Ohio Motorcyclist SHOT by police

[RR_MIKE]

the whole deal is pretty fucked up.. a few of the guys in our toledo club know him..and speaking of being a ccw holder,he was actually from what they've been say'n,hence maybe some of the overreaction on the cops part if he got a chance to run his tag..but i dont see how he did....unless he was following them for a while before the cam was activated..and trust me,i am in noway condoning what the cop did..he's an overreacting(x-military police) trigger happy cop that should be bent over hard and get the max,instead of plea bargaining down felonious assault with a gun spec..it should be attempted murder on top of the other if ya ask me..

[NinjaNick]

The thread title is disturbing.

I figured a board member got shot at 1st too.

Where do you get that the officer "did what he should have up to the point of shooting"? The entire "pursuit" lasted a block.

I agree. It wasn't even a pursuit. They took off probably not knowing the cop was behind them. That wasn't a pursuit that was them slowing up their bikes after the acceleration with their shitty brakes. The other guy probably panicked(sp?), looked in mirrors and realized he ran out of stopping room. It was just a simple routine speeding stop to me. No need for anything but resting your hand on your holster. Gun did NOT need drawn. I say an eye for an eye for the stupid cop.

[rawlins87]

Gun did NOT need drawn. I say an eye for an eye for the stupid cop.

+1

[fusion]

That's messed up.

[Cbosman]

If we learn anything it is to always keep your hands plainly visible until instructed to do otherwise. Accidents can and will happen and I dont want it to be me.

This sounds to me like we should walk on egg shells because there are a bunch of trigger happy cops out there. So not only do I have cages making attempts on my life but my next random harrassing officer pulling me over can just start shooting at me.

I understand that not all cops are asses, but when you pull your gun, you have already made a disicion to shoot. This cop was premature in his disicion to pull his gun, if you feel the situation warrents it, why not buy time and wait for backup in order to control the situation better.

[Casper]

It's hard to convince people the police aren't so bad when shit like this happens. Just like the squids wheelieing up 75 giving all sportbike riders a bad name, cops like this give all cops a bad name.

If I were to ride through Ottawa Hills and cop flipped on his lights, I'd chance it and run to the next jurisdiction.

[Aerik]

We give police officers special privileges and powers (the ability to carry guns everywhere, pull people over, etc.) so that they can perform the job we need them to do. In exchange for those privileges, however, they do need to be held to a higher standard, for exactly this reason. A janitor makes a stupid decision or loses his temper, and maybe the floor's not clean. A cop does it, and someone gets killed or paralyzed.

They should put this scumbag under the jail.

[Disclaimer]

I have a "Bullet free" endorsement on my license.

It's in between the motorcycle endorsement and the corrective lenses restriction. You guys might wanna look into that.

[kreator]

This sounds to me like we should walk on egg shells because there are a bunch of trigger happy cops out there. So not only do I have cages making attempts on my life but my next random harrassing officer pulling me over can just start shooting at me.

I understand that not all cops are asses, but when you pull your gun, you have already made a disicion to shoot. This cop was premature in his disicion to pull his gun, if you feel the situation warrents it, why not buy time and wait for backup in order to control the situation better.

I understand how you feel and this cop will be sent up the river. Whitey is right though, keep your hands visible at all times, if you get pulled over keep your hands on the wheel you will see that the cop will appriciate that, I mean he has a family too and there are alot of crazy's out there.

The only thing I am a little confused about is being an ex MP myself well before the CCW laws I would actually feel more comfortable seeing that someone has a CCW when running the plate. I have not talked to any cops about this, but I would think that someone with a CCW would be less of a threat.

[Kosmo]

Cops should only have batons like in UK...........

If you assault a cop, you get a bullet in your neck without trial.......

[redrocket04]

So, according to this, the other biker was drunk, and they were both traveling through the village at high speeds, etc. This just looks worse and worse for the cop.

http://www.toledoonthemove.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=320252

[alab32]

Please help me understand your thought process. A motorcyclist is sitting on a bike where he can turn his torso approximately 90 degrees and The cop would be vulnerable. Isn't he sitting in his patrol car where he could duck behind a shitload of steel, plasic, glass and such instead of outside of the patrol car with nothing but his bullet proof vest? I'm confused by your thinking. If I thought someone might take a shot at me I would rather be surrounded by other stuff that may absorb some energy of the bullet or deflect it completely before it hits me instead of being an easy target approaching the subject in the open.

I will do my best to help you understand it since you asked. A bullet can go through a car door, a car windshield, a car window, a bumper and various other things the cop is surrounded by in his patrol car. If, like I stated before, the assailant pulls a gun, the officer sitting in the car has nothing but a windshield between him and a bullet to the chest or head, which just so happen to be the main targets of opportunity when shooting a weapon at someone. Yes, he can duck like you said, but all the assailant has to do now is walk over to the car and shoot through one of the windows, while the officer is still stuck in his vehicle having a difficult time removing his weapon from his holster because it is hard to pull it out while sitting down with a seat belt on. Especially if you are ducking to your right which is causing you to lay on your weapon, unless you are left handed of course. Therefore, if the cop steps out to the side of his car and orders the person to do something, he can then retreat to the rear of the vehicle if necessary where there is a better chance of him getting cover from the possibility of gun fire. This also depends on how far away the cop is from the bike. If he leaves a lot of room, I mean like 8 car lengths, then maybe I can see the officer choosing to use the mic to direct the vehicle operator what to do from the patrol car.

[John]

Good job Newb, trying to stir up some shit with stupid comments. You can't be serious with what you just wrote. Just because a few cops make bad decisions as we all do on occasion, that does not mean that all police should not carry guns. If you were a police officer would you want to confront violent criminals with pepper spray and a taser? I doubt it. Deadly force is warranted in many situations. This shooting is the exception, not the norm. Are you a recent transplant from California or someplace like that?

you know, it used to be that cops DIDNT carry guns. they were not allowed to because people didnt want an armed para-military unit waltzing around the streets. if a cop needed help, armed citizens would come to their aid.

[siggywiggy]

The ccw gun laws for a resident is: you have to be in fear of your life, and basically the last resort before you shoot someone. I think the same goes for PO's. This PO was not in fear of his life. The biker, even though his hand may or may not have been rested on his thigh or may or may not have moved, did nothing to make the cop fear for his life.

just my 2cents

[Fonzie]

It's hard to convince people the police aren't so bad when shit like this happens. Just like the squids wheelieing up 75 giving all sportbike riders a bad name, cops like this give all cops a bad name.

If I were to ride through Ottawa Hills and cop flipped on his lights, I'd chance it and run to the next jurisdiction.

Another epic fail for the Ottawa Hills police department. I think they've got matching black eyes now

In my opinion, which means nothing to some I am sure, that would be a bad idea for the cop. He is in a very vulnerable position sitting in his patrol car. If you were to have a gun and pull it quickly the officer would have zero reaction time. But again, this is just my opinion and... sorry for the thread jack.

I will do my best to help you understand it since you asked. A bullet can go through a car door, a car windshield, a car window, a bumper and various other things the cop is surrounded by in his patrol car. If, like I stated before, the assailant pulls a gun, the officer sitting in the car has nothing but a windshield between him and a bullet to the chest or head, which just so happen to be the main targets of opportunity when shooting a weapon at someone. Yes, he can duck like you said, but all the assailant has to do now is walk over to the car and shoot through one of the windows, while the officer is still stuck in his vehicle having a difficult time removing his weapon from his holster because it is hard to pull it out while sitting down with a seat belt on. Especially if you are ducking to your right which is causing you to lay on your weapon, unless you are left handed of course. Therefore, if the cop steps out to the side of his car and orders the person to do something, he can then retreat to the rear of the vehicle if necessary where there is a better chance of him getting cover from the possibility of gun fire. This also depends on how far away the cop is from the bike. If he leaves a lot of room, I mean like 8 car lengths, then maybe I can see the officer choosing to use the mic to direct the vehicle operator what to do from the patrol car.

I'm gonna disagree with your logic here. The biker is completely exposed & vulnerable out in the open.... not the LEO

The cop always has the option to drop down behind his door or fender for cover, while still keeping a bead on the perp

I wish this guy'd go to jail for as long as the biker is paralyzed. When he can walk & resume a normal life.... So can former ofcr Tom White

[roosterracing68]

I gotta Agree with Fonzie ............Jail time for the LEO and I am a LEO

[dsump]

I just saw this video and was waiting to see the officer in the background start shooting, but when I saw the guy in front of the cruiser get shot, I was taken back. You definitely have to be there to get a feel for the situation, but this video does not do any justice for the Officer. I'd love to read the case file on this.

[alab32]

Another epic fail for the Ottawa Hills police department. I think they've got matching black eyes now

I'm gonna disagree with your logic here. The biker is completely exposed & vulnerable out in the open.... not the LEO

The cop always has the option to drop down behind his door or fender for cover, while still keeping a bead on the perp

Yes, the biker is completely exposed. But the officer is supposed to be in the position of advantage at all times. The officer is not at a position of advantage sitting behind the wheel if the perp starts shooting. The biker would be able to move in any direction, including behind the car where the officer has ZERO field of view while crouched behind a dash, thus causing a very unsafe position for the officer.

I gotta Agree with Fonzie ............Jail time for the LEO and I am a LEO

Concur with both... Still....

[TimTheAzn]

that video was disturbing. i respect police and understand that they are here to protect and serve and I understand that it is a dangerous job, but that was completely unnecessary. He deserves jail time.

[obesityrules]

Yes, the biker is completely exposed. But the officer is supposed to be in the position of advantage at all times. The officer is not at a position of advantage sitting behind the wheel if the perp starts shooting. The biker would be able to move in any direction, including behind the car where the officer has ZERO field of view while crouched behind a dash, thus causing a very unsafe position for the officer.

Concur with both... Still....

am i missing something here? if at any time the officer seen a firearm he could simply put it in drive and run over the perp. or he could put it in reverse, take cover and return fire. i really have not seen much logic in your argument

[Fonzie]

am i missing something here? if at any time the officer seen a firearm he could simply put it in drive and run over the perp. or he could put it in reverse, take cover and return fire. i really have not seen much logic in your argument

Another excellent point I didn't even think about

[alab32]

am i missing something here? if at any time the officer seen a firearm he could simply put it in drive and run over the perp. or he could put it in reverse, take cover and return fire. i really have not seen much logic in your argument

An officer will use his vehicle in a last resort especially since you have to have yourself up and looking out the window to see who you are running over while they have a gun pointed at you. Doing that doesnt seem odd to you? You are going to rely on the car to run the person over, when that perp can step to the side and shoot you through the side window... instead of standing outside of the car with your gun pointed back at him? Since when has putting yourself in an enclosed position that is not bullet proof and restricts your movement and abilities to get to your weapons been the best place to hide from bullets? I would rather be outside of the car where if the assailant does shoot at me it has to go through two layers of the car to get to me and I can move to better cover/concealment if necessary.

[Fonzie]

The cop always has the option to drop down behind his door or fender for cover, while still keeping a bead on the perp

... instead of standing outside of the car with your gun pointed back at him? Since when has putting yourself in an enclosed position that is not bullet proof and restricts your movement and abilities to get to your weapons been the best place to hide from bullets? I would rather be outside of the car where if the assailant does shoot at me it has to go through two layers of the car to get to me and I can move to better cover/concealment if necessary.

I believe that's what I described above.... Tom White could've done exactly what I said, without ever firing a shot once he realized the biker did NOT have a gun, let alone was drawing it out on him

[obesityrules]

An officer will use his vehicle in a last resort especially since you have to have yourself up and looking out the window to see who you are running over while they have a gun pointed at you. Doing that doesnt seem odd to you? You are going to rely on the car to run the person over, when that perp can step to the side and shoot you through the side window... instead of standing outside of the car with your gun pointed back at him? Since when has putting yourself in an enclosed position that is not bullet proof and restricts your movement and abilities to get to your weapons been the best place to hide from bullets? I would rather be outside of the car where if the assailant does shoot at me it has to go through two layers of the car to get to me and I can move to better cover/concealment if necessary.

did you even watch the video?

[alab32]

did you even watch the video?

If you were around for the start of this part of the convo... it had nothing to do with the OP. And yes, I did watch the video...