Trayvon Martin case will not go to the Grand Jury

[crb]

Stand your ground law doesn't even apply IMHO.

A. He was the aggressor.

Or

B. There was no duty to retreat because you can't retreat when a man is beat the snot out of you while you are on the ground

The author of the stand your ground law has even cone out and said it doesn't apply.

That's right 17 attacking a 28 year old is a man not a kid, baby face, teen, etc. If the roles were reversed he would more than likely be charged as an adult so stop this kid shit. I knew a couple 17 year holds I went to school with you would not want to tangle with one had a bad temper and wouldn't stop beating you. Hell at 17 if you threatened my life I would gave given you a run for your money and I'm no harass. I wouldn't have attacked someone for following me. He had a cell phone call the cops and let them deal with it unless the follower escalates things.

Zimmerman following Martin does not give Martin the right to touch, punch, choke, etc Zimmerman unless he was following him gun drawn which I haven't seen proof of yet.

[ohiomike]

Facts:

Zimmerman followed Martin after being told not to, and that FACT is what will give the jury the reason to throw out Stand Your Ground.

Martin was visiting people that lived in the gated community, which gave his the right to be there.

Zimmerman shot and killed Martin.

Those are the facts.

That's it.

Fact.

The rest of your statement doesn't mean shit...legally speaking.

No, it's not illegal to follow someone...but if you do, you can't kill them and claim Stand Your Ground.

Read the law as it's written.

Read the very first part where it says "retreat".

Following, which he ADMITTED to doing, which is thus know as a FACT, is the opposite of retreating.

See how that works...

Yes he followed the kid after being told not to. Following someone does not give a person the right to jump the follower. Martin did jump Zimmerman. At least that's the story I have heard over and over. Seems to be plenty of evidence to support that. At that point Zimmerman had the right to defend himself. Whether the kid had the right to be there or not is irrelevant. Zimmerman saw him as someone who was not supposed to be there.

If I was Zimmerman in the same scenario as I just put it I would not hesitate to defend myself and if necessary, shoot my attacker. I would also not shoot to do anything other than to stop them in their tracks.

Lots of 'if's in this all. I keep remembering everything you and I are (and everyone else) are hearing are coming from or through the media, which we cannot trust. All I want is for the facts to come out, tangible, accurate facts, and if Zimmerman was at fault, then let him hang. But unless some sort of revelation comes out, something the media has not skewed with their bias, I feel he will be exonerated.

[magley64]

That's right 17 attacking a 28 year old is a man not a kid, baby face, teen, etc.

Sorry, 17 is a kid to me...

[Scruit]

It should also be noted that in order for Zimmerman to clain that he withdrew and that martin started a new encounter, there has to be a seperation of time and / or distance that would allow a reasonable person to cool off. Zimmerman must convince the judge/jury that any encounter that was precipitated by his following martin was completely separate from any encounter that Martin may have started.

Zimmerman claims he stopped following Martin and turned around and walked away:

- Where was Martin when he became aware that Zimmerman had truned around.

- Where was Zimmerman when Martin initiated the alleged second encounter?

If we are talking about less than 20' then the court may consider that part of the same encounter, started by Zimmerman.

IF we are talking 100' or more, then Martin will likely be considered to have had plenty chance to cool off and depart, making any second encounter a separate thing, started by Martin, re-establishing Z's right to self-defense.

How much time passed between those same two points? 5 seconds? Probabyl will be ruled the same encounter. 2 minutes? Probably a new encounter.

This is the level of detail the investigation has to be lookign at - and even finer.

Where did the bullet hit M? Why did the gun not cycle? Was M holding the gun too? (proves a struggle for the gun but does not prove wether the gun was a the cause of, or in repsonse to, a deadly-force attack). Was the bullet found? through-and-through? Was the bullet found embedded in a nearby object thereby help establing M's position when he was shot? Did the bullet hit in in the gut/chest on Z's dominant side (suggests Z and M were face-to-face, less than a foot, and Z was unable to present the gun and take proper aim)? GSR on M's torso would also support that. Was the bullet wound straight-on with no GSR on M's hand or body, suggesting at least a 3-4' separation, making it difficult to claim he was pinned down.

Too many questions. My head is spinning.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Scruit

[Scruit]

Sorry, 17 is a kid to me...

Semantics. 6'3, 160lbs is adult-size.

[crb]

It should also be noted that in order for Zimmerman to clain that he withdrew and that martin started a new encounter, there has to be a seperation of time and / or distance that would allow a reasonable person to cool off. Zimmerman must convince the judge/jury that any encounter that was precipitated by his following martin was completely separate from any encounter that Martin may have started.

Zimmerman claims he stopped following Martin and turned around and walked away:

- Where was Martin when he became aware that Zimmerman had truned around.

- Where was Zimmerman when Martin initiated the second encounter?

If we are talking about less than 20' then the court may consider that part of the same encounter, started by Zimmerman.

IF we are talking 100' or more, then Martin will likely be considered to have had plenty chance to cool off and depart, making any second encounter a separate thing, started by Martin, re-establishing Z's right to self-defense.

How much time passed between those same two points? 5 seconds? Probabyl will be ruled the same encounter. 2 minutes? Probably a new encounter.

This is the level of detail the investigation has to be lookign at - and even finer.

Where did the bullet hit M? Why did the gun not cycle? Was M holding the gun too? (proves a struggle for the gun but does not prove wether the gun was a the cause of, or in repsonse to, a deadly-force attack). Was the bullet found? through-and-through? Was the bullet found embedded in a nearby object thereby help establing M's position when he was shot? Did the bullet hit in in the gut/chest on Z's dominant side (suggests Z and M were face-to-face, less than a foot, and Z was unable to present the gun and take proper aim)? GSR on M's torso would also support that. Was the bullet wound straight-on with no GSR on M's hand or body, suggesting at least a 3-4' separation, making it difficult to claim he was pinned down.

Too many questions. My head is spinning.

Totally agree! I have the same questions. I can't say he is guilty or innocent in my opinion until all the facts come out. It may be best that it goes yo trial.

I will say 100% both men made bad choices that night unless it comes it comes out that Z followed him gun drawn, but I have seen no evidence to show this despite the liberal media trying to spin it that way.

[chevysoldier]

Sorry, 17 is a kid to me...

Plenty of 17 year olds have been tried as adults, technically 17 is not legally an adult yet but it's not like at 17 they are playing with gi joes and then at 18 decide to rob a bank. Are you gonna ask for ID before you decide what course of action to take against an aggressor?

[crb]

Sorry, 17 is a kid to me...

Not if he assaults a 28 yr old man.

His tweets are interesting.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-daily-caller-obtains-trayvon-martins-tweets/

I still want to see the toxicology reports.

[chevysoldier]

....

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

....

Person on my facebook feed liked a pic of Jesus on the cross that was shared by the TM page.... The profile pic was the 5 year old photo. I just shook my head.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

Ahole dont edit your post!

[chevysoldier]

Ahole dont edit your post!

lol, I wasn't 100% sure the second pic was of Martin so I opted to take it down.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

he night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.

What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.

The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.

Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/25/10854229-witness-zimmerman-never-tried-to-help-trayvon-martin

A woman who says she and her roommate witnessed the final moments of Trayvon Martin's life told Dateline NBC that George Zimmerman had "his hands pressed on his back" and "never turned him over or tried to help him."

You apply pressure to the gunshot wound.

A friend of Zimmerman's who appeared on TODAY with Sonner added that Zimmerman, 28, was distraught over the teen's death.

"Right after the shooting he couldn't stop crying," said Joe Oliver, who is African American and a former TV reporter and anchor in Orlando.

In a separate interview Sunday, Oliver said that "I'm a black male and all that I know is that George has never given me any reason whatsoever to believe he has anything against people of color.''

Hopefully all the facts are correctly applied in a court of law and the truth be told. furthermore, I'm hoping the public can hear of the facts presented and maybe we as a society can learn something.

[chevysoldier]

Again, why does Martin/Zimmerman get such media attentions and a word from Obama and yet this: http://twoguys2012.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/white-kid-burned-by-two-black-kids-in-kansas-city-racial-attack-real-story-real-news-wheres-president-obama/

barely gets a blurp on the news?

Also why is it Trayvon/Zimmerman and not Martin/George or Martin/Zimmerman or Trayvon/George? Yeah, no bias or media playing the public.

[Steve Butters]

either way it ends up - he will always be the bad guy (i believe he was in the wrong personally, but if facts come up to prove me wrong, i will change my opinion).....same deal with casey anthony, she was found innocent yet the whole country hates her....even some people in this thread who are so pro-liberty, innocent until proven guilty, etc i bet all feel that casey anthony is a bad person....i personally dont give a fuck about what she did or didnt do, i wouldnt let her babysit my kids, but if i ran into her in public i would treat her the same as any other person

[Steve Butters]

Again, why does Martin/Zimmerman get such media attentions and a word from Obama and yet this: http://twoguys2012.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/white-kid-burned-by-two-black-kids-in-kansas-city-racial-attack-real-story-real-news-wheres-president-obama/

barely gets a blurp on the news?

Also why is it Trayvon/Zimmerman and not Martin/George or Martin/Zimmerman or Trayvon/George? Yeah, no bias or media playing the public.

i have seen plenty of martin/zimmerman

and nobody gives a damn about that story because its just a white kid .... theres no white organizations to make a huge stink about it like there are black ones when these events happen....sorry if that sounds racist, but it is what it is....theres no white al sharpton

honestly, even though i think zimmerman was in the wrong, i do not believe it to be race related.....i see it as a guy who thought he was a neighborhood cop and took his false sense of authority too far

Edited April 12, 2012 by Steve Butters

[magley64]

Not if he assaults a 28 yr old man.

Yes, still a kid to me, maybe a kid that needed his ass beat, but a kid nonetheless...

And I have no respect for anyone who pulls a gun during a fist fight.

[shittygsxr]

Yes, still a kid to me, maybe a kid that needed his ass beat, but a kid nonetheless...

And I have no respect for anyone who pulls a gun during a fist fight.

I thought I was the only one that checked ID's before a fight.

[crb]

Yes, still a kid to me, maybe a kid that needed his ass beat, but a kid nonetheless...

And I have no respect for anyone who pulls a gun during a fist fight.

Don't respect me, I don't care my life's in danger I'm drawing! I don't fight and if I'm forced into it you bet I will use every tool to my advantage gun, knife, rock, brick, big heavy object, etc. That said you wont see me getting out of truck and following you. I have a weapon to level the playing field. I'm a pussy so what? I am what I eat!

[crb]

i have seen plenty of martin/zimmerman

and nobody gives a damn about that story because its just a white kid .... theres no white organizations to make a huge stink about it like there are black ones when these events happen....sorry if that sounds racist, but it is what it is....theres no white al sharpton

honestly, even though i think zimmerman was in the wrong, i do not believe it to be race related.....i see it as a guy who thought he was a neighborhood cop and took his false sense of authority too far

Was Martin wrong for attacking Zimmerman? Assuming Zimmerman was only following him and did not draw his weapon?

[Steve Butters]

Was Martin wrong for attacking Zimmerman? Assuming Zimmerman was only following him and did not draw his weapon?

yes, they were both in the wrong.

zimmerman should not have been following him, and martin should not have attacked zimmerman, regardless of what zimmerman said or did to him.

if martin was alive - i would lock them both up.

zimmerman instigated the situation by following martin and starting a confrontation. martin was wrong to attack the guy, but i have a hard time believing it was "unprovoked" like most of you guys seem to think it was.

if both survived the confrontation and say zimmerman got an assbeating and then martin went home, i would charge martin for attacking zimmerman (felonious assault?) and i would charge zimmerman for instigating the confrontation (disorderly conduct?) ....not sure if those are the right technical charges, but you understand what im getting at

[magley64]

What if Zimmerman had pulled his weapon and threatened to fire.. thus ending the fisticuffs until the police arrived?

I still don't like it, but it definitely would have been a better option.

[Exarch]

Whats done is done, continuing to argue isnt gunna change it... Im pretty sure we all beat this topic to death by now. he is going to get what he deserves, well what the judge decides rather. But either way he will be dealt with, now weather the decision is in his favor or not we wont know till the case is over with.

[Bad324]

Whats done is done, continuing to argue isnt gunna change it... Im pretty sure we all beat this topic to death by now. he is going to get what he deserves, well what the judge decides rather. But either way he will be dealt with, now weather the decision is in his favor or not we wont know till the case is over with.

bingo!

[Steve Butters]

^ i agree....if someone randomly comes up and starts fucking me up, theyre getting shot.

im not saying if i pick a fight with someone and start losing ill pull a gun, but if someone i dont know just starts attacking me and i feel my life is in danger, you bet your ass im gonna shoot them

reminds me of that guy in dayton who got attacked for no reason while pumping gas....he was fighting it out with the guy, hand to hand...then once the attacker started losing his buddy jumped in with a cheap shot....victim pulled a gun and shot the dude in the gut...his friend ran away....completely justified! and potentially saved the guys life, who knows how far those two guys would have taken it, especially since it turns out the guy who got shot had large amounts of coke in his system

[Bad324]

I'm over the Martin/Zimmerman thing. Now' date=' I'm trying to figure out what is wrong with Magz.[/quote']

it might be easier to figure out whats right with Magz

just kidding bud!