usafstud Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 Hi,This may be a real dumb question, but I just moved to this part of the country. Are all fuel in OH, IL, KY, and etc only E85 fuel? Is this the norm? Is it safe for my modern bikes, and vintage 2 stroke bikes? How about for vintage cars?Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 E85 isn't found much of anywhere. Almost all gasoline is E10, supposed to be up to 10% ethanol, but many have reason to believe that it's more like 15-25%. I don't doubt them, and I would prefer no Ethanol in my gasoline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 So can you use E85 in older sport bikes like mine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 So can you use E85 in older sport bikes like mine?No!! No E85 in motorcycles, unless they were made by GM. Seriously though, bikes were not designed to run on ethanol. Dont do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 So can you use E85 in older sport bikes like mine?Even if you could, why would you want to? Cheaper? Check your MPG and re-think that. I won't even start into the politics, and other economic effects of it.Ethanol is not good for bikes. Especially carbureted bikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 Ethanol is bad for rubber things, like those in your carbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 Gotcha, never hurts to ask.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usafstud Posted August 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 Ok, so I guess what I'm reading is that the gas from the pumps in Ohio is safe to use on bike. And that E85 gas are clearly marked.The folks I asked at gas stations had no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 Ok, so I guess what I'm reading is that the gas from the pumps in Ohio is safe to use on bike. And that E85 gas are clearly marked.The folks I asked at gas stations had no idea.Yes, you have it right. E85 is not very common around here. I only know of 1 station, myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWing'R Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 E85 is not very common around here. I only know of 1 station, myself.I don't think I've ever seen it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 (edited) All Ohio pumps used to be clearly marked for E10 (10% ethanol). Which was the maximum allowed in regular fuel as an additive in Ohio, by Ohio law. But eventually almost every source of fuel had 10% ethanol, so Ohio decided displaying that marking on the pump was a waste of their time. Any other fuel, like an E25 or E85, has to be marked clearly on the pump.Ethanol is hard on polymers/rubber. But since ethanol is common in fuel, almost all vehicle manufacturers deal with it by changing materials to resist component damage. This means older vehicles, like those before something like maybe 1976-1978 will have problems with ethanol in the fuel, unless all the seals/rubber is replaced. The "sort of" official limit is vehicles before 1990-1995. After that, ethanol isn't supposed to effect engine/fuel system components.Main problem is simple swelling and softening of the rubber, or synthetic rubber materials. But there are horror stories of things like plastic floats in carbs simply melting or dissolving.I did run a higher ethanol in a 1976 Honda, and it didn't seem to have a problem with it. That was the old "Gasohol", when it was first sold. Can't remember exact percentage, but it was something between E10 and E25. (I want to think E20, but the stations would never actually say what percentage.) The ethanol could clearly be smelled coming out the tail pipe. Which means it wasn't all burning. Oddly, my gas mileage was a fair bit higher using it. The same fuel in a V-8 car, had terrible gas mileage. Dunno...edit: we had a thread on sources of E0 fuel, but I'll have to go find it. The list was short, but there are pumps at boat docks that sell E0.http://www.ohio-riders.com/showthread.php?t=61239&highlight=e85Website listing sources of E0 - http://pure-gas.org/ Edited August 28, 2010 by ReconRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 Also, since ethanol is hydroscopic (attracts/absorbs water), the aluminum and steel components in the fuel system can corrode. Not so much the combustion chambers and exhaust, but the carbs and fuel tank and fuel lines. E85 vehicles use stainless steel or plastic for all those parts.BTW, there's what appears to be a little ethanol refinery on 5th avenue out East. I have no idea what they are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 BTW, there's what appears to be a little ethanol refinery on 5th avenue out East. I have no idea what they are doing.Something to do with waste oil recycling. I forget what it is now, but they've been in the news a bit lately.For the ethanol compatability issue, search ducati plastic fuel tank swelling! Actually, there's some talk about it in the thread that Tom linked to above about where to find E0.The one place I know has E85 is Kroger on East Broad St. The fuel station to the side of the store, not their Turkey Hill across the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironbuttwannabe Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 I think you might have E85 mixed up with just the unleaded 85 octane gasoline at the pump. Most 85 octane will have around 10% Ethanol already mixed in. Only a few places in Ohio do not have about a 10% Ethanol mix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-bus Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 E85 pumps are clearly marked and are separate pumps like diesel. I've only used e85 at some select Kroger stations. But that was when it was $.30 cheaper and I had my F150. Mileage decrease was a big issue and now that the difference is only $.10-$.20, it no longer saves money. Only the kool-aid drinking greenies use it now . So to answer your question ... what they ^^^ said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerpaw Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 +1 on what everyone else said. In addition. if you ride/drive west through Indiana/Illinois/Iowa/Nebraska E85 does become much much more available. Don't use it in the bikes or vintage car. DON'T use it in anything you will store for the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentracer Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 (edited) E85 isn't found much of anywhere. Almost all gasoline is E10, supposed to be up to 10% ethanol, but many have reason to believe that it's more like 15-25%. I don't doubt them, and I would prefer no Ethanol in my gasoline.in cincinnati I never see gas with any ethanol in it.unless they don't have to put the sticker on the pump here. Edited August 28, 2010 by serpentracer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 I did run a higher ethanol in a 1976 Honda, and it didn't seem to have a problem with it. That was the old "Gasohol", when it was first sold. Can't remember exact percentage, but it was something between E10 and E25. (I want to think E20, but the stations would never actually say what percentage.) The ethanol could clearly be smelled coming out the tail pipe. Which means it wasn't all burning. Oddly, my gas mileage was a fair bit higher using it. The same fuel in a V-8 car, had terrible gas mileage. Dunno...I ran "Gasahol" in a 75 Yamaha RD two stroke, no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeefZah Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 I think you'd have a real hard time finding gas in Ohio that doesn't contain 10% ethanol. It may or may not be marked on the pumps.E-85 is clearly marked on the pump, is available only in certain areas, although I live in one of the most rural counties in Ohio and there's E85 available here; so it's around.Don't use E85 in anything not designed for it.10% ethanol is no big deal and despite what some others have said about ethanol causing rubber damage in older vehicles yadda yadda yadda; you pretty much have two choices in Ohio - use it, or park the fucking machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 I have heard that the E10 gas that we get whether we want it or not tends to varnish easier than 100% gasoline. Anybody have any proof to back that up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 I have heard that the E10 gas that we get whether we want it or not tends to varnish easier than 100% gasoline. Anybody have any proof to back that up?Essentially the stability of fuel isn't as good as back when it was leaded gas. Yes, it does varnish up easier. The ethanol attracts water, which is one cause of fuel varnishing up. Oxidation is another. Elevated temperatures is a third. The additives like Stabil are good for fixing that. All fuel and oil has a shelf life, if not stored properly, and it isn't much more than 3 to 6 months for gasoline. But other sources of information insist that gasoline can be stored almost indefinitely if done properly. The ethanol does rot the steel tank out much faster, since the ethanol attracts water. On the other hand, a little water in the fuel will get burned up, since it mixes well with the ethanol.Wiki Gummy, sticky resin deposits result from oxidative degradation of gasoline. This degradation can be prevented through the use of antioxidants such as phenylenediamines, alkylenediamines (diethylenetriamine, triethylenetetramine, etc.), and alkylamines (diethylamine, tributylamine, ethylamine). Other useful additives include gum inhibitors such as N-substituted alkylaminophenols and colour stabilizers such as N-(2-aminoethyl)piperazine, N,N-diethylhydroxylamine, and triethylenetetramine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Fiddling around on the internet, I see there are other additives in fuel also. Some in large percentages. These listed here are considered hazardous to touch, handle, or inhale. the percentages are odd, since added up and including 10% ethanol, it is a total of 76% "fuel other than gasoline".Wiki...including benzene (up to 5% by volume), toluene (up to 35% by volume), naphthalene (up to 1% by volume), trimethylbenzene (up to 7% by volume), Methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE) (up to 18% by volume, in some states) and about ten others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Giant Eagle in New Albany right off of 161 has E85 IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Just for fun, here's what is in gasoline...Wiki againAdditivesHybrid compound blendsCombustion catalyst: an organometallic compound which lowers the ignition point of fuel in the combustion chamber reducing the temperature burn from 1200 degrees to 800 degree FCatalyst additives prolongs engine life and increases fuel economyBurn rate modifier increases the fuel burn time, resulting in an increased fuel efficiencyPolymerization increases fuel ignition surface area resulting in increased power from ignitionStabilizer/demulsifier/dispersant: prolongs life of fuel and prevents water contaminationCorrosion inhibitor prevents corrosion of tank and fuel systemDeposit control additives, acting as detergents, clean the engine[*]OxygenatesAlcohols:Methanol (MeOH)Ethanol (EtOH)Isopropyl alcohol (IPA)n-butanol (BuOH)Gasoline grade t-butanol (GTBA)[*]Ethers:Methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE) Now outlawed in many states for road use.Tertiary amyl methyl ether (TAME)Tertiary hexyl methyl ether (THEME)Ethyl tertiary butyl ether (ETBE)Tertiary amyl ethyl ether (TAEE)Diisopropyl ether (DIPE)Antioxidants, stabilizersButylated hydroxytoluene (BHT)2,4-Dimethyl-6-tert-butylphenol2,6-Di-tert-butylphenol (2,6-DTBP)p-PhenylenediamineEthylene diamineAntiknock agentsTetra-ethyl leadMethylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT)FerroceneIron pentacarbonylTolueneIsooctaneTriptaneLead scavengers (for leaded gasoline)Tricresyl phosphate (TCP) (also an AW additive and EP additive)1,2-Dibromoethane1,2-DichloroethaneFuel dyes, most common:Solvent Red 24Solvent Red 26Solvent Yellow 124Solvent Blue 35Fuel additives in generalEther and other flammable hydrocarbons have been used extensively as starting fluid for many difficult-to-start engines, especially diesel enginesNitrous oxide, or simply nitrous, is an oxidizer used in auto racingNitromethane, or "nitro," is a high-performance racing fuelAcetone is a vaporization additive, mainly used with methanol racing fuel to improve vaporisation at start upButyl rubber (as polyisobutylene succinimide, detergent to prevent fouling of diesel fuel injectors)Picrate improves combustion, increases fuel mileageSilicone is an anti-foaming agent for diesel fuel, but may damage oxygen sensors in gasoline enginesTetranitromethane can increase the cetane number of diesel fuel, improving its combustion properties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35RFTW Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 E85 is all over the place in Ohio. Check out E85.com. Great stuff if your bike/car is tuned for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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