IBAUCLAPlaya Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Hi all, I have a 1997 MKIV Twin Turbo 6spd with 60k original miles. Bought the car bone stock in September. Compression test was done by a Toyota dealer with strong results. The only issue I've had is since owning the car it does blow a puff of smoke right when you fire it up. It smells more like fuel than anything, but I'm fairly certain it has a blueish tint to it meaning oil. Since buying the car, I've only added CCW wheels, eBay downpipe, HKS Superdragger catback, Max Air Intake, and 1 step colder plugs. When I pulled the old plugs, they were dry and looked good, but there was some oil built up under the spark plug cover. I'm guessing this may be from one of the vent hoses leaking at some point in time (one hose was zip tied). I did my best to clean up the pooled oil and then replaced both vent hoses. Recently, I took the car to have the rear fenders rolled to fit the wheels (11.5" 315s) and put the car on the dyno. Unfortunately, the passenger side fender paint is cracking a bit. On the dyno, I had two pulls done, one with sequential twins running normally, and one with true twin activated via the S4S switch. On sequential mode, I pulled 326hp, 322tq, max boost of 13.3, and AFR's going rich to 10.0 from 4500rpm to redline. On true twin mode, I pulled 326hp, 345tq, max boost of 15.5, AFR's going rich to 10.0 from 4500 to redline. On the way home, my wife was behind me and said the car was putting out a puff of smoke when I let off the throttle. Nothing on acceleration, even at WOT, but when I let off the gas pedal, a small puff of greyish smoke comes out. Here are a few questions I'm hoping the CR crew can help point me in the right direction with: 1. Smoke at startup. I've read this could either be the turbo(s) going bad, or leaking valve seals. Either way, it seems like this isn't a huge issue, but how can I diagnose what the true culprit is causing the smoke? I've searched and couldn't find anything definitive on how to tell if it's valve seals vs. turbos. 2. Smoke on throttle let off. Any thoughts as to what the cause of this could be? Is this something I should be worrying about? 3a. Rich AFR's. The shop told me 10.0 was too rich and could be damaging to the motor causing potential for blowing a piston ring. Is this really true? 3b. If the Rich AFR's are cause for concern, the shop recommended I get an AEM EMS to control this. I know there are much cheaper options available, but I'm not comfortable hacking up the factory harness. Long term my goals are very modest with this car, at most maybe adding a single turbo once the stock twins fail. Is the AEM too overkill, or is it a good solution based on the fact I don't want to hack up stock ECU and wiring? Can I still control turbo operation with the AEM, choosing whether or not to operate in sequential mode, or true twin mode? 4. Fender paint cracking. See pics below. This is not visible from standing next to the car, you really have to kneel down and look up into the fender. I really hope this doesn't mean I have to repaint the entire fender. The car never sees snow or even rain, the wettest it gets is when I wash it. What is the best way to handle this? My local shop told me the best option would be to chip away the paint about 3-5mm from where the crack is happening, coat the metal in a solution (I can't remember the specific name of it, maybe like PB-15 or something?), put a primer over it, then brush touch up paint on top. Chipping away the paint really scares me, but looking for the best advice out there. http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn228/IBAUCLAPlaya/IMG_3373_zpsaeb37718.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn228/IBAUCLAPlaya/IMG_3374_zpsec943ccc.jpg http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn228/IBAUCLAPlaya/IMG_3376_zps9d6892b3.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKIV Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Did the paint crack after the fenders were rolled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 For the puff of smoke on startup issue, try taking your intercooler and piping off and see if there is oil in there. If there is that could point to bad turbos or (depending on how the car is set up) the pcv system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBAUCLAPlaya Posted June 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Yes the paint cracked after the fenders were rolled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 You can certainly tell if the turbos are leaking oil by looking inside the pipes, though it sounds like valve seals to me. When you let off the gas the engine has the most vacuum and would likely pull some oil past the seals, if it was turbo it should do it under boost too. That AFR is a little too rich for me not to fix it, you start worrying about cylinder wash down at that point, its not an imediate threat but it will shorten the life of your engine. I'm not a Supra guy so I don't know specific fixes for your car and what they envolve, but I'm sure somebody can provide some good input on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 My local shop told me the best option would be to chip away the paint about 3-5mm from where the crack is happening, coat the metal in a solution (I can't remember the specific name of it, maybe like PB-15 or something?), put a primer over it, then brush touch up paint on top. Chipping away the paint really scares me, but looking for the best advice out there. I'm no expert but the above sounds ridiculous. Personally I'd go see a reputable body shop and have them fix it. Way too nice of a car to use "touch up paint" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiOn19s Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 If you resort to properly fixing the paint you're going to have to paint the fenders which I wouldn't suggest based on where the cracking is and the lack of severity of the damage currently. You got a great suggestion in your thread about this 2 months ago...clean up the area with paint prep, apply some clear over the cracking paint to isolate it from getting any other dirt, debris and water in it and then keep an eye on it to see if it gets any worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Pretty much what these guys said. Check your piping for oil deposits. Could be a leaky turbo but probably some valve stems or guides need replacing/adjusting. For the fender paint, do a few rolling burnouts with your old tires. This will deposit large amounts of protective rubber in the fender wells and edges. As good as spray on bedliner. Problem solved. :gabe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBAUCLAPlaya Posted June 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Thanks for the advice so far! I'll check the IC piping this coming weekend. Is there really any potential damage that could occur from either the valve seals though? The replacement is a bit beyond my experience level and I'd hate to shell out $1000 if there are no negative side effects other than burning oil. I'm thinking I'll go down the clear coat route first to see what happens. Anything specific I should do for paint prep? I was thinking simply spray some quick-detailer on a rag and wipe (I don't want to wash and risk water getting in there and rusting). Is there anything else before I apply a layer of clear coat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Sucking oil into the chambers not only costs power but can cause detonation certainly not something I'd want in a performance engine. If it was some old beater daily without boost it might not be as big a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGU Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 My soarer had the exact same oil issue and same symptoms when I got it. I did replace my valve stem seals and all my issues went away. The seals should be $40-50 and some one 4 ish hours of labor with the proper tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBAUCLAPlaya Posted June 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Valve stem seals on the Supra seems a bit more involved than 4 hours of labor...I found this how to guide. Guy said 20 hours for first time, but estimated 10-15 for the next step. Most shops I've talked to have quoted well over $1000 for the job, excluding parts. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?49859-How-To-Valve-Stem-Seal-Replacement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGU Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 Valve stem seals on the Supra seems a bit more involved than 4 hours of labor...I found this how to guide. Guy said 20 hours for first time, but estimated 10-15 for the next step. Most shops I've talked to have quoted well over $1000 for the job, excluding parts. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?49859-How-To-Valve-Stem-Seal-Replacement hate to disagree, Did my 1jz valve stem seals in around 4ish hours start to finish with the proper tools using the air compression/ pressurize cylander and then did the 1g-gte on my soarer in about 6 ish hours using the PVC pipe method and two people which sucked btw. get the proper tools and its a piece of cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBAUCLAPlaya Posted June 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 I just don't trust myself when it comes to things like timing, plus I don't have any of those specialized tools. I have the garage and the basic tools including air compressor, but need an expert to help with tools or take to a shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeesammy Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 I just don't trust myself when it comes to things like timing, plus I don't have any of those specialized tools. I have the garage and the basic tools including air compressor, but need an expert to help with tools or take to a shop. It sounds a lot like your Valve Stem Seals. I'd check your charge pipes as mentioned too. The timing belt is super easy on JZ engines. Remove your radiator, pull the timing covers off, and remove and replace the harmonic balancer as they all split. The hardest part is breaking the balancer bolt loose OE TQ spec is over 200 ft/lbs. It took me 10 hours my first time, second time it took me 2-3 hours. As stated, get the right tools. If you need any help PM me and I'll be happy to help you as best I can. I've torn my 1JZ down to do the timing 3 times now due to parts failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltboostin Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 1) The guy that rolled your fenders should be clubbed. 10 seconds with a heat gun would have prevented that. Who did the work? 2) Smoke? Sounds like its fucked. Sell the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiOn19s Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 I'm thinking I'll go down the clear coat route first to see what happens. Anything specific I should do for paint prep? I was thinking simply spray some quick-detailer on a rag and wipe (I don't want to wash and risk water getting in there and rusting). Is there anything else before I apply a layer of clear coat? Don't use a spray detailer it's got stuff in it that will cause the surface to not want to bond with the paint. Just use simple isoproply alcohol from the cosmetics department at the grocery store to prep the area. Ideally you should slightly scuff it too but with the delicate nature of the paint already I'd skip that step if I were you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBAUCLAPlaya Posted June 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 The main purpose isn't replacing the timing belt (but probably would do so while in there), but to replace valve stem seals. I know the job isn't that difficult, but I don't have the confidence in myself to mess around with anything that involves timing the motor. Brent @ IPS did the fenders. I watched him do the job using heat gun and all taking his time. Overall it took well over an hour to do both sides. Driver side came out fine, passenger side not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKilbourne Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 The main purpose isn't replacing the timing belt (but probably would do so while in there), but to replace valve stem seals. I know the job isn't that difficult, but I don't have the confidence in myself to mess around with anything that involves timing the motor. Brent @ IPS did the fenders. I watched him do the job using heat gun and all taking his time. Overall it took well over an hour to do both sides. Driver side came out fine, passenger side not so much. Damn. He did mine and it came out great. Like the others have said, IPA wipe then use a clear to "cover" the cracks. Of course, you could have the quarters completely repainted as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBAUCLAPlaya Posted June 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 Yep I was happy with the care he took in rolling them and when I left, both sides looked great. When I checked again a few days later, I found the passenger side that way, and definitely no signs of the tire actually hitting so I guess that's just what happens with 17 year old paint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltboostin Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 Brent @ IPS did the fenders. I watched him do the job using heat gun and all taking his time. Overall it took well over an hour to do both sides. Driver side came out fine, passenger side not so much. Eh-it is what it is then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBAUCLAPlaya Posted June 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 So I applied clear over the cracking paint last night in 3 separate layers. My only concern is the section in the second photo in my original post...the paint is already peeling a bit from the fender and I'm not certain the clear that I applied will actually seal this opening. I guess for this section, I may just have to chip away?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKIV Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 I was gonna role my rear fenders. Now I am second guessing myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBAUCLAPlaya Posted June 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Update...I talked with Brent at IPS and met him at the shop Thursday. He used a dremel and ground down the areas where the paint was cracking/splitting. Then applied POR-15 over the bare metal. We let dry for 2 hours or so then applied a coat of POR-15 grey primer. Brent did a great job carefully applying this stuff so you still can't see from the outside. I let the car dry overnight, then this weekend applied 2 layers of white touch up paint and 2 coats of clear. I must say, I HATE using the brushes they include with factory touch up paint. It's not the prettiest, but I feel much better now that the area is protected. I'll do my best to get pics up in the next few days. On a separate note, does anybody have experience doing valve stem seals on a Supra that would be willing to help me do this job? I'm going to order the parts from Curt @ Elmhurst and I have the garage and standard tools, but like I mentioned before I'm simply not comfortable doing this myself nor do I have the specialized tools for the job. Let me know...I'm located in Dublin right off Tuttle Crossing. Thanks, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBAUCLAPlaya Posted June 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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