E85 gas in Ohio?

[usafstud]

Hi,

This may be a real dumb question, but I just moved to this part of the country. Are all fuel in OH, IL, KY, and etc only E85 fuel? Is this the norm? Is it safe for my modern bikes, and vintage 2 stroke bikes? How about for vintage cars?

Thanks

[jporter12]

E85 isn't found much of anywhere. Almost all gasoline is E10, supposed to be up to 10% ethanol, but many have reason to believe that it's more like 15-25%. I don't doubt them, and I would prefer no Ethanol in my gasoline.

[Jst2fst]

So can you use E85 in older sport bikes like mine?

[max power]

So can you use E85 in older sport bikes like mine?

No!! No E85 in motorcycles, unless they were made by GM.

Seriously though, bikes were not designed to run on ethanol. Dont do it.

[jporter12]

So can you use E85 in older sport bikes like mine?

Even if you could, why would you want to? Cheaper? Check your MPG and re-think that. I won't even start into the politics, and other economic effects of it.

Ethanol is not good for bikes. Especially carbureted bikes.

[max power]

Ethanol is bad for rubber things, like those in your carbs.

[Jst2fst]

Gotcha, never hurts to ask....

[usafstud]

Ok, so I guess what I'm reading is that the gas from the pumps in Ohio is safe to use on bike. And that E85 gas are clearly marked.

The folks I asked at gas stations had no idea.

[jporter12]

Ok, so I guess what I'm reading is that the gas from the pumps in Ohio is safe to use on bike. And that E85 gas are clearly marked.

The folks I asked at gas stations had no idea.

Yes, you have it right. E85 is not very common around here. I only know of 1 station, myself.

[SWing'R]

E85 is not very common around here. I only know of 1 station, myself.

I don't think I've ever seen it

[ReconRat]

All Ohio pumps used to be clearly marked for E10 (10% ethanol). Which was the maximum allowed in regular fuel as an additive in Ohio, by Ohio law. But eventually almost every source of fuel had 10% ethanol, so Ohio decided displaying that marking on the pump was a waste of their time. Any other fuel, like an E25 or E85, has to be marked clearly on the pump.

Ethanol is hard on polymers/rubber. But since ethanol is common in fuel, almost all vehicle manufacturers deal with it by changing materials to resist component damage. This means older vehicles, like those before something like maybe 1976-1978 will have problems with ethanol in the fuel, unless all the seals/rubber is replaced. The "sort of" official limit is vehicles before 1990-1995. After that, ethanol isn't supposed to effect engine/fuel system components.

Main problem is simple swelling and softening of the rubber, or synthetic rubber materials. But there are horror stories of things like plastic floats in carbs simply melting or dissolving.

I did run a higher ethanol in a 1976 Honda, and it didn't seem to have a problem with it. That was the old "Gasohol", when it was first sold. Can't remember exact percentage, but it was something between E10 and E25. (I want to think E20, but the stations would never actually say what percentage.) The ethanol could clearly be smelled coming out the tail pipe. Which means it wasn't all burning. Oddly, my gas mileage was a fair bit higher using it. The same fuel in a V-8 car, had terrible gas mileage. Dunno...

edit: we had a thread on sources of E0 fuel, but I'll have to go find it. The list was short, but there are pumps at boat docks that sell E0.

http://www.ohio-riders.com/showthread.php?t=61239&highlight=e85

Website listing sources of E0 - http://pure-gas.org/

Edited August 28, 2010 by ReconRat

[ReconRat]

Also, since ethanol is hydroscopic (attracts/absorbs water), the aluminum and steel components in the fuel system can corrode. Not so much the combustion chambers and exhaust, but the carbs and fuel tank and fuel lines. E85 vehicles use stainless steel or plastic for all those parts.

BTW, there's what appears to be a little ethanol refinery on 5th avenue out East. I have no idea what they are doing.

[jporter12]

BTW, there's what appears to be a little ethanol refinery on 5th avenue out East. I have no idea what they are doing.

Something to do with waste oil recycling. I forget what it is now, but they've been in the news a bit lately.

For the ethanol compatability issue, search ducati plastic fuel tank swelling! Actually, there's some talk about it in the thread that Tom linked to above about where to find E0.

The one place I know has E85 is Kroger on East Broad St. The fuel station to the side of the store, not their Turkey Hill across the street.

[ironbuttwannabe]

I think you might have E85 mixed up with just the unleaded 85 octane gasoline at the pump. Most 85 octane will have around 10% Ethanol already mixed in. Only a few places in Ohio do not have about a 10% Ethanol mix

[C-bus]

E85 pumps are clearly marked and are separate pumps like diesel. I've only used e85 at some select Kroger stations. But that was when it was $.30 cheaper and I had my F150. Mileage decrease was a big issue and now that the difference is only $.10-$.20, it no longer saves money. Only the kool-aid drinking greenies use it now . So to answer your question ... what they ^^^ said.

[Tigerpaw]

+1 on what everyone else said. In addition. if you ride/drive west through Indiana/Illinois/Iowa/Nebraska E85 does become much much more available. Don't use it in the bikes or vintage car. DON'T use it in anything you will store for the winter.

[serpentracer]

E85 isn't found much of anywhere. Almost all gasoline is E10, supposed to be up to 10% ethanol, but many have reason to believe that it's more like 15-25%. I don't doubt them, and I would prefer no Ethanol in my gasoline.

in cincinnati I never see gas with any ethanol in it.

unless they don't have to put the sticker on the pump here.

Edited August 28, 2010 by serpentracer

[Strictly Street]

I did run a higher ethanol in a 1976 Honda, and it didn't seem to have a problem with it. That was the old "Gasohol", when it was first sold. Can't remember exact percentage, but it was something between E10 and E25. (I want to think E20, but the stations would never actually say what percentage.) The ethanol could clearly be smelled coming out the tail pipe. Which means it wasn't all burning. Oddly, my gas mileage was a fair bit higher using it. The same fuel in a V-8 car, had terrible gas mileage. Dunno...

I ran "Gasahol" in a 75 Yamaha RD two stroke, no problems.

[MeefZah]

I think you'd have a real hard time finding gas in Ohio that doesn't contain 10% ethanol. It may or may not be marked on the pumps.

E-85 is clearly marked on the pump, is available only in certain areas, although I live in one of the most rural counties in Ohio and there's E85 available here; so it's around.

Don't use E85 in anything not designed for it.

10% ethanol is no big deal and despite what some others have said about ethanol causing rubber damage in older vehicles yadda yadda yadda; you pretty much have two choices in Ohio - use it, or park the fucking machine.

[jporter12]

I have heard that the E10 gas that we get whether we want it or not tends to varnish easier than 100% gasoline. Anybody have any proof to back that up?

[ReconRat]

I have heard that the E10 gas that we get whether we want it or not tends to varnish easier than 100% gasoline. Anybody have any proof to back that up?

Essentially the stability of fuel isn't as good as back when it was leaded gas. Yes, it does varnish up easier. The ethanol attracts water, which is one cause of fuel varnishing up. Oxidation is another. Elevated temperatures is a third. The additives like Stabil are good for fixing that. All fuel and oil has a shelf life, if not stored properly, and it isn't much more than 3 to 6 months for gasoline. But other sources of information insist that gasoline can be stored almost indefinitely if done properly. The ethanol does rot the steel tank out much faster, since the ethanol attracts water. On the other hand, a little water in the fuel will get burned up, since it mixes well with the ethanol.

Wiki

Gummy, sticky resin deposits result from oxidative degradation of gasoline. This degradation can be prevented through the use of antioxidants such as phenylenediamines, alkylenediamines (diethylenetriamine, triethylenetetramine, etc.), and alkylamines (diethylamine, tributylamine, ethylamine). Other useful additives include gum inhibitors such as N-substituted alkylaminophenols and colour stabilizers such as N-(2-aminoethyl)piperazine, N,N-diethylhydroxylamine, and triethylenetetramine.

[ReconRat]

Fiddling around on the internet, I see there are other additives in fuel also. Some in large percentages. These listed here are considered hazardous to touch, handle, or inhale. the percentages are odd, since added up and including 10% ethanol, it is a total of 76% "fuel other than gasoline".

Wiki

...including benzene (up to 5% by volume), toluene (up to 35% by volume), naphthalene (up to 1% by volume), trimethylbenzene (up to 7% by volume), Methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE) (up to 18% by volume, in some states) and about ten others.

[chevysoldier]

Giant Eagle in New Albany right off of 161 has E85 IIRC.

[ReconRat]

Just for fun, here's what is in gasoline...

Wiki again

Additives

• Hybrid compound blends
  
  • Combustion catalyst: an organometallic compound which lowers the ignition point of fuel in the combustion chamber reducing the temperature burn from 1200 degrees to 800 degree F
    
  • Catalyst additives prolongs engine life and increases fuel economy
    
  • Burn rate modifier increases the fuel burn time, resulting in an increased fuel efficiency
    
  • Polymerization increases fuel ignition surface area resulting in increased power from ignition
    
  • Stabilizer/demulsifier/dispersant: prolongs life of fuel and prevents water contamination
    
  • Corrosion inhibitor prevents corrosion of tank and fuel system
    
  • Deposit control additives, acting as detergents, clean the engine
    

  [*]Oxygenates

  • Alcohols:
    
    • Methanol (MeOH)
      
    • Ethanol (EtOH)
      
    • Isopropyl alcohol (IPA)
      
    • n-butanol (BuOH)
      
    • Gasoline grade t-butanol (GTBA)
      

    [*]Ethers:

    • Methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE) Now outlawed in many states for road use.
      
    • Tertiary amyl methyl ether (TAME)
      
    • Tertiary hexyl methyl ether (THEME)
      
    • Ethyl tertiary butyl ether (ETBE)
      
    • Tertiary amyl ethyl ether (TAEE)
      
    • Diisopropyl ether (DIPE)
      

• Antioxidants, stabilizers
  
  • Butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT)
    
  • 2,4-Dimethyl-6-tert-butylphenol
    
  • 2,6-Di-tert-butylphenol (2,6-DTBP)
    
  • p-Phenylenediamine
    
  • Ethylene diamine
    

• Antiknock agents
  
  • Tetra-ethyl lead
    
  • Methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT)
    
  • Ferrocene
    
  • Iron pentacarbonyl
    
  • Toluene
    
  • Isooctane
    
  • Triptane
    

• Lead scavengers (for leaded gasoline)
  
  • Tricresyl phosphate (TCP) (also an AW additive and EP additive)
    
  • 1,2-Dibromoethane
    
  • 1,2-Dichloroethane
    

• Fuel dyes, most common:
  
  • Solvent Red 24
    
  • Solvent Red 26
    
  • Solvent Yellow 124
    
  • Solvent Blue 35
    

• Fuel additives in general
  
  • Ether and other flammable hydrocarbons have been used extensively as starting fluid for many difficult-to-start engines, especially diesel engines
    
  • Nitrous oxide, or simply nitrous, is an oxidizer used in auto racing
    
  • Nitromethane, or "nitro," is a high-performance racing fuel
    
  • Acetone is a vaporization additive, mainly used with methanol racing fuel to improve vaporisation at start up
    
  • Butyl rubber (as polyisobutylene succinimide, detergent to prevent fouling of diesel fuel injectors)
    
  • Picrate improves combustion, increases fuel mileage
    
  • Silicone is an anti-foaming agent for diesel fuel, but may damage oxygen sensors in gasoline engines
    
  • Tetranitromethane can increase the cetane number of diesel fuel, improving its combustion properties
    

[35RFTW]

E85 is all over the place in Ohio. Check out E85.com. Great stuff if your bike/car is tuned for it.