Moto-Brian Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Whichever tires I run I plan to buy trackside. For someone like me a slightly better tire isn't going to make me any faster. The only thing that will is more seat time and I'd rather spend the money on an extra race. I'm currently running power pures, so any race tire is going to be a big step up for me.No offense, but that is a loser mentality. The fact is that the savings is really minimal. Think wear length, think the fact that you WILL get better. Understand that better tires will make you BETTER. You can settle for a tire that is cheap and that none of the experienced guys are really running and have issues with getting info should something arise that causes issue.I'm pushing Dunlop, but Pirelli would be another better choice or even Michelin. Reason being is there are more guys with your style of bike that run them vs the Stones...What's the savings? $60?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Okay, does the Dunlop trackside guy carry the 211's normally (I'd assume yes)? And how do I get the cost of a set other than when I show up on Sat. morning.They are spec tires. $399 for the newest compounds. Cheaper for the last year stuff which was very good. Certain compounds are suggested higher than others...They are all priced the same as they are a spec tire and have to be or they violate AMA rules... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Hhhmm....that's almost $100 more than Pures not mounted. So throw in $40 for mounting/balancing and it's $60 more over all.You won't get charged mounting at the track if you buy them. Plus, the Pures are a street tire, guys. $100 between street and race... Trust me, the difference is minimal in price. The difference in performance and longevity is going to be big between the two...Get race tires, guys. Don't settle for street tires because you think you are not fast enough. Ask Craig how much faster and how much more confident he was on race tires vs street...Well, don't ask him since he went to the shit Pirellis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I have a 2-3 second difference from street to race tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Q is suppose to sell them but never has any. I have been getting them from Gray.Q can't get them due to licensing and such. STS is the real place to get them or Walt down south...But, you will have to pay for mounting at the track...I think you guys are off on the STones pricing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I have a 2-3 second difference from street to race tires.That's a really big difference... Plus what JBot stated and that's why street tires limit you when racing. Think about if it is 70 plus degrees also... Street tires are gonna get greasy quicker and certainly have issues for you before race end...If you are ok with riding around a shit tire, cool. But, unless you are running an endurance and have to manage a tire that is smoked and you need to finish your stint, why would you want that result EVERY sprint race you run?Street tires will grease up every race out. They will progress to worse status as the weekend goes by. That $100 savings is trivial. The BStone difference of $60-$70 makes it even easier to decide...Overall, it is your call. But, why run an aftermarket exhaust? Why run rearsets? Why run better suspension? "I'm not fast enough" is BS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Understand that better tires will make you BETTER. I just can't agree with this.At some point, sure, a better tire allows you to progress with more confidence, but buying race tires when your pace isn't that close to requiring it is just throwing away money on potential you're not going to reach.I've never turned a wheel on anything better than a Q2, and I'm pretty mid-pack in Advanced. I'm just now going to race tires, and maybe I'm a little overdue, but Intermediate riders just don't need race tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yea I heard that about him yet somehow he keeps trying to say he sells them. The bstone price might be for the old ones. I'm guessing the $340 dunlops are the old ones, says 211s but I know next to nothing about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler524 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 So this is probably a dumb question but what kind of life can I expect out of gp211s vs my Q2s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I just can't agree with this.At some point, sure, a better tire allows you to progress with more confidence, but buying race tires when your pace isn't that close to requiring it is just throwing away money on potential you're not going to reach.I've never turned a wheel on anything better than a Q2, and I'm pretty mid-pack in Advanced. I'm just now going to race tires, and maybe I'm a little overdue, but Intermediate riders just don't need race tires.Dude, we are talking racers here. If you are an Intermediate rider at track days, you really shouldn't be racing. No offense.Plus, how do you explain 2-3 seconds faster? That's better and that is a HUGE differnce. Huge. 2-3 seconds - how much would that cost in engine upgrades?I can run top tier Advanced pace on Q2s. That's a difference of ability. But, I cannot run as fast as I can on race tires. Same ability - difference is in race tires. Plus, getting a good set of tires will make you better because you will be able to do things that will make you faster and help you learn more. No sure why you can say they won't make you better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 So this is probably a dumb question but what kind of life can I expect out of gp211s vs my Q2s?You heat the right way and let them cool the proper way and depending on your ability, they should last longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I have gotten away with some just stupid stuff on race tires, they are nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 As for longevity, that's a loaded question. Suspension setup will hurt or help. Tire pressure will hurt or help. Track will hurt or help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I just don't like the characterization that the tires "make" you anything; be it better, worse, or lighter in the wallet...The equipment only allows you to ride up to its potential.If we're talking about competitive racers, then of course they should be running race tires, but whether it was my misunderstanding or just bad reading comprehension, I thought we were talking about riders who either hadn't raced much, or not at all (i.e. "intermediate" riders)What does Wrobel run around Nelson anyway? I'm curious as to where the "cut" would be with the AMA 107% rule (or the old 110% rule) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rslocum Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 So this is probably a dumb question but what kind of life can I expect out of gp211s vs my Q2s?I'm interested in this question as well. I only have 1 day on Q2's at barber and they got worn pretty good. I used them last year as well and maybe got 3-4 trackdays on the rear at most. The guy I bought my bike swore by the GP211's but i'm no where near race tires but if they have good longevity maybe using warmers and race tires may be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Thinking 1:08 range maybe 7s can't fully remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I just don't like the characterization that the tires "make" you anything; be it better, worse, or lighter in the wallet...The equipment only allows you to ride up to its potential.If we're talking about competitive racers, then of course they should be running race tires, but whether it was my misunderstanding or just bad reading comprehension, I thought we were talking about riders who either hadn't raced much, or not at all (i.e. "intermediate" riders)What does Wrobel run around Nelson anyway? I'm curious as to where the "cut" would be with the AMA 107% rule (or the old 110% rule)We were in 09s last year. I didn't get an 08, but I think he might have hit that... Mostly low 09s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Screw you and your 9s Brian, there I said it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I just don't like the characterization that the tires "make" you anything; be it better, worse, or lighter in the wallet...If they don't make you better, what do they make you if you run faster lap times? I can put you on 211s and another guy like Wrobel on the same tire. It isn't a comparison, but if I put you both on the same street tire and send you back out, Jeff is still faster, but slower than race tires. That's making him worse than the race tires. Same ability, same bike, same suspension, same everything and even if he set the bike up to adjust for the street tires, he isn't going to pull the same lap times and certainly not the same constant times...I guess I need you to tell me what that result equals...ANd no offense, but the basis of that comparison is that I know Jeff can exceed the potential of that tire. Again, do not take this wrong, but you cannot. Know what I mean? Potential of a piece of equipment isn't how you judge. Otherwise, I should go just as fast as Blake Young on his bike because the potential of that bike. That's nowhere close to reality.But, I will go faster than a stock GSXR. Or, more realisitc ideas? I can run faster on a stock RC8 with GPA211s than I can on a set of Q2s. It is close, but still faster on race tires. The tires made me faster. Faster is better and allows me to do things with the bike that were not allowed on the Q2s. I can still ride a Q2 shod RC8 pretty good around Mid-Ohio for example. But, the times I can run on a 211 shod RC8 is faster and honestly, easier to go faster.Again, limits are limits. But, ability will not excel if it cannot have a solid platform to work with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Screw you and your 9s Brian, there I said it. I think 07s are there. But, we probably won't hit it with each other as the pace is something where we would have to really hammer each other and push. We have too much fun out there and I think it slows us down a tad. But, after looking at WERA and their pace and being dead nut serious, they were only in mid to 09.3 range. We actually ran faster lap times. I know in 2010 with WERA, they were into 07s. But, I think the track fell away a tad this year...Again, I think we may be into 08s this year. Dunno with the RC8 and chasing Justin's cheater bike, but we will try! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 That's what I'm shooting for too. Lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRMN8TR Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 No offense, but that is a loser mentality. The fact is that the savings is really minimal. Think wear length, think the fact that you WILL get better. Understand that better tires will make you BETTER. You can settle for a tire that is cheap and that none of the experienced guys are really running and have issues with getting info should something arise that causes issue.I'm pushing Dunlop, but Pirelli would be another better choice or even Michelin. Reason being is there are more guys with your style of bike that run them vs the Stones...What's the savings? $60??I'm talking about running race tires...the BT003 pros are a race tire and not just a street tire. I agree totally that switching to race tires is the right thing for me. I still don't think buying the latest and greatest is necessary. I've improved greatly in the 2 years I've been to a track, but the few tenths of a second I might get from running an R10 (or any other manufacturers newest tire) over a BT003 still isn't going to put me anywhere near the podium. Of course I know and plan on getting better, but the reality is I'm just not there yet. But this is what redkow is getting at...if a rider is running 1:35-1:30 lap times at nelson, race tires are not going to make him faster. He's not even pushing the limits of the tire. He's not going slow because of the tires, he's just going slow. Put him on race tires and he's still gonna run a 1:35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler524 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I'm talking about running race tires...the BT003 pros are a race tire and not just a street tire. I agree totally that switching to race tires is the right thing for me. I still don't think buying the latest and greatest is necessary. I've improved greatly in the 2 years I've been to a track, but the few tenths of a second I might get from running an R10 (or any other manufacturers newest tire) over a BT003 still isn't going to put me anywhere near the podium. Of course I know and plan on getting better, but the reality is I'm just not there yet. But this is what redkow is getting at...if a rider is running 1:35-1:30 lap times at nelson, race tires are not going to make him faster. He's not even pushing the limits of the tire. He's not going slow because of the tires, he's just going slow. Put him on race tires and he's still gonna run a 1:35.At 1:35 you could run some touring tire lol I kid I kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRMN8TR Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Lol I ran a few 1:27-8's 2 summers ago on conti road attack sport touring tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I need to suck it up and just go faster at Nelson. 1:16 should be easily attainable, and realistically, I need to be closer to 1:12's to consider this season a success. I just never seem to put in much seat time at Nelson. Refraining from NESBA & WERA memberships this year should hopefully correct that. I have started to pigeon-hole myself as a guy who can only go fast(ish) at beaver. That's gotta change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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