sol740 Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Can we do beerboarding with Keith Stone instead? :lolguy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 :lolguy: http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt236/Scotty_Sapper/KeithStone2.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 no thank you. i vote "no" for a CR sponsored waterboarding event. you can call dr. rick for medical backup if this event takes place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 no thank you. i vote "no" for a CR sponsored waterboarding event. you can call dr. rick for medical backup if this event takes place. Um no you can't Eli sent him packing. Also I do the sinus rinse a lot I think I could make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Can't get video to load. Want to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Boils down to about what Hal mentioned. It's similar to people and their tolerance for pain. Take MMA fighters for instance. They beat the ever living shit out of themselves, but still keep fighting. There's a mental level involved with any kind of torture. Psychological Operations thrives on mentally messing with our enemy. When you break the mind, the body will follow. From the link I posted, I don't think it's about tolerating pain or mind over body. The guy who tried it said it was a completely involuntary reflex response to water entering the airways. It's not about holding your breath because they're literally pouring the water into your nose/mouth. In any case, I work with a SERE instructor. I'm sure he's witnessed more than a few water boardings. I'll ask him about it this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 From the link I posted, I don't think it's about tolerating pain or mind over body. The guy who tried it said it was a completely involuntary reflex response to water entering the airways. It's not about holding your breath because they're literally pouring the water into your nose/mouth. In any case, I work with a SERE instructor. I'm sure he's witnessed more than a few water boardings. I'll ask him about it this weekend. Yes it is about tolerance. You can control a lot of those reflexes with enough training. I referenced SEALs earlier, watch their pool comp part of the BUD/S documentary on class 234 to see what I'm talking about. Most of SERE is classified so he really shouldn't tell you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonderboy Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 I dont see the big deal, I do this pretty regularly in the bedroom to make things interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Yes it is about tolerance. You can control a lot of those reflexes with enough training. I referenced SEALs earlier, watch their pool comp part of the BUD/S documentary on class 234 to see what I'm talking about. Hey, I'm just going off the first-hand account of a guy who tried it. Maybe you can train to control those reflexes, but I doubt it's like normal water training. Hell, the guy in my link even said he swam one time without breathing until he passed out. Seems like he knew a thing or two about water training. Who knows. Try it and get back to us. Most of SERE is classified so he really shouldn't tell you very much. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Hey, I'm just going off the first-hand account of a guy who tried it. Maybe you can train to control those reflexes, but I doubt it's like normal water training. Hell, the guy in my link even said he swam one time without breathing until he passed out. Seems like he knew a thing or two about water training. Who knows. Try it and get back to us. lol Normal water training isn't pool comp. Go watch that video and read some accounts before commenting on that again. As far as your "lol", I can only assume the guy has already told you a lot. Ask him if he really enjoys jail time if someone who cares, finds out that he's talking about classified information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Normal water training isn't pool comp. Go watch that video and read some accounts before commenting on that again. This isn't worth arguing over. I found 1 account from 1 guy who said "I had no control over this. It was a reflex. I don't think I could train myself to suppress it." I'm not arguing that I understand human physiology better than you, or that I'm more well versed in SEAL training or whatever. All I'm saying is, the only first-hand account I can find says it was different than normal pain. Find me a first-hand account that disagrees and I'll reconsider. As far as your "lol", I can only assume the guy has already told you a lot. Ask him if he really enjoys jail time if someone who cares, finds out that he's talking about classified information. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 This isn't worth arguing over. I found 1 account from 1 guy who said "I had no control over this. It was a reflex. I don't think I could train myself to suppress it." I'm not arguing that I understand human physiology better than you, or that I'm more well versed in SEAL training or whatever. All I'm saying is, the only first-hand account I can find says it was different than normal pain. Find me a first-hand account that disagrees and I'll reconsider. lol I've already told you what to reference on controlling that reflex, you just won't do it. There are a bunch of videos online of former SEAL's being waterboarded too, you just must be too lazy to find them. Hell, there was even an article about training to suppress that reflex a few weeks ago in the news. Lol. Where do you work? Should I go about finding out the old fashioned way? Do you want to continue down this path for your SERE School instructor coworker? Accusations, even when difficult to prove, are not a good thing right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 I've already told you what to reference on controlling that reflex, you just won't do it. "In Pool Comp you will assume full dive gear with double hose regulators on the dive tanks and swim along the deep end of the Combat Training Tank. Soon, as swift as a shark attack, you are tossed around like a rag doll and will have all of your gear and tanks torn from your body (see video (2 mb) quicktime required. The regulator hoses are tied in outrageous knots by the relentless underwater aggressor (instructor Psycho)(see video (2.2 mb) quicktime required. You are in a precarious position and could easily panic and bolt for the surface. However, if you don't want to fail the test and be rolled from training, you find your source of air and untangle the knot to be able to breathe underwater. If you accomplish this you must re-don all of your gear properly and return to the surface. This is no small chore - just another day in the life of a Tadpole trainee." None of that sounds like waterboarding. It sounds like hell, no doubt, but I can't find anything that says SEALS are trained to suppress the drowning reflex that happens when water enters the airways. Maybe they're waterboarded so they know what it feels like, but that's different than being trained to control it. Can you find me something specific so I don't have to spend hours looking for what you're talking about? I mean, I gave you a very specific, very graphic first hand account of someone who waterboarded themselves. Give me something that specific that I can read that counters that guy's experience. There are a bunch of videos online of former SEAL's being waterboarded too, you just must be too lazy to find them. Hell, there was even an article about training to suppress that reflex a few weeks ago in the news. I'd be interested in that article. Got a link? Lol. Where do you work? Should I go about finding out the old fashioned way? Do you want to continue down this path for your SERE School instructor coworker? Accusations, even when difficult to prove, are not a good thing right now. lol, you go find out the old fashioned way. I don't think as much of SERE is as classified as you think it is, that's all. And generally people know when to shut up -- I trust that my friend isn't going to tell me things he's not supposed to. I've talked to dozens of aircrew members who had to go through it, and I have a hard time believing that the all happened to forget to tell me that they were giving me classified info. I mean, people even blog about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codyh Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 lol, you go find out the old fashioned way. I don't think as much of SERE is as classified as you think it is, that's all. And generally people know when to shut up -- I trust that my friend isn't going to tell me things he's not supposed to. I've talked to dozens of aircrew members who had to go through it, and I have a hard time believing that the all happened to forget to tell me that they were giving me classified info. I am truly surprised in Hal's knowledge of SERE training... o.O? You are truly (truly) one of those people who has knowledge in every subject, and uses that knowledge at the most opportune time. Anyways, like I said. Hal is 100% correct. All SERE info is classified. And your comment "I don't think as much of SERE is as classified as you think it is" doesnt make sense. It is either classified or not. I do not know first hand info about SERE, nor will I act like I do. But my brother went through SERE to become a loadmaster on a C-130, and my dad was an aggressor at the SERE training camp in Spokane, Washington. (AKA spokanistan) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 None of that sounds like waterboarding. It sounds like hell, no doubt, but I can't find anything that says SEALS are trained to suppress the drowning reflex that happens when water enters the airways. Maybe they're waterboarded so they know what it feels like, but that's different than being trained to control it. Can you find me something specific so I don't have to spend hours looking for what you're talking about? I mean, I gave you a very specific, very graphic first hand account of someone who waterboarded themselves. Give me something that specific that I can read that counters that guy's experience. I'd be interested in that article. Got a link? lol, you go find out the old fashioned way. I don't think as much of SERE is as classified as you think it is, that's all. And generally people know when to shut up -- I trust that my friend isn't going to tell me things he's not supposed to. I've talked to dozens of aircrew members who had to go through it, and I have a hard time believing that the all happened to forget to tell me that they were giving me classified info. I mean, people even blog about it. Congrats, you posted a basic description of the requirements. Like I said, go watch it. You are required to suppress the drowning reflex when you have completely exhausted your air supply. That's a big reason people fail, they panic like normal people would. Just because one way has water being forced in and another way has you being forced to stay in water, does not mean that the reflex is different. Specifically, go watch BUD/S pool comp and SF dive school. You'll see the panic they are required to suppress and at least one of them explains the reflex. Just because a lot of people don't care about posting classified info (i.e., all the Wikileaks sources) does not make it ok for another person to do the same thing. The stuff an instructor would know (i.e., practices) is classified, not the basic stuff. I don't think you know as much about classification and the laws surrounding it as you think you do. I don't remember the headline or date of the article or I would find it again. It basically discussed the simple rules to survive waterboarding. It was similar to the Manswers episode, but truthful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 I am truly surprised in Hal's knowledge of SERE training... o.O? You are truly (truly) one of those people who has knowledge in every subject, and uses that knowledge at the most opportune time. Anyways, like I said. Hal is 100% correct. All SERE info is classified. And your comment "I don't think as much of SERE is as classified as you think it is" doesnt make sense. It is either classified or not. I do not know first hand info about SERE, nor will I act like I do. But my brother went through SERE to become a loadmaster on a C-130, and my dad was an aggressor at the SERE training camp in Spokane, Washington. (AKA spokanistan) I know a lot of stuff, deal with it. When I don't know something, I won't post. All of SERE is not classified. His comment makes sense, it's just wrong in this case. There is a lot that is classified that an instructor would deal with, like I said above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 Here's a good video. He was able to suppress his panic throughout almost the entire thing. Sure it sucks, but he took it like a boss. Do you really think he would have ended up breaking nice and easy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PjjMnT1xs4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patterson Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) ... Edited June 4, 2011 by Patterson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 Here's a good video. He was able to suppress his panic throughout almost the entire thing. Sure it sucks, but he took it like a boss. Do you really think he would have ended up breaking nice and easy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PjjMnT1xs4 I think he put the water larding thing into perspective from a different stand point. Not to mention, I think his experience looked a bit more on the realistic scenario side aswell. I was never saying waterboarding was easy, but different people react in different ways. Being mentally strong tends to help greatly when put into a situation like that. Hard to break someone mentally strong when it comes to "torture" and the various techniques employed. For instance, Sen McCain spent many years at the Hanoi Hilton being brutalized by the Vietnamese. He talks about staying mentally strong to help endure the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 I would like to get another crack at it. I didn't last very long last time we did it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 My wifes grandfather was a Navy Seal. They did in fact train using water torture but stopped because of the impact it had on them. It was considered one of the most uncomfortable things they had to deal with and the higher ups stopped due to many voicing concerns around it. The bottom line though is it worked on them too. Maybe not in 5 seconds but there is no time limit to how long they can do this to you in real life. P.S. that was about 40 years ago.. they are doing it to them again today along with much much worse forms of practice torture. Electric shock while being hung upside down and waterboarded anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 Electric shock while being hung upside down and waterboarded anyone? Only if I get the nipple clamps, while performed by a 6 foot tall topless, amazon type woman in heels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 I'm sure to get over any "mentally strong" types drugs are employed. So now your drugged, and being water boarded, something that they tell you is going to keep happening daily for the rest of your life unless you spill the beans. I think they spilled the beans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 I'm sure to get over any "mentally strong" types drugs are employed. So now your drugged, and being water boarded, something that they tell you is going to keep happening daily for the rest of your life unless you spill the beans. I think they spilled the beans. Probably not. Most agencies have figured out that aggressive interrogation simply doesn't work, like I said earlier. People will say anything to get the pain to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Tosh was waterboarded on his show with lemonade. Only lasted a second if I remember correctly, lol. It wasn't actually Tosh, but a special guest. I do not recall the actors name. He was bitching about his eyes burning for obvious reasons. So are we going to do a CR waterboarding meet and collection fund? One try, vids, first person to clear 15 seconds(or in the event of a tie, whomever lasts longest) gets the cash ? hahaha We couldn't even get 3/4's of the 'badasses' who were supposed to show up for boxing. You thing anyone would actually show up for this? I'd go and suffer just to see who actually showed up and who actually was a badass. lol Set it up. :megusta: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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