Do you believe...

[99StockGT]

I'm a little late to the party...

 

Don't feel bad, Kerry and I often talk too much

[xlr8tn]

I have no idea where I stand. I can argue myself in and out of reasons to believe and not believe. I will say I'm not a religious person so I lean towards science with most stuff. I also think most things can be explained away. That being said it's probably silly to think of all the galaxies and planets out there we're the only beings and we're the most advanced. I almost think life has to exist elsewhere.....some less advanced and some more advanced.

[99StockGT]

I have no idea where I stand. I can argue myself in and out of reasons to believe and not believe. I will say I'm not a religious person so I lean towards science with most stuff. I also think most things can be explained away. That being said it's probably silly to think of all the galaxies and planets out there we're the only beings and we're the most advanced. I almost think life has to exist elsewhere.....some less advanced and some more advanced.

 

Generally speaking I think most people who can understand probability and math would agree with you, there are WAY too many places life could have taken hold out there in the cosmos. Statistically speaking it would be almost incredible if the universe WASN'T teeming with life of some sort or other. The big questions are

 

1) Are they in/from our neighborhood so that they would by chance notice the little blue dot emitting repeating radio waves? If so, do they have the technology/interest in visiting us but staying low key enough for our satellite/radar/monitoring systems to not readily notice them?

 

2) If life DID/DOES exist in the neighborhood, is it on the same time scale? The depth of time is CRAZY, we as upright thinking humans occupy such a small point in that line putting it into perspective is difficult. IF another civilization developed incredible technology but a million years ahead of us (still tiny on the scale) we would have no idea as most likely all signs of them will have disappeared by now.

 

https://www.npr.org/2016/11/22/502920622/watch-earths-history-play-out-on-a-football-field

[Geeto67]

I will add here, nobody says you have to commit to a position. Just be open to the possibility and receptive to whatever evidence is presented.

 

I have to be honest, I don't know why people think religion and aliens are opposing positions. I have never seen a religious text from any of the major religions that said we are the only creatures created by God. Quite the opposite actually.

[zeitgeist57]

I will add here, nobody says you have to commit to a position. Just be open to the possibility and receptive to whatever evidence is presented.

 

I have to be honest, I don't know why people think religion and aliens are opposing positions. I have never seen a religious text from any of the major religions that said we are the only creatures created by God. Quite the opposite actually.

 

Well said.

 

Growing up Roman Catholic, I distinctly remember hearing on the news (I remember going to a Boy Scout troop meeting in fact ) that the Pope had officially declared that it's OK to be Catholic with a biblical belief system and still acknowledge the potential for alien life. That would've been in the 1990s? I think it was Pope John Paul II?

 

Then, in high school NASA announced that they found evidence of microbial life from Mars on a meteorite.

 

There's undoubtedly life out there. Now...in the grand, GRAND scheme of the Universe, having the ability to detect signs of intelligent life AND re-communicate - let alone visit - said civilization are mathematically like hitting a bullet with another bullet while riding on a horse.

[buelliganx1]

I will add here, nobody says you have to commit to a position. Just be open to the possibility and receptive to whatever evidence is presented.

 

I have to be honest, I don't know why people think religion and aliens are opposing positions. I have never seen a religious text from any of the major religions that said we are the only creatures created by God. Quite the opposite actually.

 

I believe you are 100% underestimating the amount of ignorance in the world. We have people strapping bombs to their bodies in the name of religion, you don't think that introducing an intelligent alien lifeform that could have yet another form of religion to the mix will cause some unrest in the masses?

[zeitgeist57]

I believe you are 100% underestimating the amount of ignorance in the world. We have people strapping bombs to their bodies in the name of religion, you don't think that introducing an intelligent alien lifeform that could have yet another form of religion to the mix will cause some unrest in the masses?

 

In a way, I look at contact of intelligent alien life as a GREAT WAY of rethinking our faith and belief in the afterlife...isn't that what religion is rooted in anyway? That belief in the divine will favor us eternal consciousness?

 

Until I'm shown irrefutable evidence AGAINST a monotheistic belief structure, I'm proud to be behind both Judeo-Christianity and SETI.

[99StockGT]

In a way, I look at contact of intelligent alien life as a GREAT WAY of rethinking our faith and belief in the afterlife...isn't that what religion is rooted in anyway? That belief in the divine will favor us eternal consciousness?

 

Until I'm shown irrefutable evidence AGAINST a monotheistic belief structure, I'm proud to be behind both Judeo-Christianity and SETI.

 

As a non Judeo-Christian I have to say Pope JP II did a lot of great things moving the faith forward and accepting the findings of science. Realistically speaking most of the major western religions (that are monotheistic) would have absolutely no understanding of aliens and technology so there needs to kind of be a "Living Word" belief. Hell, we prove that constantly even just with our Constitution and that's just a couple hundred years old.

 

Unfortunately what we take as normal and understandable here in our safe comfortable existence in these wonderful United States of America are not the norm around the world. People rarely have the levels of education we do and even WE have tons of head in the sand people. Around the world the vast majority of people learn from their elders and religious leaders, not formal education and multi-perspective debate.

 

As someone who straddles both sides of this subject Clay, I pose a question to you. What would be the reaction if tomorrow a ship touched down anywhere in the western world and we meet a humanoid superior intelligence with the ability to communicate. Through conversation (hopefully) we learn their race had visited us deep in our past and been responsible for the genesis of modern man. How would that be handled in the Christian community? Now lets generally accept the Christian faiths have been slightly more accepting and less violent than several other major religions... how are these same revelations received by other major monotheistic faiths?

[RC K9]

I will add here, nobody says you have to commit to a position. Just be open to the possibility and receptive to whatever evidence is presented.

 

I have to be honest, I don't know why people think religion and aliens are opposing positions. I have never seen a religious text from any of the major religions that said we are the only creatures created by God. Quite the opposite actually.

 

This. People always put science and religion at odds. I have never seen them as opposing forces.

[Geeto67]

I believe you are 100% underestimating the amount of ignorance in the world. We have people strapping bombs to their bodies in the name of religion, you don't think that introducing an intelligent alien lifeform that could have yet another form of religion to the mix will cause some unrest in the masses?

 

I am not denying there is ignorance in the world, but I am optimistic that it is a much smaller population than Fox News would have us believe.

 

Will it cause unrest? I don't think it would on the scale that political destabilization is currently causing. And again I don't think it would be against us, but the other life form itself.

[zeitgeist57]

As someone who straddles both sides of this subject Clay, I pose a question to you. What would be the reaction if tomorrow a ship touched down anywhere in the western world and we meet a humanoid superior intelligence with the ability to communicate. Through conversation (hopefully) we learn their race had visited us deep in our past and been responsible for the genesis of modern man. How would that be handled in the Christian community? Now lets generally accept the Christian faiths have been slightly more accepting and less violent than several other major religions... how are these same revelations received by other major monotheistic faiths?

 

There's a lot of hypotheticals in that series of statements. You're ALWAYS going to have at least two main factions: those that believe in a new-found truth, and those who choose not to. Faith is essentially belief in something etherial while lacking physical proof/evidence. If these supreme beings brought some ancient tool or key that showed some answer - like unlocking secrets of the pyramids or show how Stonehenge properly aligns with the stars - then I'd be inclined to believe them.

[99StockGT]

There's a lot of hypotheticals in that series of statements. You're ALWAYS going to have at least two main factions: those that believe in a new-found truth, and those who choose not to. Faith is essentially belief in something etherial while lacking physical proof/evidence. If these supreme beings brought some ancient tool or key that showed some answer - like unlocking secrets of the pyramids or show how Stonehenge properly aligns with the stars - then I'd be inclined to believe them.

 

This is CR, where we bench race and brag on hypotheticals!

 

So say they DID bring with them irrefutable proof, what then?

[zeitgeist57]

So say they DID bring with them irrefutable proof, what then?

 

Playing this silliness out....I'd certainly consider the evidence presented and make a decision in what to believe in going forward. It's 2017: there are still flat-Earthers and anti-vaccinators out there :no:

 

I would never begrudge my Judeo-Christian upbringing, "Golden Rule" and "John 3:16" teachings to love thy neighbor and such. If this superior civilization truly seeded humanity then I would certainly assume they were back to show us more love and support, not to kill us off!

[Geeto67]

42

[99StockGT]

Playing this silliness out....I'd certainly consider the evidence presented and make a decision in what to believe in going forward. It's 2017: there are still flat-Earthers and anti-vaccinators out there :no:

 

I would never begrudge my Judeo-Christian upbringing, "Golden Rule" and "John 3:16" teachings to love thy neighbor and such. If this superior civilization truly seeded humanity then I would certainly assume they were back to show us more love and support, not to kill us off!

 

I feel like this is more of thinking with your head than reacting with your heart kind of response. Maybe you have more faith in the majority of mankind than I do. I've met far too many people outside our bubble of mildly+ educated white folk that really give me pause for concern.

 

As the saying goes, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow." - Agent K

 

Now on to another part of this subject, the term UFO. So as a UFO that does NOT necessarily mean it's Aliens from another star system, what what other explanations make sense? Some sort of highly advanced race from our deep oceans? Hollow earth species? Incredibly advanced human civilization with technology we don't even understand? Some rich kid with a highly modified radio controlled plane?

[Geeto67]

I feel like this is more of thinking with your head than reacting with your heart kind of response. Maybe you have more faith in the majority of mankind than I do. I've met far too many people outside our bubble of mildly+ educated white folk that really give me pause for concern.

 

As the saying goes, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow." - Agent K

 

Couple of things:

 

Religious Extremists, of the kind that you are concerned about are already pretty disenfranchised in society and they aren't exactly burning down the country. If they suddenly found themselves faced with Aliens with proof of something I expect they would withdraw more rather than burn and loot the malls.

 

In other countries where we are see religious extremism weaponized, a lot of that is dependent on political unrest in those areas than pure religiously motivated - and the discovery of benevolent Aliens would have very little effect on any increase.

 

Columbus did not discover or prove the world was round. People thought it was round in theory as far back as the 6th Century BC and were able to prove it as far back as the 3rd century BC. That's 2000+ years not 500. Most people believed the earth was round prior to Columbus or Magellan, it's just popular to think they "discovered it" because europeans mostly wrote history and both those voyages did all evidence to the whole pile that already existed. And that is kind of my point - yes there are flat earthers, and zealouts, and others, but the majority of people are calm, rational, sane, and probably have been already prepared for this by 100+ years of pop culture.

 

Now on to another part of this subject, the term UFO. So as a UFO that does NOT necessarily mean it's Aliens from another star system, what what other explanations make sense? Some sort of highly advanced race from our deep oceans? Hollow earth species? Incredibly advanced human civilization with technology we don't even understand? Some rich kid with a highly modified radio controlled plane?

 

you left out weather phenomenon, atmospheric distortion, regular aircraft being observed from a different perspective than thought at the time (optical illusion), I mean there are practical explanations as well.

[BStowers023]

I'm going with the UFO were humans time traveling back from the year 2500 to watch season 43 episode 1 of the great series "United States" starring Donald Trump.

[99StockGT]

you left out weather phenomenon, atmospheric distortion, regular aircraft being observed from a different perspective than thought at the time (optical illusion), I mean there are practical explanations as well.

 

Specifically speaking about the footage I linked to at the beginning of this thread which do you think applies?

[Geeto67]

Specifically speaking about the footage I linked to at the beginning of this thread which do you think applies?

 

I haven't the first clue, and honestly that's what's really exciting about it: the potential it has to be something is greater than what it actually is.

 

this was my point earlier: why does it have to be one particular something? Why can't it just remain a mystery that we are aching to solve? Why do I have to close down my thinking to one line of speculation when there are so many others for me to be open to.

 

Maybe sometime in the future we will find out or maybe we wont, but for right now not knowing holds it's own excitement.

[99StockGT]

you left out weather phenomenon, atmospheric distortion, regular aircraft being observed from a different perspective than thought at the time (optical illusion), I mean there are practical explanations as well.

 

That's why I'm trying to pointedly ask, which if these could it be? Atmospheric distortion? Hmmm nope it moves freely and is targetable by radar. Weather phenomenon? Again, object is able to be targeted by aircraft gunnery sites, clouds will not draw a site like that nor does it have any link to surrounding weather. Regular aircraft? Nothing in the known inventory of the US or our rival military powers has the abilities this craft displayed. The acceleration and turning at speed are far beyond anything our F/A 18s are capable of, so at BEST this is a "black back" flying object, hence it gets the UFO tag.

 

However, without a noticeable propulsion system and the lack of any wings to provide positive lift it defies the laws of physics which human kind exists on. You can also clearly hear from experienced USAF fighter pilots the short clip on their expressions keeping in mind that all of the more technical and classified information is NOT included in the clip released by the DoD.

 

I get the point of keeping our minds open, and I'm not asking someone to lock themselves into a certain view point. What I AM asking is break it down based on belief, scientific knowledge, and the evidence that is mounting. What CAN it be, because quite clearly this isn't some random cloud with mass that is traveling against the wind pattern and substantive enough for targeting computers to look for it. So, thoughts?

[zeitgeist57]

Be careful, Austin.

 

If you cannot get enough evidence on your own to present a strong hypothesis, you'll come across as a nutjob.

[Geeto67]

You are trying to narrow it down which is kind of the opposite of being open to it being anything - and is a start down the road to confirmation bias.

 

I don't know what you see but I see a really grainy video with a black blob in the middle of it. I don't even know that I see enough that I can call it an aircraft. I don't know where you get this stuff about the surrounding weather conditions but....I think you are trying too hard to look for something.

[RedRocket1647545505]

nvm Edited December 22, 2017 by RedRocket
not worth it

[xlr8tn]

You are trying to narrow it down which is kind of the opposite of being open to it being anything - and is a start down the road to confirmation bias.

 

I don't know what you see but I see a really grainy video with a black blob in the middle of it. I don't even know that I see enough that I can call it an aircraft. I don't know where you get this stuff about the surrounding weather conditions but....I think you are trying too hard to look for something.

 

That's kinda how I see it. A pretty nice video if shot with a toaster but other than that it sucks and I can't tell what I'm supposed to be looking at. I mean cell phones have 8-12 mp cameras that also record hd video and yet we get this trash from a billion dollar airplane?

[BStowers023]

Why are all UFO sighting videos taken with a low grade Potato?