Moto-Brian Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Ok...I'll get Monte to chime in if he can get a chance.1) Track days are essentially a deal where you better have REALLY good insurance. Anyone know what happened at Barber this year? Let's just say that you really need to know more than someone who runs a few events... Insurance is expensive and honestly, if OR has it's name attached to it in any way, can be pursued if they can prove neglect or similar. That's a big bill and if you feel like asking, Monte can give you details...2) If you want to do an OR day, Ohio makes sense, no? Mid-Ohio isn't going to be a lucrative deal. High cost for rental and when you provide YOUR insurance, you are looking at a VERY high cost to do business.My suggestion is Nelson. But, if you want to do something out of state, it can be done. Kenny's deal is primarily with Putnam. Most guys establish schedules (going on as we speak and most are completed by this time) for the upcoming year and the tracks have established available dates. It isn't a deal where you get to pick and especially if you are a new guy wanting to do one event, you get the left overs after established venues get their dates...Kenny's deal is much different than our deal. He runs a good program and in fact, most of his CONTROL riders are part of our BlueGrass crew for next year. They are good riders and good guys and Kenny is a great dude. However, if you want classroom and one on one instruction, we provide that service and have been doing it since we started. We are the top rated track day company for a reason. Our staff members are accomplished riders that have been through our system and understand what we want and what is expected. We have coaches and instructors in our system. Control riders watch and make sure things go smoothly. We teach and assist... Different and not better than what Kenny does. Only if you want that type of thing. Some people like Kenny's way and some like our way...We also do corporate events and have been asked by big companies to run their track days. Indy Ducati as an example of a smaller company and Tucker Rocky as an example of a larger one. They come to us to run their events and know how we do things.3) I will ask Monte if there is something we can do. Personally, I would like to see it happen at a venue we run at and maybe we can work on a few options as far as tracks go. But, the cost of track rentals varies. $9500 may sound inviting, but realize that you will have to pay the running org money to run the event and when you break that down into say, 100 riders, that's easy to think that $100 each will cover it. You then add insurance into that mix and things get really tough. Providing food like most venues we run? More money... Providing a rain policy? You can forget about the minimal 2% rate of refunding credit card sign ups which are a majority of how people pay vs. at track...In the end, you need to think about where will work. Only Ben can tell us that. So, Ohio or other areas?I will talk with Monte and find out if we can work this out... I think we can do something at a smaller track like Putnam, Nelson, Beaver or Blue Grass... I just need to pitch it to him and see.I think having 75 riders from OR is possible and obtainable, but if it is just going to be a show up and ride in a group, you need to understand that will push a lot of people away. One reason why STT is so successful is that we cater to the beginner track day rider. The Novice program is awesome and we have had a lot of success with it. How we run the other groups is done differently as well. I think when you look at the big picture, you really need a solid group to run your show... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubguy85 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Ok...I'll get Monte to chime in if he can get a chance.1) Track days are essentially a deal where you better have REALLY good insurance. Anyone know what happened at Barber this year? Let's just say that you really need to know more than someone who runs a few events... Insurance is expensive and honestly, if OR has it's name attached to it in any way, can be pursued if they can prove neglect or similar. That's a big bill and if you feel like asking, Monte can give you details...2) If you want to do an OR day, Ohio makes sense, no? Mid-Ohio isn't going to be a lucrative deal. High cost for rental and when you provide YOUR insurance, you are looking at a VERY high cost to do business.My suggestion is Nelson. But, if you want to do something out of state, it can be done. Kenny's deal is primarily with Putnam. Most guys establish schedules (going on as we speak and most are completed by this time) for the upcoming year and the tracks have established available dates. It isn't a deal where you get to pick and especially if you are a new guy wanting to do one event, you get the left overs after established venues get their dates...Kenny's deal is much different than our deal. He runs a good program and in fact, most of his CONTROL riders are part of our BlueGrass crew for next year. They are good riders and good guys and Kenny is a great dude. However, if you want classroom and one on one instruction, we provide that service and have been doing it since we started. We are the top rated track day company for a reason. Our staff members are accomplished riders that have been through our system and understand what we want and what is expected. We have coaches and instructors in our system. Control riders watch and make sure things go smoothly. We teach and assist... Different and not better than what Kenny does. Only if you want that type of thing. Some people like Kenny's way and some like our way...We also do corporate events and have been asked by big companies to run their track days. Indy Ducati as an example of a smaller company and Tucker Rocky as an example of a larger one. They come to us to run their events and know how we do things.3) I will ask Monte if there is something we can do. Personally, I would like to see it happen at a venue we run at and maybe we can work on a few options as far as tracks go. But, the cost of track rentals varies. $9500 may sound inviting, but realize that you will have to pay the running org money to run the event and when you break that down into say, 100 riders, that's easy to think that $100 each will cover it. You then add insurance into that mix and things get really tough. Providing food like most venues we run? More money... Providing a rain policy? You can forget about the minimal 2% rate of refunding credit card sign ups which are a majority of how people pay vs. at track...In the end, you need to think about where will work. Only Ben can tell us that. So, Ohio or other areas?I will talk with Monte and find out if we can work this out... I think we can do something at a smaller track like Putnam, Nelson, Beaver or Blue Grass... I just need to pitch it to him and see.I think having 75 riders from OR is possible and obtainable, but if it is just going to be a show up and ride in a group, you need to understand that will push a lot of people away. One reason why STT is so successful is that we cater to the beginner track day rider. The Novice program is awesome and we have had a lot of success with it. How we run the other groups is done differently as well. I think when you look at the big picture, you really need a solid group to run your show...Absolutely! All very good advice... Like stated above this is just brainstorming etc... Maybe we could go about it like this.... Have a STT track day that the first sign ups available are only OR members allowed...If we fill up the field, then the event is closed...If we have 20 30 40 50 spots left, then open it up to the public....How does that sound?But the whole idea of this is to try and encourage OR members to do track days, get a slightly cheaper track day out of it, and enjoy other OR members as we ride on the track together and learn and teach on another! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CbrGirl Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Ok...I'll get Monte to chime in if he can get a chance.1) Track days are essentially a deal where you better have REALLY good insurance. Anyone know what happened at Barber this year? Let's just say that you really need to know more than someone who runs a few events... Insurance is expensive and honestly, if OR has it's name attached to it in any way, can be pursued if they can prove neglect or similar. That's a big bill and if you feel like asking, Monte can give you details...Thanks for the in put but with that point being made I wouldn't want OhioRiders' name anywhere near this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I don't think putting some competition into the mix would hurt. We can approach all the major track instruction organizations in the area to submit proposals. Just off the top of my head: STT, NESBA, fasttrax, apex2apex, curve chasersIf we can get a roll call of interested riders, acceptable locations, and decide whether we're ok with weekday or it should be a weekend day or a whole weekend, that should be enough info for the orgs to come up with a proposal.I'd definitely be in. I'd suggest a whole weekend (to learn the track moarr bettar). For a track, I'd suggest one of the following:Midohio, Bluegrass, BeaveRun, Grattan, Putnam, Nelsons, Gingerman (in that order of preference)I've ridden with STT and Fasttrax this year, so just based on my limited experience, I'd say I'd lean towards STT if they can be competitive on price. Not to offend anyone, but in my narrow minded opinion, STT provided the superior instruction and management.I've also heard that NESBA has a very high level of quality for instruction. I've not heard much about apex2apex nor curve chasers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Id be concerned that there would be to many people show up just because they feel the need to be part of it because of it being an OR track day that have no businees being anywhere near coshocton let alone a racetrack sounds like a recipe for disaster I think setting up a group discount on a stt , fasttrax or nesba day would be a far better idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxr750girl Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I would love to do a couple track days next year, but I don't think its a great idea to list this as an Ohioriders track day! Too many things could happen and could fall back on the owners of the website! I think its a great idea to get a discount if you are an OR member, but not because its an Ohioriders Track day. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubguy85 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Id be concerned that there would be to many people show up just because they feel the need to be part of it because of it being an OR track day that have no businees being anywhere near coshocton let alone a racetrack sounds like a recipe for disaster I think setting up a group discount on a stt , fasttrax or nesba day would be a far better ideaPlease don't take this the wrong way, BUUUTTTTTTTT I've never heard a more ignorant statement in my life... Thats where the misconseption of "the track" is... Especially with an organization like stt!Coshocton is WAY dumber and more dangerous than a novice group track session with instructors... There are usually no passing unless groups pass, no passing in turns etc... Its truly riders training on a track... I've literally seen men and woman who have been riding 2 wheels for like 2 months get on a track and dramatically improve their riding skills in a safe manner... I would encourage ANYONE to get on a track no matter what skill level! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubguy85 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I would love to do a couple track days next year, but I don't think its a great idea to list this as an Ohioriders track day! Too many things could happen and could fall back on the owners of the website! I think its a great idea to get a discount if you are an OR member, but not because its an Ohioriders Track day. Just my opinion.Agreed, but I think you guys are looking at this the wrong way... Indy Ducati, Commonwealth, Curve Chasers, and many other small organizations obviously don't want to be "sued" either...They sign waivers and have the insurance and its fine...I think the poker run is WAY more dangerous liability wise, then a track day...Thats why we sign waivers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CbrGirl Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Agreed, but I think you guys are looking at this the wrong way... Indy Ducati, Commonwealth, Curve Chasers, and many other small organizations obviously don't want to be "sued" either...They sign waivers and have the insurance and its fine...I think the poker run is WAY more dangerous liability wise, then a track day...Thats why we sign waivers...You paying for the insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 You paying for the insurance? he prolly wouldnt even show up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubguy85 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 You paying for the insurance?Depends on what track and what the insurance the track is... But sure..as long as its included in the track price, and people sign waivers... I'm in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubguy85 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 he prolly wouldnt even show up Not sure what that means.... But... Have I ever even met you? Sorry I didn't attend your infamous coshocton ride??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 no youve not met me hence the comment ive been to numerous events that you said you were in for and never show ...... and lighten up your getting worked up over somthing that isnt gonna happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubguy85 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 no youve not met me hence the comment ive been to numerous events that you said you were in for and never show ...... and lighten up your getting worked up over somthing that isnt gonna happennumerous? hmm... i go to stuff when i'm free, and don't when Im busy...Not getting worked up about anything...I'll do track days regardless...I just think it would be cool to get people from OR at the track and designate a day...IF that means an OR track day great...if that is an STT day that we as ohio riders plan to sign up at and call "our day" great... or if its a curve chasers event i really push people from OR to attend... That will be great... Doesn't matter to me...Just tryin to get more people to experience the trrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 i think at this point, we oughta let the owner(s) (or whoever will be directly implicated to OR as a corporate/business entity or otherwise) decide whether they want to go through the trouble or concern of being held liable if something went wrong.just thinking out loud, I'd think that if a track instruction org (STT, NESBA, etc) was hired to manage it, or better yet, if people simply coordinated to sign up for a day/weekend en mass in advance (to ensure getting in together), the level of involvement and liability should be the same as when a group ride is arranged on the forum, or a large event is held under the OR name.it'd be a different story if OR simply rented a track and tried to manage/run the track day by itself. that would just be asking for trouble.to be sure, maybe Monte or someone who is a law professional could pipe up and give us some input regarding liability in the various scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Let's just get everyone to promise not to sue.... lulz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubguy85 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 I think an "OR.net trackday" is less feasible than a group of OR.net peeps signing up for an STT day. We won't get enough participation to make it worth anybody's time or money. Unless this has already been addressed.. then' date=' I'll just STFU. [/quote']Its been addressed... But if everyone is set on it being STT, then we shoudl work with them, and see if they would make it say "ok July 5th or whatever date is going to be the OR track day date... Make sign ups for like 1 month completely closed to the public and see if we can get a full field of JUST US... if we can not, then open it up to the public, so we can for sure get all of the people we want in to the track, and atleast have as much participation as possible! Hows that sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubguy85 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 I don't think that sounds good for Monte. I don't 'know' Monte that well' date=' but I'd think he's smart enough to shy away from that idea. (I would, at least) If we don't come through, then he's lost a month of recruiting riders. If he'd do it that's cool, but I wouldn't be offended if he said, "No way in hell!"[/quote']Not if we picked a date now, had the OR people sign up before its even on the STT site... BOOYA! problem solved...Geez everyone is so pessimistic about this... I don't think its THAT hard to get something going like this!Like I said...I have a friend who runs his own track day.... it takes some work but its not the "impossible" like u guys are making it seem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubguy85 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 I'm not doubting my ability to commit. I'm doubting all of you guys. haha touche ... But trust me..I'm in! and thats why we would commit and pay EARLY... so then its set! Obviously there would be an early payment discount! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Agreed, but I think you guys are looking at this the wrong way... Indy Ducati, Commonwealth, Curve Chasers, and many other small organizations obviously don't want to be "sued" either...They sign waivers and have the insurance and its fine...I think the poker run is WAY more dangerous liability wise, then a track day...Thats why we sign waivers...Again, you're not really in full understanding as to what is involved in these events. Waivers don't mean a whol lot when you get sent into court for a civil suit trying to show there was neglegence. If it is shown and can be used to convince a group of people, you can loose a lot. Indy Ducati I know has STT run their day. Curve Chasers is a group like STT only a lot smaller. Basically, you are lumping in groups that are totally different...In the end, what I think needs to be done is not so much a "lowest bid wins" deal. You get what you pay for and if it is going to be a deal where the org that whores themselves out the best wins, STT is going to bow out as i know Monte won't even consider it.If interested, I can ask and propose a deal to be created for OR riders. We can set it up to where you have to have a certain amount of posts and if you are a member, you get a decent discount. We essentially organize a BIG group event and leave it as an STT event. There would be other people involved that would be coming like regular customers, but if you had that magic number of riders, we MIGHT be able to do something more intimate.There's a cost involved with ANY group you are going to have run the event. That's a give me. That's why GSXRgirl's idea of having it be a planned event and get as many OR riders there is better than calling it an OR track day. It leads to too many possible issues if something goes wrong. It only takes once...If you guys are interested, I can ask. If it is going to be the best price wins or whomever pulls their pants down the furthest, we are out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubguy85 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Again, you're not really in full understanding as to what is involved in these events. Waivers don't mean a whol lot when you get sent into court for a civil suit trying to show there was neglegence. If it is shown and can be used to convince a group of people, you can loose a lot. Indy Ducati I know has STT run their day. Curve Chasers is a group like STT only a lot smaller. Basically, you are lumping in groups that are totally different...In the end, what I think needs to be done is not so much a "lowest bid wins" deal. You get what you pay for and if it is going to be a deal where the org that whores themselves out the best wins, STT is going to bow out as i know Monte won't even consider it.If interested, I can ask and propose a deal to be created for OR riders. We can set it up to where you have to have a certain amount of posts and if you are a member, you get a decent discount. We essentially organize a BIG group event and leave it as an STT event. There would be other people involved that would be coming like regular customers, but if you had that magic number of riders, we MIGHT be able to do something more intimate.There's a cost involved with ANY group you are going to have run the event. That's a give me. That's why GSXRgirl's idea of having it be a planned event and get as many OR riders there is better than calling it an OR track day. It leads to too many possible issues if something goes wrong. It only takes once...If you guys are interested, I can ask. If it is going to be the best price wins or whomever pulls their pants down the furthest, we are out...STT runs 1 of their days... they have other ones that has nothing to do with STT... and cuve chasers is nothing but a guy who wanted to do track days and puts it on...its not an organization...it is my friend who puts the money up and people pay him...only 2 track days a year...I'm not arguing with you, but I'm not completely retarded when it comes to this...I understand we have to watch OR's back, and would take the necessary insurance to make sure everyone is covered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubguy85 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 And no..its not "the best price wins" STT is a sponsor and we want to support them...But what i was proposing in the first post wasnt for people to make money..it was just to have a track day... But if STT is willing to help us out...lets make it a STT event... Those are my fav events anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Its been addressed... But if everyone is set on it being STT, then we shoudl work with them, and see if they would make it say "ok July 5th or whatever date is going to be the OR track day date... Make sign ups for like 1 month completely closed to the public and see if we can get a full field of JUST US... if we can not, then open it up to the public, so we can for sure get all of the people we want in to the track, and atleast have as much participation as possible! Hows that sound?Again, that's not how the system works... Track day venues sign up days (like I said, pretty much is in concrete at this point and finalized come Dec...) well in advance and pay to essentially warranty that the organization will be there and provide that day paid. If STT is going to do a special day, that's up to Ben and anyone who is owner at OR. If they want to do an organized venue like I mentioned above where they come in on an established date, we can offer a discount POSSIBLY (I DO NOT speak for Monte) to qualified OR riders... We do it a lot with places and usually, it is towards the end of the season as the venues are more open.There are a LOT of possibilities and I will discuss with Monte. Just relax and wait and see, please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 STT runs 1 of their days... they have other ones that has nothing to do with STT... and cuve chasers is nothing but a guy who wanted to do track days and puts it on...its not an organization...it is my friend who puts the money up and people pay him...only 2 track days a year...I'm not arguing with you, but I'm not completely retarded when it comes to this...I understand we have to watch OR's back, and would take the necessary insurance to make sure everyone is covered!Actually, Kenny's deal is an organization and there is insurance and such taken care of. It's not simply a guy who rents the track and has his buddies come and ride. It's a deal where he may break even and probably does at the prices he offers, but he still needs to provide insurance. One guy gets killed and it becomes a serious issue if he doesn't... I know he does. Monte and Kenny know each other well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Man i deff will go to this event! We could deff help you sell a day out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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