they were out to kill or harm her, they wouldn't be waiting with laptops at 4am or have done what they did. Nothing just happens....even if Big Brother sent them, the question that needs to be asked is Why? They aren't going to just waste time and money to 'scare' and AIDS activist for no reason. I doubt they were there to 'scare' anyone.

 

She likely does know more than she's leading on, but I should go there as that would involve reading into it as much as we are left wondering about the story itself.

 

The media is a fun means of communicating...and often with a slant.

 

 

 

Look at what is in TODAY'S news...

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/ny-nyroc245387882sep24,0,2760679.story

[copperhead]

You're worrying too much. There will always be a rare instance in the grand scheme of life where bad things happen to good people, but it's much more likely that bad things will happen to bad people.....I'm referencing as things relate to the Po-Po knocking on your door.

 

Now if I smoked dope or had done drugs in my life or hang out with those that do, or if my bank account suddenly swells or doesn't match that of my family's W2's or if I was going overseas or meeting with shady people often, perhaps had tons of guns, lived in a shitty area, and in general was not who I am in real life, then things might be different and I would hope they would be.

 

See, I'd rather give Police and Gov't a little lee-way and have 10X more bad guys out of the worlds way. And I do realize that there are some innocent folks around sitting in jail, but they are usually closer to the crime at hand in some way than completely distant from and foreign to it as I likely would be.

 

First paragraph - I read news stories about once every other month about police raids going wrong, where they bust into the WRONG HOUSE (not even whats listed on the warrent) in a no-knock raid, and either getting shot at by a victim of the police, or killing someone completely uninvolved. I'll look for links after work, as I should be leaving 10 minutes ago.

 

Second paragraph - You are badly stereotyping people there. I live in a bad area, so I'm a criminal? I smoked a joint in college, I'm a criminal? I travel to other countries, I'm a criminal? I sell my car and don't report it to the IRS, I'm a criminal? I own legally purchased firearms, I'm a criminal? And who is to say who I am "in real life?" That doesn't even make sense.

 

Third paragraph - I honestly think you are overestimating the number of criminals out there. Increasing police power can lead to terrible things, we don't want to go down that path. Stop being so narrow minded and look at the big picture.

[TTQ B4U]

I already said there are going to be accidents. Why is it that the wrong house is selected and these things happen? Poor police work or human error such as a typo maybe? I highly doubt it's the police flexing their muscle and out to scare people or attempting to enact martial law and burst in on the innocent demanding their papers.

 

First paragraph - I read news stories about once every other month about police raids going wrong, where they bust into the WRONG HOUSE (not even whats listed on the warrent) in a no-knock raid, and either getting shot at by a victim of the police, or killing someone completely uninvolved. I'll look for links after work, as I should be leaving 10 minutes ago.

 

Yes, I am stereotyping folks. I'm using your scenario in which you made two anonymous phone calls....and I'm stating that yes, if I was living in a bad area known to have drug dealers and frequented Mexico or Columbia, was known on the streets to carry a gun and carried cash or had bank accounts that didn't match my income level, and had kids that were trouble makers then I'd say the "profile" warrants the cops sniff a little deeper on those anonymous tips you called in.

 

What I meant by real life is that the scenario isn't real, etc....no big deal. Taking it all out of context one by one as you did and not applying it to a scenario then yes, you appear innocent. That's often times what defense attorney's will do. They can make even the baddest drug dealer look like a victim of urban upbringing...but they can't make them appear like the model citizen. Even a thug with money is still a thug.

 

Second paragraph - You are badly stereotyping people there. I live in a bad area, so I'm a criminal? I smoked a joint in college, I'm a criminal? I travel to other countries, I'm a criminal? I sell my car and don't report it to the IRS, I'm a criminal? I own legally purchased firearms, I'm a criminal? And who is to say who I am "in real life?" That doesn't even make sense.

 

I don't think 10x is overestimating. There are tons of criminals out there that essencially 'get kicked' or never get busted. There simply aren't enough good guys to get them all. But that's okay, I'd rather have them bust the higher up bad guys and use that little lee way or DHS edge to get them. Again, I don't have anything to worry about....there's nothing I'm doing to draw the DHS or cops in to tap my phones or stalk me at the store or follow my travels, or care how much money I have or if I've bought a gun. I'm clean living and contrary to what the fearful folks here think, the po-po aren't out to waste time on the innocent.

 

Third paragraph - I honestly think you are overestimating the number of criminals out there. Increasing police power can lead to terrible things, we don't want to go down that path. Stop being so narrow minded and look at the big picture.

[thorne]

Thorne for president! That makes perfect sense!

 

Scott, all cell phone are able to be listened in on if requested by a law official with the proper documentation.... OnStar = Verizon Wireless. Did you know that if you get a court order you can actually get text and pictures messages as well.

All CIngular pictures of you have pic mail upload right away. You can hack your phone and fix it.

[thorne]

you dont want the video? hmm... oh well...

yes please =)

[Tractor]

Interesting reads, but times change and I think that the founding fathers, who wrote the below some what, 250 years ago....a pretty freaking long time ago, accounted for all the crimes and events that we're seeing today. They were more concerned with what they experienced back in England, which doesn't hold a candle to all the crap we're experiencing today, both here in our own country and what is happening around the world.

 

I gotta respond to this one. Times may change, but history does in fact repeat itself for the most part. The people of 250 years ago were under rule by kings and churches that watched and listened for disobedience. They jailed and executed people on little or no evidence and it didn't only happen in england. It happened in every nation and/or city state in the history of civilization. Our founding fathers knew this and were attempting a great social experiment to stop or at least slow the progress of this form of harassment. The people were to be free to go about daily life and to pursue happiness as they saw fit. I'm not sure how broad we should define this because for some people happiness comes from raping kids and other crimes that are socially unacceptable.

 

All I know is that we live in the land of the free and need to retain as much freedom as possible or all will be lost.

 

Evan

[thorne]

All you GM Onstar customers, guess who can listen in via Patriot Act??

and yet you give up your rights

[TTQ B4U]

That's my point....people can't just do what they want because they can and feel they have a right to do so. There are laws and we live in society. I also don't fear that we are going to go back to the days of a King and the church ruling the land. If anything, I fear that church going folks are being out numbered by those with no faith at all.

 

The people were to be free to go about daily life and to pursue happiness as they saw fit. I'm not sure how broad we should define this because for some people happiness comes from raping kids and other crimes that are socially unacceptable.

Evan

[Tractor]

Well to me I"m fine with people pursuing happiness anyway they see fit and right. If they get in my way I'll just kill the SOB's and if they don't like me they can do the same. At least we will die free.

 

Evan

[thorne]

OMFG JESUS CHRIST JSUT LEAVE GOTO FUCKING RUSSIA YOU FUCKING COMMUNIST. ITS OK FOR PEOPLE TO FUCKING DIE TO PROTECT AMERICA FROM A NONEXSTITANT PERSON. ITS NON EXISTANT BECAUSE UNTIL THE PERSON IS IDENTIFED AND CHARGED THEY STILL ARE NOT A BAD GUY. ITS OK TO GIVE UP LIFE JUST FUCKING GIVE YOURS UP RIGHT NOW . I AM SO PISSED THAT SOMEONE WHO CARRY THEM SELF IN SUCH A DIGNIFIED WAY COULD SO EASYLY JUSTFY PEOPLE TO FUCKING DIE. YOU THINK ITS FUCKING OK FOR SOMEONE TO BREAK DOWN YOUR FUCKING DOOR AND SHOOT YOU.

 

 

 

 

LETS TAKE THIS. IF TONIGHT THE POLICE KICKED IN YOUR DOOR PUT GUNS IN YOUR KIDS FACES SCARED THE DAYLIGHTS OUT OF YOUR FAMILY. CAUSING POSSIBLY EVEN WOR.SE WHEN YOU HEAR SOMEONE CRASH IN AND MAYBE YOU GET SHOT.

 

YOU WOULD FUCK YOUR GOD DAMN KIDS UP THAT BAD TO THINK ITS OK TO SUBJECT THEM TO IT. NO IT MAY NOT HAPPEN TO YOU KIDS BUT GUESSE WHAT ITS HAPPENED ON MORE THEN 1 OCCASION. THEM KIDS HAVE A HEAVY FUCKING BURDEN ON THERE MOTHER FUCKING SHOULDS NOW. THEY SEEN THERE PARENTS SHOT BY THE FUCKING POLICE. YOU THINK FROM THAT POINT FOWARD THEY WILL LIKE THE COPS.

 

I apolgize for caps. but I wanted to just fucking scream because of the pure audaicisty that you advocate the harm of children because it might save a child from porn but there dad being killed is ok.

 

There is no fucking argument you can respond with that would even amount to a god damn thing. you said its ok for accidents because its for this great good. those accidents involve real people if you would come down from you fucking chariot in the god damn sky and stop thinkgin you perfect. ya know people got shit in there lives thats not to be fucking public.

 

I got a family member who did something he should not ahve and got in trouble. The police fucked up not 1 but 2 mother fucking times kicking in the fucking door of a house over here. they thought he lived there. Even though he had moved over 1.5 years back.

 

There were children in that house, do you think that was good for them. now this is a fucking real scenario i can get you the court docs from madison fucking county to prove it.

 

This type of shit will only get worse when there busting doors down on imprper research. you have child porn why? you clicked on a fucking LINN link.

 

So fuck you, you are the most unamerican person I've ever seen online. You don't give af uck about america's values you care about your fucking care bear world and thinking you can protect it by giving up what other epopel hold dear.

 

That fucked up part is you will end up losing more because now the goverment is so busy with its BS there missing the real fucking issues.

 

You think the goverment has power now. I will say that when they want to sniff a users email they have to contact us right now and go threw legal proceedings and its a big process. But when they request it we retain the info at that point so if they get threw Legal dept the get the data.

 

now what will you fucking think when they force us to put a box in to sniff all email. Thats ok to you, Look long and fucking hard at all your email and tell me there is not 1 email that would get flagged and I will show you why it would.

 

They would use Baysian technology similar to spamassian its the only solution that would support inline fast reading. Lots of real email gets flagged as spam because just simple words or even a missppleing exists. they get flagged as spam.

 

 

So think about that. next time you vote. think abouts omeone other then you frieghtened little self for a sec. Or maybe realise the fear is founded but there ar emany other ways to properly deal with the solution.

 

 

 

 

I apolgize for all the misspellings / Curse words / english problems

 

once i calm down tommorow I will rewrite it.

It's people liek you that make me lose faith in america. You hate america and what we stand for. you also must hat ethe troops as they fight for freedoms and civil rights for another nation and our own. since you don't give a fuck if you have rights you don't give af uck about the troops.

 

You can tell me I'm full of shit but i think you would find more poeple on cr back my statements then yours because your hopefully the minority of misinformed people.

 

Again I hope you don't think I hate you are anything Its just i think you need to reanylze you beliefs and fears.

[mrblunt]

Umm....W.o.W.

[copperhead]

That's my point....people can't just do what they want because they can and feel they have a right to do so. There are laws and we live in society. I also don't fear that we are going to go back to the days of a King and the church ruling the land. If anything, I fear that church going folks are being out numbered by those with no faith at all.

 

Americans were granted the constitutional rights to pursue happiness, so long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others. That's where laws come into play, to provide guidelines and punishments for harming the rights of others.

 

Cut and dry.

[copperhead]

And here it is, before I pass out.

 

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

 

This link is to a map showing many instances (and the stories) of police raids gone wrong. This is not all inclusive, there are plenty of other events that haven't made it here, but this should give you an idea as to what could happen to anyone.

[copperhead]

Yeah, the police never do any wrong

 

Rev. Accelyne Williams.

 

Williams, a 75-year-old retired minister, dies of a heart attack after 13 members of a heavily-armed Boston SWAT team storm his apartment in body armor and black masks.

 

One police source tells the Boston Herald of the raid, "Everything was done right, except it was the wrong apartment." Police later discover that an informant had given them incorrect information that a "Jamaican drug posse operated out of the building," and failed to specify which apartment to target.

 

A week after the raid, media investigators discovered that three of the officers involved had been accused in a 1989 civil rights suit of using nonexistent informants to secure drug warrants. The suit resulted in a $50,000 settlement from the city of Boston and one witness testified that an officer apologized after realizing the mistake, telling its occupants, "this happens all the time."

 

Sources:

 

Joseph Mallia and Maggie Mulvihill, "Minister dies as cops raid wrong apartment," Boston Herald, March 26, 1994, p. 1.

 

Maggie Mulvihill, "3 cops at botched raid were sued in prior gaffe," Boston Herald, April 1, 1994, p. 6.

 

March 25, 1994

[TTQ B4U]

I fail to see how a SWAT team bursting into a house correctly or incorrectly is a problem with DHS. As I've said before, the mistake is likely due to human error such as a typo or something.

 

Is it okay? No.....but then perhaps if they were allowed through better, more effective means to locate the bad guys then this shit wouldn't happen....but nooooo, we have to protect everyone's rights so bad because a few are so afraid of the big bad Feds that the bad guys can duck and hide easily. That's my real point...when the bad guys can hide behind the rights, freedoms and liberties that the good guys have, something needs to be done about it.

 

OMFG JESUS CHRIST JSUT LEAVE GOTO FUCKING RUSSIA YOU FUCKING COMMUNIST. ITS OK FOR PEOPLE TO FUCKING DIE TO PROTECT AMERICA FROM A NONEXSTITANT PERSON. ITS NON EXISTANT BECAUSE UNTIL THE PERSON IS IDENTIFED AND CHARGED THEY STILL ARE NOT A BAD GUY. ITS OK TO GIVE UP LIFE JUST FUCKING GIVE YOURS UP RIGHT NOW . I AM SO PISSED THAT SOMEONE WHO CARRY THEM SELF IN SUCH A DIGNIFIED WAY COULD SO EASYLY JUSTFY PEOPLE TO FUCKING DIE. YOU THINK ITS FUCKING OK FOR SOMEONE TO BREAK DOWN YOUR FUCKING DOOR AND SHOOT YOU.

 

LETS TAKE THIS. IF TONIGHT THE POLICE KICKED IN YOUR DOOR PUT GUNS IN YOUR KIDS FACES SCARED THE DAYLIGHTS OUT OF YOUR FAMILY. CAUSING POSSIBLY EVEN WOR.SE WHEN YOU HEAR SOMEONE CRASH IN AND MAYBE YOU GET SHOT.

 

YOU WOULD FUCK YOUR GOD DAMN KIDS UP THAT BAD TO THINK ITS OK TO SUBJECT THEM TO IT. NO IT MAY NOT HAPPEN TO YOU KIDS BUT GUESSE WHAT ITS HAPPENED ON MORE THEN 1 OCCASION. THEM KIDS HAVE A HEAVY FUCKING BURDEN ON THERE MOTHER FUCKING SHOULDS NOW. THEY SEEN THERE PARENTS SHOT BY THE FUCKING POLICE. YOU THINK FROM THAT POINT FOWARD THEY WILL LIKE THE COPS.

 

DHS/law enforcement doesn't make things that we as normal citizens have in our closet public for all to see. If you're guilty of a crime or have something to hide that could lead to being charged with a crime, then I have zero sympathy for you. If you're gay or on medication or have gone chapter 7, the feds don't care and it's not like they are going to toss your life in front of the world for all to see over personal matters.

 

ya know people got shit in there lives thats not to be fucking public.[

 

So you have a family member who got into trouble, is running from the law and since the police didn't have the means to dig deep and his "rights" were protected and an accident happened, it's their fault the kids experienced what they did?

 

Sounds to me like your family member needs to 'man up' and face his punishment dude. I'm sorry but if they are after him so badly and he's a criminal, then I have no concern about his rights or liberties as he's simply using them to protect himself from being brought to justice or facing a trial where his guilt or innocence will decided.

 

I got a family member who did something he should not ahve and got in trouble. The police fucked up not 1 but 2 mother fucking times kicking in the fucking door of a house over here. they thought he lived there. Even though he had moved over 1.5 years back.

 

There were children in that house, do you think that was good for them. now this is a fucking real scenario i can get you the court docs from madison fucking county to prove it.

 

It's happening now because they have inadequate information. Perhaps if they had his phones tapped or were able to dig into his life a bit more without his hiding behind the legal system, they would have had the proper information to pinpoint his location and nail his ass. Again, I don't blame the police. Perhaps you should have turned him in? Why are you not in some way morally guilty of what happened to those kids? Maybe it's you're hiding your relative or not helping the police bring a wanted man to face the system that caused it?

 

You're right, I care more about living in a care bear world than protecting the rights and liberties of the guilty. My wife's worked in the legal system for a long time and grew up in the world of the prosecutors office here in Cbus. I've heard and seen way too many bad guys hide behind the law that I have innocent people hurt. There will always be the exceptions, always. However, there will be far less of these exceptions and bad things happening to good people if when/if we can rid society of more and more of the bad guys.

 

I have no problem not bringing my bottle of water from home on a plane, or having them search my bags, or having them probe my PC along with everyone else's if we're suspected of having illegal material on it, if it's going to insure my plane doesn't blow up or that the guy next door isn't downloading kiddie porn. They can tap phones all across the country for all I care. I have nothing to hide and if I'm gay, get AIDS or sleep with animals, I'm sure they don't give a crap about that if they are looking for the bad guys.

 

You're blowing it all out of proportion anyway. Take the phone thing.....they are tapping the phones of suspsected terrorist associates and faimlies. I'm sorry but if they are tapping the phones of every middle eastern family with even 1% Persian Blood in them, I don't care. THat pretty much means I'm in the clear along with a huge majority of people. AGain, the Feds don't care what I say on the phone and don't have the manpower or ability to tap everyone in America.

 

Now let's say they do have a super computer that taps all the cell phones in the US and they peg you for talking about killing Prez. Bush....perhaps in just good debate/fun and not really meanining it....I really don't care....I think they should follow up on that and insure you're not some sick bastard.

 

Now, you may have done drugs, you may have been busted by the DHS for some networking thing recently, you may have a fugative in the family....well, shit that sounds more like you're going to get picked apart than say me.....'cause I don't have any of that shit in my closet. Sorry about your luck, but you made those choices and will have to deal with them picking at you a bit closer.....and yes, in the name of safety for me and my family, I support that.

 

So fuck you, you are the most unamerican person I've ever seen online. You don't give af uck about america's values you care about your fucking care bear world and thinking you can protect it by giving up what other epopel hold dear.

 

I'm all for the legal system for getting the data, etc....but it also allows the bad guys to rid themselves of the evidence. I think it was the folks at Enron that were shredding documents but had so many to shred they didn't get rid of them all before they got busted....hmmm....so even the white collar criminals will hide their tracks. I say fuck that, if they want to go after suspected bad guys in such a way to prevent them from hiding behind the law or erasing any evidence, then go for it.

 

So far as a box that sniffs my email.....they'd be pretty board actually. Outside work, I have family and friends that I talk to and don't have any terrorist talk or kiddie porn to worry about....and I don't think the Feds are interested in much else that's in my email system. Besides, I'm not in any way associated with a crime that's going to warrant them to sniff me out. Now If I get caught dealing drugs or laundering money, then I opened Pandora's box and brought that upon myself. Then it would be time to pay the piper I suppose.

 

Look at the black box in your car. They already have it and I support it. It was a few years back that I remember a cop was killed on 270 near Gahanna and the defendant insisted he wasn't speeding and drunk, yet the box confirmed he hit the cop at over 95mph. Hmmm....sounds to me like a case of big brother served the justice system well in that case.

 

You think the goverment has power now. I will say that when they want to sniff a users email they have to contact us right now and go threw legal proceedings and its a big process. But when they request it we retain the info at that point so if they get threw Legal dept the get the data.

 

now what will you fucking think when they force us to put a box in to sniff all email. Thats ok to you, Look long and fucking hard at all your email and tell me there is not 1 email that would get flagged and I will show you why it would.

 

I think about it all the time. I think about how I am impacted and if what is being done is a good or bad thing for the good people of the world. I really don't care what happens to those that open Pandora's box and are thrust into the spotlight of Big Brother and are being investigated. We are way, way too concerned about the rights of the bad guys in the hopes of protected the rights of everyone. Instead I think the rights of the good guys should be protected as you say, but those that are crossing into the gray area or are accused or just plain guilty....the rules need to change so they aren't hiding behind them.

 

So think about that. next time you vote. think abouts omeone other then you frieghtened little self for a sec. Or maybe realise the fear is founded but there ar emany other ways to properly deal with the solution.

 

I don't hate America and what we stand for. I travel all over and love the US. I think the freedoms we have are awesome. I just am sick and tired of the bad guys hiding behind the law or demanding the same freedoms as the good guys. Our legal system has flaws and loopholes that need closed and I am going to support what it takes to do that.

 

Also, please don't comment on how I feel about the military. Both my brothers and my father served many, many years. I am however, not bent so far in one direction that I can't see both ways.

 

It's people liek you that make me lose faith in america. You hate america and what we stand for. you also must hat ethe troops as they fight for freedoms and civil rights for another nation and our own. since you don't give a fuck if you have rights you don't give af uck about the troops.

 

I'm not saying your full of shit or making any personal attacks on you or others in any way. I actually try pretty hard not to and my history here proves that. I can't say others don't but I can't control them or prevent them from attacking me or others so I don't worry about it. If I'm in the minority that's okay. If it wasn't for someone making a stand in the other direction the thread would have had like three posts saying they agree with you and that would be it.....that would be pretty boring if you ask me.

 

You can tell me I'm full of shit but i think you would find more poeple on cr back my statements then yours because your hopefully the minority of misinformed people.

 

I don't....although you are a little aggressive and personal at times, but I look past that. I don't hold any ill will or malice towards you or anyone else either. Some care some don't and still hate, but again, I can't stop them. We're cool. Just debating things out on the web like millions of others.

 

Again I hope you don't think I hate you are anything Its just i think you need to reanylze you beliefs and fears.

[TTQ B4U]

According to the data on the map only 41 innocent people died as a result since 1985. That's less than 4 people per year Nationwide.

 

I would bet there's more than an average of four innocent people per year seriously impacted or killed by the bad guys that got away.

 

Is it right that 41 died? No, but it's less wrong than protecting all the bad guys that are getting away in the mean time? No.

 

I don't mean to take this thread off topic a bit, but it's the same justification about the war in Iraq. Thousands of innocent lives are being taken half a world away in the efforts of holding off terrorists from hurting us here at home.

 

See, agree with a statement that Redneck-Scott made once that by our troops being over there, the terrorists/extremists are more busy fighting on their turf than carrying out plans to hurt us here at home.

 

What makes that war more right than the war we're fighting here at home where only 41 innocents died in 12 years vs thousands in less than 6 years over there?

 

 

And here it is, before I pass out.

 

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

 

This link is to a map showing many instances (and the stories) of police raids gone wrong. This is not all inclusive, there are plenty of other events that haven't made it here, but this should give you an idea as to what could happen to anyone.

[TTQ B4U]

I never said the police don't make mistakes or break the rules to accomplish a goal. What I am saying is that they aren't going to break rules for the hell of it and create havoc or implement marital law for the sake of harassing innocent people. That's what everyone commenting here seems to be afraid of happening.

 

What the cops in your story did was to catch a bad guy, not hurt the innocent victim. I'm sure the rules are bent everyday by law enforcement so they can do what they believe is right and take down the bad guys.

 

What I'm saying is give them the tools and support the means to take down the bad guys without having to break the rules to do it. Our system is protecting the bad guys equally as much as the innocent people of the country....but hey, I'm sure O.J. Simpson is loving that part of our society.

 

Yeah, the police never do any wrong